Blaming the BoG Scriptwriter for Toriyama Ideas I Dislike

[Mr.Judge]

Hello Everyone.
This is my First Post and also First thread here on Kanzenshuu Forum.
Before that I was a lurker during the many months leading up to the release of New DBZ: Battle of Gods.



On Topic.
So the new Movie was a bit underwhelming because it deviated from established canon portraying Vegeta in a different light while portraying Goku,Piccolo and Gohan in a sort of Negative Light.

The reasons why it was underwhelming, many of you might ask?
A)
i - Whis making a Mistake Saying Goku Killed Frieza Instead of Trunks Killed Frieza.If he Implied Defeated then Whis is right.
ii - Also Shenron/Shenlong Granting only 1 wish instead of 2.
iii - Super Saiyan GOD Transformation Is underwhelming .Also at the end did Goku Absorb the small "sized" attack? when Goku Is known to tank/shrug off all kind Of powerful Attacks when it mattered the most.

B) Gohan the true user of rage boost in DBZ is reduced to fodder levels while the Vegeta who prides himself Temporarily Overpowers Beerus/Birusu/Beers/Bills with unique hybrid traits who resort to Rage boost .

C) Goku who is calculating during battle and usually restrains himself from doing Unnecessary collateral damage Becomes Hay-wire Vegeta and destroys King Kai Planet unnecessarily.

D) Beerus Implying Goku in Weak in base compared to Frieza Automatically implies Super Namek Piccolo(Fused with Kami) > Base Goku, making the SSJ Multipliers Greater than they are.

E) Vegeta Putting a better Fight than SSJ3 Goku or Mystic Gohan reduces the impact of these very powerful transformations.

F) Beerus Implies he can destroy the Solar system Like Super Perfect Cell, Doesn't make for any new and exciting scenario. Nor does size of Attack reaches the Size of the Sun to casually destroy the solar system or seemingly threaten the solar system.


May be Due to Japan earthquake which preceded the movie, the next points may be moot.
G) Fights were too restrained and basically Recoome to First Form Frieza-tier to say the least.

H) The threat looming over Z-fighters is never there, So the new movie loses on the dramatic factor of Earlier saga.




All-in-All, the Fights were underwhelming compared to Frieza/Broly saga and definitely lacked the Toriyama /Takao Koyama Touch.


Now the Real reason why This Thread was made.

I)The Theme of Dbz for Goku-Vegeta rivalry.

Low Class Saiyan Goku surpasses the Elite Royal blood Prince Vegeta .
Underdog Goku surpassing Vegeta to Becoming the first Legendary Super Saiyan/Saiya-jin.
Vegeta accepted at the end of saga and comes to term with that Goku was always a Step ahead.



Also The Established canon SSJ Multipliers.
SSJ1 = 50x Base; SSJ2 = 100x Base(2x SSJ1) and Finally SSJ3 = 400x Base(4x SSJ2).

Unlike Saiyan-Hybrid like Gohan using Rage; Full Blooded Saiyans always relied on Techniques,Transformation(Oozaru against Goku),Outside Help(Majin or earrings) and Zenkais to Overpower their Opponents.
Out of Nowhere ; Vegeta Receives a Rage boost without any technique and overshoots his Ki level beyond SSJ3 and Mystic Gohan.
While Rage Boost to transform(Goku) is totally different to Rage boost which temporarily overpower opponents(Gohan) .

Gohan always relied on Rage Boost to Temporarily gain an upper hand in Battles while Vegeta always used his smarts.

If SSJ Multiplier are legit,then Base Vegeta becomes More powerful than even base Goku and base Gohan.
Basically Vegeta becomes Gohan in disguise.
This part reeks of Yusuke Watanable favoritism of Vegeta.


II) Vegeta Rage boost causes Red Herring that leads Viewers/Fans towards a false conclusion that Vegeta Is Superior to Goku when he was always meant to be lagging behind Goku in the all instances throughout the entirety of DBZ.

Vegeta using his Royal blood as a motivation as basis of Justification to Surpass Goku.
and Eventually Vegeta Royal blood succeeds Because Yusuke Watanabe favors Vegeta.
Does This imply Goku Never Trains But Vegeta keeps on Training after Buu saga ?
But Goku Makes a contradictory statement earlier in the movie When he claims he wont let the 'Strongest in the universe Title' so easily during his First encounter With Hakaishin Beerus.
Also Goku Trains For the Arrival of Kid Buu in Human Form.

Now there are rumors are to be believed, next Dbz movie has Vegeta in the lead.

