Japanese for the Dragonball fan

[Herms]

I’ve been learning Japanese on and off for a year or so now, and as a fan of Dragonball I have several of the Japanese volumes of the manga. I have had these volumes for several years, long before I knew the first thing about Japanese. It is only now, after having gotten a basic education in the language that I have started seriously trying to read them. Obviously, I’m not really at the level where I can fully understand everything yet. I have also noticed that many members of this board have expressed an interest in learning Japanese so that they could read the original Japanese manga or watch the anime without subtitles, and the other day I got the idea for the project I would like to propose

One of the problems in reading the Dragonball manga in the original Japanese for someone like me is that there are many things that you simply can’t look up in conventional dictionaries and textbooks, such as slang words and the various dialects used by the characters. Obviously this sort of thing is common to any part of Japanese culture that a non-native speaker will encounter, but since this is a board dedicated to Dragonball, I thought we might try to do something to remedy this problem in our shared area of interest.

I know that there are many members of this board who have an extensive knowledge of Japanese, as well as many others who like me are beginners trying to gain a greater understanding of the language. I think we have a large enough pool of knowledge to draw on to create something which would be of aid to the people on this board and elsewhere who wish to experience Dragonball in its original language.

Now, every textbook for every foreign language has a chapter devoted to various important aspects of daily life. There are chapters which detail the sort of vocabulary and sentence constructions you need to know when going to a restaurant or shopping or introducing yourself. My idea is to create something in that vein, but for Dragonball. Basically, what does one need to know to read (or watch) Dragonball that they won’t learn from a basic textbook?

Anyone with any piece of information that they think is in line with the above criteria is free to post it here. You don’t have to be fluent in Japanese or any such thing. If you know a Japanese swear word or some bit of Japanese martial arts terminology, that would be perfect. And of course, if any of the members here who are very knowledgeable of Japanese would like to submit something a bit more in-depth, I would be thrilled. If we manage to collect enough information on this thread, I would like to edit it all together into a more organized document.

I should make an important clarification and note that my intention is to form a guide that will act as a supplement to a beginner’s education in Japanese, and not as a guide to basic Japanese itself. So an explanation of the correct usage of the particle “wa” would be out of place, but information on the particles “zo” and “ze” would be appropriate, since that is the sort of thing that is not often taught in introductory courses in Japanese but is fairly important to know when reading Dragonball.

Anyway, I think that about sums up what I’m looking for. I’d greatly appreciate any and all ideas from any of you!

[SaiyaJedi]

Sounds like an awfully ambitious project, but I could offer some things.

Goku's dialect isn't particularly hard to understand, as long as you remember a few things about the way he talks:

1. Goku always refers to himself as "ora" (a modified version of "ore," the masculine-assertive "I" pronoun), and generally uses coarse (though not abusive) direct-style language.
2. The "dialect" Goku speaks is similar to that spoken in the Tohoku region, in that the diphthongs "ai," "ae," and "oi" often get turned into "ee" (cf. "omee" instead of "omae"), though he doesn't seem to confuse "u" and "i" as people from Tohoku are prone to do, nor does he seem to use a lot of region-specific vocabulary (or at least, I don't think he does). He does use "na" instead of "ne," but that seems to be fairly universal in casual male speech.
3. Subtlety, thy name is not Son Goku. A lot of the comedy in Goku's delivery is that he says completely inappropriate things at completely appropriate times. In other words, Goku says what he thinks when he should either shut his mouth or couch it in euphemistic expressions (which he never uses). He also uses blunt, direct-style speech to everyone, which you just don't do in Japan (though younger people are far more tolerant of this than those over 30).

And here are a few things to remember while parsing the speech of the more elderly folks (like Kame-Sen'nin and Kaiô-sama):

1. The direct-style copula "da" (contracted from "de aru") is consistently modified to "ja," though words containing the phoneme "da" are not affected in this way.
2. The gerund-continuative auxiliary verb is "oru," rather than "iru" (in standard speech, "oru" is only used this way in humble form). The resulting contraction ("~te'ru" in standard Japanese) becomes "~t'oru."
3. Lastly, a note about individual variations. Kame-Sen'nin sometimes throws an English word or two into his sentences here and there (especially at the beginnning of DB), Kaiô-sama is fond of bad puns, and Karin (as I recall) throws a "a piracy website" ("meow") into his talk now and again.

[Socar15]

My Japanese is somewhat limited, but I do have all 42 volumes in Japanese and would be glad to offer scans when needed for reference purposes.

[kenisu3000]

Now this sounds like my kind of Utopia.
There used to be some requests for a section of the site dedicated solely to translating Japanese from DragonBall, but so far, it's gone to naught. I support you whole-heartedly!

[lost in thought]

This would be an excellent thing to have, but I doubt it would be allowed. =/

[Herms]

It’s good to see that I’ve gotten some positive responses so far. I’m very thankful to SaiyaJedi for that extremely useful information on dialects. I remember it taking me forever to figure out why Muten Roshi kept ending everything he said in “ja”.

Anyways, I’ve worked up a rough outline of what I think the final document would look like, with a few examples of the sorts of words I’d be including under each category. This is starting to look rather expansive, but I’d feel comfortable doing the bulk of the work. I’m far from fluent, but I think I can manage. However, I would like to have someone a little more knowledgeable in Japanese to act as a sort of proof-reader, in order to make sure that what I write is accurate, and also to clear up some questions I have on several parts of the language. This might prove something of a demanding job, and I’d hate to impose too much on anyone. Any volunteers?

