So do some at Funi have regrets with how DBZ was handled?

[TVfan721]

I found this interesting video from Chris Sabat and Sean Schemmel from 2010 about how Kai was their second chance and how they wanted to prove themselves and so on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlNXhGizk3w

Prove themselves for what though? Do they have regret for how DBZ was handled? Whether you like how Funimation handled DBZ or not, it was a HUGE success in North America and made them very successful. I can understand them wanted to keep Kai more faithful to the Japanese but I don't understand why they felt they had something to prove. It's almost as if some people at Funimation actually took all the online criticism personally.

[ABED]

To an extent. Many of them have said they weren't overly fond of many of the lines they were given. However, it was a job and a foot in the door to something they wanted to do for a living. As for taking the criticism personal, it's easy to say they shouldn't but sometimes the criticism did get personal.

[MagicBox]

FUNimation could have done almost anything to DBZ and it would have been successful in North America (case in point, the dub).

For North America, Kai was about validation. The people who worked on DBZ at FUNi were a bunch of nobodies assembled via newspaper ads in Texas. They had grown a lot since then. Barry Watson was now gone. Kai was their chance to prove that they could actually be good writers/actors/directors from the get-go. You could say that they didn't have to prove anything, but many of us are grateful that they considered Kai to be a "second chance."

[ABED]

FUNimation could have done almost anything to DBZ and it would have been successful in North America (case in point, the dub).

For North America, Kai was about validation. The people who worked on DBZ at FUNi were a bunch of nobodies assembled via newspaper ads in Texas. They had grown a lot since then. Barry Watson was now gone. Kai was their chance to prove that they could actually be good writers/actors/directors from the get-go.

Almost, I think as long as they put it on a good channel in a good timeslot, then you're correct.

[Herms]

Prove themselves for what though? Do they have regret for how DBZ was handled? Whether you like how Funimation handled DBZ or not, it was a HUGE success in North America and made them very successful. I can understand them wanted to keep Kai more faithful to the Japanese but I don't understand why they felt they had something to prove. It's almost as if some people at Funimation actually took all the online criticism personally.

I think as actors they naturally recognize that they were still very new and inexperienced when they started dubbing DBZ, and that they could do a much better job the second time around.

Also, DBZ might have been very successful in the US, but it had already had at least as much success in countless other countries around the world long before Funi came around. So it's not surprising that Funi found success even with an amateurish dub, and it's easy to imagine that they could have achieved even greater success with it had they handled it with their current level of professionalism right from the start.

[GS7X7]

Prove themselves for what though? Do they have regret for how DBZ was handled? Whether you like how Funimation handled DBZ or not, it was a HUGE success in North America and made them very successful. I can understand them wanted to keep Kai more faithful to the Japanese but I don't understand why they felt they had something to prove. It's almost as if some people at Funimation actually took all the online criticism personally.

I think as actors they naturally recognize that they were still very new and inexperienced when they started dubbing DBZ, and that they could do a much better job the second time around.

Also, DBZ might have been very successful in the US, but it had already had at least as much success in countless other countries around the world long before Funi came around. So it's not surprising that Funi found success even with an amateurish dub, and it's easy to imagine that they could have achieved even greater success with it had they handled it with their current level of professionalism right from the start.

Haha, been saying that for years so I gotta agree with you 100%! I interviewed fans from Poland and Mexico pointing out the same thing to elaborate on my point. It's always what I said when people made a big deal about the dub's success in America while crediting Funimation for DBZ ever being a hit here.