Basically Yusuke Watanable is Corrupting the established Canon of Dbz Franchise by Obscuring The Original Toriyama vision Of DBZ and this/these new Movie/Movies seem to be heading the same direction as DBGT.

About Toriyam Vision,
Takao Koyama respected and adhered to Akira Toriyama Vision and this is reflected in theThe World’s Best Round-Table Discussion Akira Toriyama × Takao Koyama × Masako Nozawa Interview

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ma-nozawa/


If Yusuke Watanabe is at the helm of the Next Movie, then Is Yusuke Watanabe Going to let his Favoritism seep into the next movie and show Goku/Gohan/Piccolo in more Negative light while Portraying the Royal Blood Vegeta to lead the way for low class Goku to Follow?



Do You Agree? If NOT Please Feel free to point out the Errors .I Will definitely reply in 2-3 days time and If Proven Wrong Will gracefully accept the Fact that I am Wrong.


ALSO
So Does Akira Toriyama have an account on Twitter? Since Most Japanese artists/developers use it staying In Touch With the True Fans?

[kei17]

Almost everything in BoG was written by Toriyama himself. Also, what is "The Original Toriyama vision Of DBZ"? There's nothing like that.

Anyway, do strengths really matter?

[thatdbzguy]

I always read that guy's last name as "Wanna-be".

[TheGreatness25]

Oh I came up with an entire list of what's wrong with the movie.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH BATTLE OF GODS

• Kaioshin, Elder Kaioshin, and Kaio talk about how Beerus is awake before he is actually awake. They should have moved the awakening scene to be the first scene of the movie.
• Wasn’t Kaio’s world destroyed and he didn’t get it back by the end of Z?
• Beerus has an alarm to wake himself up, even though it is revealed that he gets knocked out by Whis. Does he know he’s going to get knocked out by him?
• Beerus asked Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta for him? So it wasn’t because Freeza was concerned with the Saiyans’ power getting out of control? Also, why would the deity of destruction ask some random person to destroy a planet for him? Even if it was “far away”, Beerus still traveled to the Kaio world and Earth. I guess those weren’t far away? How did he meet Freeza to have this done? He was on Planet Vegeta eating food, he didn't decide to destroy it then? Whatever, it doesn’t make sense.
• What the hell is Seer? A clumsy, forgetful, silly fish in a bowl who predicts things?
• TV anime reference. Cheap.
• Kuririn looks like he’s a school boy. And doesn’t look anything like he did two years before that.
• Vegeta was at the party after the Majin Boo battle, but didn’t make his wife’s birthday because he was training.
• It’s weird to hear Goku being so proper. It’s not that it was done too terribly, but I imagine Goku doesn’t even know how to go about being polite. Can’t imagine him standing straight and correcting himself.
• Don’t know if this is because it was in Japanese, but Goku almost sounded like he had trouble remembering Freeza. “Freeza? Ahh…” I could be wrong on this one, but that’s how it sounded.
• Recreation of the iconic scene where Goku demonstrates Super Saiyan 3. Unnecessary and looks like it’s done to make fans go, “Ooh”.
• Goku has no problem destroying Kaio’s planet. Even for him, that’s jerkish.
• Vegeta still does the same training he did before the Artificial Humans. At what point does his strength get to a level where this is useless? Kind of like lifting a 3 lb weight if you can lift 100 lbs.
• Kaio telling Vegeta that the fate of the world rests with him. LOL moment. Kaio should know better.
• Suddenly Vegeta has a widow’s peak as a kid where he didn’t have one before.
• What was the purpose of making Pilaf, Shuu, and Mai little kids? So they actually gathered the Dragon Balls? And they actually collected the Dragon Balls and didn’t ask for world domination or immortality or something? And what happened to the second wish? Was this before Dende became the new Kami? So many questions.
• Dragon Balls aren’t glowing despite being all together.
• Trunks and Goten look like they did two years before that, if not younger.
• Bulma doesn’t remember Pilaf or Shuu?
• Goku actually thinks that practicing firing his Kamehame-Ha in base form is going to somehow help him gauge how he’ll stack up against Beerus who knocked him out with a touch?
• Gohan reveals he’s the Great Saiyaman to three random strangers? And he’s using the disguise from the Tenkaichi Tournament? What happened to the helmet? And he ripped his clothes off for it instead of using the watch? Downgrade!
• Does Mr. Satan really not know that Dende is Kami after all that time? Not even after them surviving Boo together? Really?
• Dende says that Videl is pregnant. Impregnable logic, except Pan isn’t to be born for another 3 years (if the math adds up, after all, 39 years after Goku is born would put the year at 776 AD, the Boo fight was 774 AD and Pan was born 779 AD according to the official timeline).
• Vegeta is a clown…
• Nobody decided that the “kids” having a real gun was weird? That plus them trying to steal the Dragon Ball wouldn’t warrant them to get kicked out?
• LOL at Piccolo giving a crap about the bingo tournament.
• R.I.P. Piccolo’s character development.
• Gohan went from leisurely attire to Great Saiyaman attire to fighting gi? Really? This guy really plans for any event!
• Bulma’s 38th birthday? That would mean that the year is 771 AD. Shouldn’t it be her 43rd? Though I do guess that it was alluded to as an inconsistency with her age based on the others’ reaction. But then again, at the end when Oolong mentions it, I can’t tell if Bulma is agitated because 38 is old or because Oolong is being sarcastic.
• Vegeta as a Super Saiyan “surpassed” Goku just because he got angry? LOL moment of the movie. He gets angry and suddenly has a burst of power like that? Really? That’s just silly. That’s like saying Vegeta surpassed Super Saiyan 2 Gohan during the Cell Games because he got mad that Trunks died. Same scenario, apparently different results.
• Beerus slaps Bulma and she’s fine a moment later?
• FARMER IS ALIVE!?!?
• One wish? Are we sure it isn’t supposed to be two?
• Gohan looked like he achieved his Elder Kaioshin form earlier, but is now Super Saiyan. I guess that age old GT argument goes out the window. Thankfully I was okay with him as Super Saiyan in GT. I can only imagine what diehard GT haters think after this, having argued the Super Saiyan Gohan inconsistency for so long.
• Hooray for the genius Bulma to think a cell phone would work across to other planets.
• So a fetus, despite the argument about whether it even has any useful energy in the first place, is able to voluntarily transfer energy from inside a womb? And that energy is very helpful too. No questions here.
• So gods are thinner? That does not explain any of the Kaios or Kaioshin.
• Goku stops being Super Saiyan God and isn’t killed when Beerus hits him several times at more power than he used to knock him out with one touch before?
• Supposedly Goku absorbed Super Saiyan God powers into his regular body, BUT wouldn’t the others notice the astronomical difference in his Ki?
• Beerus sleeps for decades at a time, there is no way for the Earthlings to communicate with him… Why are they talking about invites to the next party?
• So Mai is really okay with being Trunks’ girlfriend? For real? Blushing and giggling? Really?
• I’m suuuure Vegeta surpassed Goku by being an angry Super Saiyan. After all, Goku is able to achieve Super Saiyan 3 and has been doing godly training while Vegeta can’t reach past Super Saiyan 2 and toys around with robots that shoot laser beams at him. I’m so sure that Vegeta surpassed Goku when he was mad…
• Goku arriving at the scene early but not doing anything about it because he was trying to put together a “strategy” sounds like the smarter Goku that fans complain about was his portrayal in the dub. Then again, chilling and letting people get hurt is more jerky for Goku than usual
• The CGI backgrounds are terrible. There are times where the characters look great, this new art style isn’t so kind to backgrounds or details.