Of course, anyone who would like to volunteer to write any part of this thing, no matter how small, is welcome and would be greatly appreciated. I think I might also take up Socar15’s offer and incorporate some scans from the manga to use as visual aides.

Here’s my outline:

I. Kanji
A. a few kanji which show up a lot in DB
1. dai
2. ma
3. ou
4. kai
B. the kanji used to write characters’ names
C. the kanji that appears on characters’ clothes, homes, and what-not
D. an explanation of furigana, especially when used to give foreign meanings to kanji

II. Exclamations
A. The most important and over-used expressions in DB
1. Masaka!
2. Shinjirarenai!/Shinjiraren!
3. Bakana!
4. Sugoi!/Sugee!
B. swear-words
1. kuso
2. chikushou
C. insults
1. baka
2. (character name)-me

III. Nouns
A. Fighting and Martial-arts terms
1. budokai
2. taiketsu
3. Generally speaking, the title of every DB fighter since…ever…
B. Space and other Sci-Fi related terms
1. uchuu-jin
2. uchuusen
3. Wakusei-(planet name) and (planet name)-sei
C. Mythology related terms
1. kami
2. mazoku
3. sennin
D. After-life term
1. ano-yo
2. jigoku
3. tengokuE. A bunch of other stuff that I’ll think up later

IV. Verbs
A. transformations and what-not
1. henshin-suru
2. super saiya-jin ni naru
3. gattai-suru
B. fighting verbs (them’s fightin’ words!)
1. tatakau
2. kougeki-suru
C. etc, etc…
V. Ways of speech
A. dialects
1. aspects of the various dialects
2. which characters speak each dialect
B. unique speech characteristics
1. the different forms of “I”, and what they imply about the speaker
2. list of characters and which form of “I” they use
3. the different forms of “you”
4. probably something about the different levels of polite speech
VI. Numbers
A. how 99% of all numbers in DB are written with Arabic numerals
B. um…the numbers of the Dragonballs being in Chinese…
C. that’s pretty much it

VII. Anything else
A. “yatsu” has got to get mentioned somewhere or another

So there you have it. Any thoughts or opinions? Have I gone completely mad?

[desirecampbell]

I'm kind-of a nut for that kind of stuff - really getting to know what the creator ment when he makes the stuff. That's why I can't watch English dubs anymore, I fear I lose too much in translation. I've even become hessitant of subs when there's not an over abundence of explanitory notes filling up the screen. As such I over analize everything I watch to the point where I don't enjoy it anymore.

What I really want to do is see the original characters, and then explanations on what each one's definition is, how the characters interact with one another to create different words, how some characters mean different things if spoken by different people. I want to know about dialects, when Roshi says "ja" I want to know why he says it.

Especially in Toriyama's work, with it's multiple linguistic levels. Like the incident with "Suppa Man" and General Blue (might have been filer, I can't remember. anyway...) Suppa Man is clearly a charicature of Super-Man, but it goes beyond that - he eats a sour pickle (or "suppa") to gain his 'powers'... or somthing like that (damn my memory).

It's things like that that add so many layers to the richness of DragonBall that a lot of people miss out on - and I, for one, salute you!

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

A. “yatsu” has got to get mentioned somewhere or another

Isn't yatsu an insulting way to refer to someone?

[Herms]

Sort of. “Yatsu” is a slang way to refer to a person, sort of similar to “guy” or “dude” in English. It can also be used to refer to objects (such as Buu’s antenna), but I’ve never seen a good explanation of when exactly you can use this term. Anyway, it’s very, very common in DB.

[Eclipse]

II. Exclamations
A. The most important and over-used expressions in DB
1. Masaka!
2. Shinjirarenai!/Shinjiraren!
3. Bakana!
4. Sugoi!/Sugee!
B. swear-words
1. kuso
2. chikushou
C. insults
1. baka
2. (character name)-me

Um...I have a question. This might be a little strange, but didn't Goku always say (or maybe said on a usual basis) "Yatta!" as a child? Correct me if I"m wrong, just something I wanted to bring up

[Mr. Robot]

Yatta! means I/you/he/she/etc. did it, but it can also be a pure exclamation of joy.

Oh yeah, guys: I found a truly awesome book for learning Japanese grammar. It's called "Japanese the Manga Way" by Wayne P. Lammers. From the title you might think it wouldn't really be grammar intensive, but I've learned more from this in one week than my entire Japanese class this whole semester.

[Bejiita]

Yatta! means I/you/he/she/etc. did it, but it can also be a pure exclamation of joy.

Oh yeah, guys: I found a truly awesome book for learning Japanese grammar. It's called "Japanese the Manga Way" by Wayne P. Lammers. From the title you might think it wouldn't really be grammar intensive, but I've learned more from this in one week than my entire Japanese class this whole semester.

I also think they say 'yatta' like when we say 'yes!' for achieving something.

I was watching Takeshi's Castle yesterday, and it was the game where they pick a coloured ball that corresponds to a man wearing that coloured suit, well, sumo wrestlers, and somone picked a ball giving him the weakest wrestler and the man said 'Yatta!'. He was bigger...

Either that, or he was claiming victory before winning the actual match by saying 'I've done it' before fighting.

[Mr. Announcer]

yeah, as in all languages there are words with literal meanings that don't exactly correspond to their usage.

Anyway, this seems like a really helpful idea and would probably be very effective in helping anyone read Dragonball since the japanese in it is far from complicated. Just a few key phrases and it's easy to build on.

As for 'yatsu,' it seems that generally it's used to refer to a person who isn't present and can be insulting in certain contexts. As for the whole refering to 'things,' I really have no idea when this can be used.