[Mr.Judge]

Almost everything in BoG was written by Toriyama himself. Also, what is "The Original Toriyama vision Of DBZ"? There's nothing like that.

Anyway, do strengths really matter?

1)
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/27/sc ... name-puns/
A recent interview with Yūsuke Watanabe, the scriptwriter for the upcoming Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods film...

Also
Originally printed on page 8 of Weekly Shōnen Jump issue 2013 #17 (released 25 March 2013) in Japan. While Akira Toriyama certainly worked on the story — in a larger capacity than ever before with the franchise — the actual script for the film was written by Yūsuke Watanabe.

2)
Strength Tier Matters Because It keeps the SSJ transformations relevant and It also affects the Enjoyment for some of the Fans.

[TheGreatness25]

Truthfully, it doesn't matter who wrote it. If I make a story and then in 20 years have a sequel that has 30 inconsistencies with the original story, then the people who have been fans for 20 years have the right to be pissed. It shouldn't work where, "Oh, some guy named Yusuke Watanabe crapped all over the Dragon Ball franchise! I hate him!" and then snap back to, "Oh, it was Akria Toriyama. Well in that case, <3!" It doesn't matter who wrote it, what matters is that it's something that has way too many inconsistencies with the original series that has existed for 20 years. There have always been certain things that we always knew about the series and this movie cripples a lot of those things. That's 20 years of fandom pretty much laid waste to. If tomorrow a new DBZ movie comes out that shows Gohan waking up the day of the Cell Games and everything that came after turned out to be just a dream, would you accept that too just because Akira Toriyama put his name to it? Honestly, I don't want to go down this route, but this project seemed like a payday. I see no other reason for it. If he wanted to revisit the characters, I would have hoped that he'd research his own work a little better.

Like all these specials that came out with Bardock and the 40th Jump anniversary. They are also inconsistent with the story. Oh okay, now Vegeta has a brother. Oh okay, now Bardock's a great guy suddenly! Oh yeah he goes back 1,000 years! He must be the Great Ape Super Saiyan that Vegeta was talking about, even though he could only do it as Great Ape. I feel like it's all for a payday. Now Goku's mom is going to be introduced? Suddenly Bardock's character changes again? Thought he was selfish and uncaring about anyone. Thought that he didn't care about his own son. Thought that he didn't think of anyone but himself when Planet Vageta was being destroyed. Oh but it's okay because NOW it turns out that he had a very rare wonderful love with Goku's mom. Oh god, please. He had such a wonderful love with her that he never thought about her before.

And I don't care who writes it, designs it, animates it, whatever. I don't have time or patience to follow this, nor does it matter. All respects go to Akira Toriyama, but if he's butchering his own work, as someone who has helped make him and Toei (and FUNimation for that matter) A LOT of money, I think I have the right to call bullshit. I may not have the right to tell him which direction to go or which characters to spotlight, but I do have the right to say, "Oh wait, you forgot about this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and that, that, and that doesn't make any damn sense!"

[thatdbzguy]

Oh I came up with an entire list of what's wrong with the movie.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH BATTLE OF GODS

• Kaioshin, Elder Kaioshin, and Kaio talk about how Beerus is awake before he is actually awake. They should have moved the awakening scene to be the first scene of the movie.
• Wasn’t Kaio’s world destroyed and he didn’t get it back by the end of Z?
• Beerus has an alarm to wake himself up, even though it is revealed that he gets knocked out by Whis. Does he know he’s going to get knocked out by him?
• Beerus asked Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta for him? So it wasn’t because Freeza was concerned with the Saiyans’ power getting out of control? Also, why would the deity of destruction ask some random person to destroy a planet for him? Even if it was “far away”, Beerus still traveled to the Kaio world and Earth. I guess those weren’t far away? How did he meet Freeza to have this done? He was on Planet Vegeta eating food, he didn't decide to destroy it then? Whatever, it doesn’t make sense.
• What the hell is Seer? A clumsy, forgetful, silly fish in a bowl who predicts things?
• TV anime reference. Cheap.
• Kuririn looks like he’s a school boy. And doesn’t look anything like he did two years before that.
• Vegeta was at the party after the Majin Boo battle, but didn’t make his wife’s birthday because he was training.
• It’s weird to hear Goku being so proper. It’s not that it was done too terribly, but I imagine Goku doesn’t even know how to go about being polite. Can’t imagine him standing straight and correcting himself.
• Don’t know if this is because it was in Japanese, but Goku almost sounded like he had trouble remembering Freeza. “Freeza? Ahh…” I could be wrong on this one, but that’s how it sounded.
• Recreation of the iconic scene where Goku demonstrates Super Saiyan 3. Unnecessary and looks like it’s done to make fans go, “Ooh”.
• Goku has no problem destroying Kaio’s planet. Even for him, that’s jerkish.
• Vegeta still does the same training he did before the Artificial Humans. At what point does his strength get to a level where this is useless? Kind of like lifting a 3 lb weight if you can lift 100 lbs.
• Kaio telling Vegeta that the fate of the world rests with him. LOL moment. Kaio should know better.
• Suddenly Vegeta has a widow’s peak as a kid where he didn’t have one before.
• What was the purpose of making Pilaf, Shuu, and Mai little kids? So they actually gathered the Dragon Balls? And they actually collected the Dragon Balls and didn’t ask for world domination or immortality or something? And what happened to the second wish? Was this before Dende became the new Kami? So many questions.
• Dragon Balls aren’t glowing despite being all together.
• Trunks and Goten look like they did two years before that, if not younger.
• Bulma doesn’t remember Pilaf or Shuu?
• Goku actually thinks that practicing firing his Kamehame-Ha in base form is going to somehow help him gauge how he’ll stack up against Beerus who knocked him out with a touch?
• Gohan reveals he’s the Great Saiyaman to three random strangers? And he’s using the disguise from the Tenkaichi Tournament? What happened to the helmet? And he ripped his clothes off for it instead of using the watch? Downgrade!
• Does Mr. Satan really not know that Dende is Kami after all that time? Not even after them surviving Boo together? Really?
• Dende says that Videl is pregnant. Impregnable logic, except Pan isn’t to be born for another 3 years (if the math adds up, after all, 39 years after Goku is born would put the year at 776 AD, the Boo fight was 774 AD and Pan was born 779 AD according to the official timeline).
• Vegeta is a clown…
• Nobody decided that the “kids” having a real gun was weird? That plus them trying to steal the Dragon Ball wouldn’t warrant them to get kicked out?
• LOL at Piccolo giving a crap about the bingo tournament.
• R.I.P. Piccolo’s character development.
• Gohan went from leisurely attire to Great Saiyaman attire to fighting gi? Really? This guy really plans for any event!
• Bulma’s 38th birthday? That would mean that the year is 771 AD. Shouldn’t it be her 43rd? Though I do guess that it was alluded to as an inconsistency with her age based on the others’ reaction. But then again, at the end when Oolong mentions it, I can’t tell if Bulma is agitated because 38 is old or because Oolong is being sarcastic.
• Vegeta as a Super Saiyan “surpassed” Goku just because he got angry? LOL moment of the movie. He gets angry and suddenly has a burst of power like that? Really? That’s just silly. That’s like saying Vegeta surpassed Super Saiyan 2 Gohan during the Cell Games because he got mad that Trunks died. Same scenario, apparently different results.
• Beerus slaps Bulma and she’s fine a moment later?
• FARMER IS ALIVE!?!?
• One wish? Are we sure it isn’t supposed to be two?
• Gohan looked like he achieved his Elder Kaioshin form earlier, but is now Super Saiyan. I guess that age old GT argument goes out the window. Thankfully I was okay with him as Super Saiyan in GT. I can only imagine what diehard GT haters think after this, having argued the Super Saiyan Gohan inconsistency for so long.
• Hooray for the genius Bulma to think a cell phone would work across to other planets.
• So a fetus, despite the argument about whether it even has any useful energy in the first place, is able to voluntarily transfer energy from inside a womb? And that energy is very helpful too. No questions here.
• So gods are thinner? That does not explain any of the Kaios or Kaioshin.
• Goku stops being Super Saiyan God and isn’t killed when Beerus hits him several times at more power than he used to knock him out with one touch before?
• Supposedly Goku absorbed Super Saiyan God powers into his regular body, BUT wouldn’t the others notice the astronomical difference in his Ki?
• Beerus sleeps for decades at a time, there is no way for the Earthlings to communicate with him… Why are they talking about invites to the next party?
• So Mai is really okay with being Trunks’ girlfriend? For real? Blushing and giggling? Really?
• I’m suuuure Vegeta surpassed Goku by being an angry Super Saiyan. After all, Goku is able to achieve Super Saiyan 3 and has been doing godly training while Vegeta can’t reach past Super Saiyan 2 and toys around with robots that shoot laser beams at him. I’m so sure that Vegeta surpassed Goku when he was mad…
• Goku arriving at the scene early but not doing anything about it because he was trying to put together a “strategy” sounds like the smarter Goku that fans complain about was his portrayal in the dub. Then again, chilling and letting people get hurt is more jerky for Goku than usual
• The CGI backgrounds are terrible. There are times where the characters look great, this new art style isn’t so kind to backgrounds or details.

I'd like to add that I thought Goku giving up against Beerus was completely OOC. Whenever someone threatened to destroy Earth or his friends, Goku never gave up, regardless of how much more powerful the villain was than him. (Except against Cell, but that was different since he still had Gohan to rely on).

[kei17]

A)
i - Whis making a Mistake Saying Goku Killed Freeza Instead of Trunks Killed Freeza.If he Implied Defeated then Whis is right.
ii - Also Shenron/Shenlong Granting only 1 wish instead of 2.
iii - Super Saiyan GOD Transformation Is underwhelming. Also at the end did Goku Absorb the small "sized" attack? when Goku Is known to tank/shrug off all kind Of powerful Attacks when it mattered the most.

i - He clearly says "Furiiza wa taosare mashita", which means "Freeza was defeated". You watched the movie with some illegal fansubs, didn't you?
ii - Shenlong might have granted one wish shortly before the time BoG takes place in.
iii - How is it underwhelming? Just saying it's underwhelming doesn't bring anything to the table.

*Some boring strength nonsense snipped*

G) Fights were too restrained and basically Recoome to First Form Frieza-tier to say the least.
H) The threat looming over Z-fighters is never there, So the new movie loses on the dramatic factor of Earlier saga.

G - Toriyama said he had purposely avoided collapse of buildings because of the earth quake in 2011.
H - There were more fights of other fighters in Toriyama's original story and they were still included in the storyboard, but later they were edited out because of the screen time. It's not the scriptwriter's fault.

Some reeeeaaaallly boring statements on strengths

So, what's the canon?

• Kaioshin, Elder Kaioshin, and Kaio talk about how Beerus is awake before he is actually awake. They should have moved the awakening scene to be the first scene of the movie.

What's wrong with showing something happened earlier? Also, maybe they just foresaw his awakening.

• Wasn’t Kaio’s world destroyed and he didn’t get it back by the end of Z?

We don't know for sure. He might have recreated it earlier.

• Beerus asked Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta for him?

He never says so in the movie.

• The CGI backgrounds are terrible. There are times where the characters look great, this new art style isn’t so kind to backgrounds or details.

Agreed. CGI could have been used more effectively.


Everything else you stated is pointless or plain wrong.

[Mr.Judge]

Oh I came up with an entire list of what's wrong with the movie.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH BATTLE OF GODS

• Various Relevant Points and some Inconsistencies

Those things you pointed out are relevant but Some Inconsistencies can be attributed to Akira Toriyama And the entire team who made DBZ:BOG being out of touch with the Franchise for Decades and Also Akira Toriyama wrote by the seats of his pants and keeps on forgetting his characters during the later sagas.
Above Conclusion was drawn from various Interviews here on Kanzenshuu and Basic Observations over a period of Time Reading Manga, BOG Thread here and Watching Anime/Movies.

Notable Examples:
1) Kid Goku/Kuririn Push Boulder of around 1000 tons During Kame-Sennin training buts only wears around 200 kg worth of Clothing and has trouble lifting 40 tons in Buu Saga.
2) Akira Toriyama's Knowledge about Weight Bound Training is not up-to mark because to casually Leap into clouds, kid Goku And Kuririn needs to train with around 1000 Tons of single Turtle shell on their Back and not 20kg.
3) Humans, according to Guinness record can only jump to around 3 feet vertically but can definitely carry more than 20kg on their back.
4) Vegeta's Artificial Gravity Training are Useless/baseless as 20kg Turtle Shell because they need to train on Neutron Stars With Gravity 300 Billion Times Earth gravity considering they are dealing with and handling Solar system Destroying Worth of power.

I would Rather not go in the discussion about DBZ's Gravity training and Akira Toriyama Knowledge about Gravity Training because he clearly contradicts on panel info with some random weight number.
And I have Accepted Akira Toriyama is definitely Not good with Numbers like Age, Gravity, Power Level, Weights.

So basically I don't want Yusuke Watanabe Favoritism affecting the next movie if he is at the helm.

[TheGreatness25]

• Kaioshin, Elder Kaioshin, and Kaio talk about how Beerus is awake before he is actually awake. They should have moved the awakening scene to be the first scene of the movie.

What's wrong with showing something happened earlier? Also, maybe they just foresaw his awakening.

Well this was my nitpicking, but I still do feel that it could have easily been fixed by simply reworking the scenes.

• Wasn’t Kaio’s world destroyed and he didn’t get it back by the end of Z?

We don't know for sure. He might have recreated it earlier.

Might have. MIGHT have. But didn't. Especially when Beerus and Whis come onto the planet talking about how Beerus made his planet small, which means that it's the same planet from before. Or did Kaio make a wish upon the Dragon Balls to have his planet restored?

• Beerus asked Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta for him?

He never says so in the movie.

Beerus: "By the way, Whis, while I was asleep, did Freeza destroy Planet Vegeta for me? ... ... ... I would have been happy to destroy them, too, but their world is so far away, you know?"
Saying, "for me" in there alludes to him asking Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta. Even if it doesn't, which I guess I can see where you're coming from, the inconsistency that exists in THIS VERY MOVIE is that Beerus was at Planet Vegeta himself, then says, "Oh yeah I wanted it destroyed but it was so far away despite me being on it. I guess I could have destroyed it while I was there, but I decided to go away and hope that Freeza does it for me."

Everything else you stated is pointless or plain wrong.

Your opinion about the "pointless". I would like you to point out what I'm wrong about though.

[Mr.Judge]

disrespecting a post by calling it boring but whatever

1)I don't care about collateral damage on Earth.
because there was always a Hakaishin realm to fall back to with many Planets which Beerus did Destroy at the End of Movie .
Yet that Scene is Underwhelming Because Frieza while seating his chair In Anime Special Destroyed Planet Vegeta with his single finger. Akira Toriyama even gave that special, a canon status by introducing or redrawing some of those scenes in Manga panels.

2)I think I pointed out that it may be Due to Japanese Earthquake.

3)Canon is and was always Base Goku > Base Vegeta. Majin Boost was what made Vegeta relevant against SSJ2 Goku.
There is no Such things As rage boost For Full-Blooded Saiyans . SSJ2 can Never Surpass SSJ3 and Mystic Form.

And Going By established DBZ canon, Low class Goku > Royal Blood Vegeta.
Vegeta uses strategies,smarts,trains because of Goku and resorts to Unfair tactics to gain Upper hand While Goku uses Hard-work/Trained,Various techniques, Determination and his observations of techniques and Opponents to overcome Opponents.

[kei17]

• Kaioshin, Elder Kaioshin, and Kaio talk about how Beerus is awake before he is actually awake. They should have moved the awakening scene to be the first scene of the movie.

What's wrong with showing something happened earlier? Also, maybe they just foresaw his awakening.

Well this was my nitpicking, but I still do feel that it could have easily been fixed by simply reworking the scenes.

Considering that BoG is the first Dragon Ball movie in 17 years, showing the characters audiences are familiar with first makes sense.

• Wasn’t Kaio’s world destroyed and he didn’t get it back by the end of Z?

We don't know for sure. He might have recreated it earlier.

Might have. MIGHT have. But didn't. Especially when Beerus and Whis come onto the planet talking about how Beerus made his planet small, which means that it's the same planet from before. Or did Kaio make a wish upon the Dragon Balls to have his planet restored?

How do you know that he didn't? Also, he might have just recreated exactly the same thing himself.

Beerus: "By the way, Whis, while I was asleep, did Freeza destroy Planet Vegeta for me? ... ... ... I would have been happy to destroy them, too, but their world is so far away, you know?"
Saying, "for me" in there alludes to him asking Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta.

"For me" isn't in the original Japanese script.

Even if it doesn't, which I guess I can see where you're coming from, the inconsistency that exists in THIS VERY MOVIE is that Beerus was at Planet Vegeta himself, then says, "Oh yeah I wanted it destroyed but it was so far away."

Maybe that was the first time for him to visit Planet Vegeta and thought of destroying it later. You're just trying to create "inconsistencies" yourself to nitpick the story.

Everything else you stated is pointless or plain wrong.

Your opinion about the "pointless". I would like you to point out what I'm wrong about though.

By "pointless statements", I mean something like "Bulma not remembering the Pilaf gang". So what? Why should she remember them? She could forget them within decades, and that's not an inconsistency. Again, to me, you seem to be just trying to create inconsistencies from nothing to bash the movie no matter what.

While Akira Toriyama certainly worked on the story — in a larger capacity than ever before with the franchise — the actual script for the film was written by Yūsuke Watanabe.

From what I know, Watanabe said he had done nearly nothing because Toriyama's modified "draft" which was sent back to him was an almost complete screenplay and it was entirely different from what Watanabe sent him except for some ideas like Beerus, Super Saiyan God, and having a party.

[TheGreatness25]

Alright, you can think that Bulma not remembering the first major villain that tried killing her is me nitpicking to create inconsistencies, but how about the ages? How about Bulma's age? Or Videl being pregnant not matching the official timeline? How about the Dragon Balls granting one wish and not two? How about Satan not knowing who Dende is? How about those things?

It may seem to you like I'm "looking for inconsistencies," but you're doing the same thing in reverse. "Well maybe Kaio did wish his planet back with the Dragon Balls." I very much highly doubt it.

[Patrick]

I was always under the impression that Bulma was lying about her age, much like most middle-age women do.

[Hujio]

Beerus: "By the way, Whis, while I was asleep, did Freeza destroy Planet Vegeta for me? ... ... ... I would have been happy to destroy them, too, but their world is so far away, you know?"
Saying, "for me" in there alludes to him asking Freeza to destroy Planet Vegeta. Even if it doesn't, which I guess I can see where you're coming from, the inconsistency that exists in THIS VERY MOVIE is that Beerus was at Planet Vegeta himself, then says, "Oh yeah I wanted it destroyed but it was so far away despite me being on it. I guess I could have destroyed it while I was there, but I decided to go away and hope that Freeza does it for me."

I don't have much time to address all of the misinformation being thrown around in this thread so far, but I will pop in to say... That entire line of dialogue you just quoted, is not in the movie. Beerus merely asks Whis if Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta. There's no "for me" anywhere in there, he was just asking if it happened.

And secondly, to blame all this on Yusuke Watanabe seems like such a huge stretch to me. Yes, he's listed as the scriptwriter, but as we've discussed and documented ad nauseam on the website, Toriyama pretty much wrote the entire movie. Don't like Super Saiyan God? That was all Toriyama. Yeah Watanabe came up with the idea of having one, but the final result of it was all Toriyama's doing, especially its design.

[TheGreatness25]

I pulled that dialog from the Blu-ray English subs. If the "for me" line isn't there, I'm still sticking by what I said about him wanting it destroyed, but deciding to leave it alone and hope that Freeza destroys it himself. If that entire dialog isn't there, where he says about how he would have destroyed it himself but it was too far away, then whoever did the subs on that freaking Blu-ray is horrible. I am really sure that the blu-ray is official too.

[Mr.Judge]

I admit I made The mistake of blaming the design Of Super Saiyan god on Yusuke Watanabe instead Of Akira Toriyama.

But Yusuke Watanabe being the Vegeta fan , his vision definitely created a red herring which leads viewers towards a false conclusion that now Vegeta has access to rage boost and he can surpass Goku/Gohan.

[Ajay]

The Hong Kong Blu-ray's subs aren't the greatest, no. I wouldn't take them too seriously. They're serviceable for enjoying the film but you'll notice a great deal of difference once Funimation's release comes out.

[TheGreatness25]

*Kicks Battle of Gods Blu-ray out the window* lol

Alright. Well for me, that's one down, but a lot more to go. Like the one wish thing. I mean that's hard to blame on the subs. And if they got the time right (how many years after Planet Vegeta's destruction it is), then Videl's pregnancy is also BS. The Pan fetus being of any use is also kinda silly. And the kid versions of Pilaf and his crew definitely don't make sense. What was the excuse instead of wishing for world domination? What I wrote about Gohan's Saiyaman thing is still in effect too. I don't know, the movie seemed off.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it a lot more than anything else that came out in recent memory, but I don't exactly hold Battle of Gods up to be "OMG super awesome!!!" I think there are a lot of inconsistencies and feel like the story should at least be researched better. Especially when it's so easy to do! Just read the damn manga again. Don't even gotta read the whole thing, just like half of it to catch up. And it's not like it takes long. I read the whole manga in like a couple of weeks. And I'm a busy guy. Work, school, a social life. It's not like I was sitting at home reading it non-stop, but it still didn't take me long.

I feel like before they start trying to sell a DBZ movie, they should at least put some work into making it flow with the rest of the story. It's just that these things I pointed out are really hard for me to get over. I wouldn't pay attention to something like Videl's pregnancy without digging further, but the one wish instead of two thing is just obvious.

[kei17]

How about Bulma's age? Or Videl being pregnant not matching the official timeline? How about the Dragon Balls granting one wish and not two? How about Satan not knowing who Dende is?

I'm not familiar with timeline things, but as for Bulma's age, I'm pretty sure that Bulma was lying about her age as Patrick stated. Look at Yamcha's reaction.

How about the Dragon Balls granting one wish and not two? How about Satan not knowing who Dende is?

As I stated above, Shenlong might have granted one wish shortly before the time BoG takes place in. As for Mr. Satan not knowing Dende, I think that that's because Toriyama simply forgot that. So yeah, it might be an inconsistency.

It may seem to you like I'm "looking for inconsistencies," but you're doing the same thing in reverse. "Well maybe Kaio did wish his planet back with the Dragon Balls." I very much highly doubt it.

The planet is there. That's the fact. I just showed some examples of how it can be explained in many ways. Also, I didn't refer to the Dragon Balls myself at all. That's your idea.

And if they got the time right (how many years after Planet Vegeta's destruction it is), then Videl's pregnancy is also BS. The Pan fetus being of any use is also kinda silly.

Just saying that they're bullshit or silly doesn't bring anything to the table. Why do you think so? That's what we should discuss here.

And the kid versions of Pilaf and his crew definitely don't make sense. What was the excuse instead of wishing for world domination?

Pilaf does refer to the reason in the movie.

What I wrote about Gohan's Saiyaman thing is still in effect too. I don't know, the movie seemed off.

You mean these?

• Gohan reveals he’s the Great Saiyaman to three random strangers? And he’s using the disguise from the Tenkaichi Tournament? What happened to the helmet? And he ripped his clothes off for it ? Downgrade!

• Gohan went from leisurely attire to Great Saiyaman attire to fighting gi? Really? This guy really plans for any event!

There is nothing wrong about Gohan revealing that he is Great Saiyaman because HE IS DRUNK. As for the helmet, why does he have to always stick to the same costume? It's as silly as stating that Vegeta's outfit is wrong because of the armor from the Cell arc. They have the freedom to choose their clothes. Also, why did you think that "he had ripped his clothes off for it instead of using the watch"? The depiction is ambiguous that to me it seemed that he used the watch. Quickly changing into dougi is a little sudden as you say, but the watch might be able to store multiple costumes. Its features haven't been explained in detail.


Most of the points you listed are sophistic nitpicks and they're explicable in many ways.