My sig actually comes from something Schemmel said on this board many years ago when (I think?) some poster kept harassing and haranguing him online til he responded here. I think the original topic he made got deleted but I saved every last inch of it here (and my computer) at the time for posterity.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=secret


Sean Schemmel- ""I'll talk as loudly as I want now, and I'll be heard. The reason is you're misunderstanding some things about companies and dubbing and how they control our mouths. Just because I was in the original DBZ, doesn't mean I liked it or supported it artistically. We were all frustrated with the old powers that be at Funimation, and for those of you who have never worked in show business professionally, which I would say is, all of you, you may not realize that many companies stance on gag orders is this. "Shut up or be fired." Also, I have a LOT more experience, writing, dubbing, directing and acting in anime than I did when I recorded DBZ the first time. That was my first acting audition. I understand Japanese culture, voice acting, adaptation, the differences between japanese and english significantly more, and, as far as music is concerned I have vast experience in that area, so when I tell you the music will suck, aside from your own subjective experience, I'm pretty qualified to talk about the suckiness of music or not. Of course to each his own at the end of the day. I will be silent about my opinions no longer. We did the best we could with DBZ with some really really crappy decisions that were made by people, who in my opinion, not only had zero artistic talent and experience, were also trying to appease american audiences to make money because perhaps they thought the Pokemon formula would work for DBZ. If America wasn't so uptight about things and parents didn't allow the tv to babysit their children, perhaps more shows would come the U.S. and be uncut. At the end of the day, I am, and have always been a freelance actor, and just because I work for a company doesn't mean I support their decisions. This is the first time I have supported Funi's decisions publicly, and the staff at Funi is now amazing. It's a completely different company.

Have a nice day."


Funimation did take a LOT of their online criticism personally. I know that from a handful of e-mail interactions ages ago during my DBZU 2 days.

I think a LOT of them had secret misgivings about the handling of the dub they kept bottled up inside- what Schemmel said publicly would seem to indicate that.

Before anyone asks me, I'll most definitely agree that a lot of the criticism of them was very mean-spirited and overly personal. Certainly some of my own, and I was the king of it during my heydays of DBZU 2. I'd definitely be more polite in several areas if I did it again. And just in case anybody from Funimation ever reading this, I do officially apologize for a lot of the dickish things I said in the past. There are too many Funi employees to list so I'll just list Chris Sabat here, you are NOT a hack and your Zoro/Vegeta are both quite excellent! Anger from many fans (including myself) didn't emerge from a vacuum or in response to a perfect product, that's all I'll say in defense of my past self so you can make of that what you will.

I wouldn't change my criticism of the many issues with the dub though. (ie, "I should have been more polite at certain times" is NOT the same as "I never should have criticized anything whatsoever.) The fact that the official VA for Goku essentially agreed with me on this very board does say a lot I think.

Criticism in general existed because their dub of DBZ had countless structural problems from voice acting, directing, music and even the accuracy of the scripts they were using. (they had really bad "Engrish" scripts from Toei before hiring Mr. Simmonds to handle that for them.) People criticized Funimation because they wanted them to improve and Funimation wanted to improve because they wanted to prove the people attacking them wrong.

If Funimation had gotten zero criticism then that would have gotten rid of most of their incentive to improve- after all, DBZ's uncut/dual dvd's originally came about because Brian Real and Simmonds started their uncut/dual petition that got 10,000+ sigs and contacted Funimation. 10,000+ people wouldn't have signed that if there wasn't demand and controversy for it. The dual-episodes thing is probably the biggest (arguably the only) blessing American DBZ fans got from Gen's uncle being one of the bigwigs in charge at Toei, I'm pretty sure no other countries had J. episodes for sale (even Japan!) until they came to America.

Both sides won in the end. Funimation's done a great job with the newest dub work and certainly all the their other animes, and all fans can now enjoy a great dub. The official man for dub DBZ agreed with all the fans in the end and even a dude like me can chill and get along friendly-like with one of the guys -cRookie_Monster, aka Mr. Morgan- that composed Team Faulconer and made some of the music for the dub. I even reversed course over time and admitted Team Faulconer did make a lot of good and catchy tunes.

Even people like me and Psaros have little hostility or complaints left about them (aside from maybe King Kai's voice and a few other quibbling things). Most of the criticism that exists for Funimation is merely archives of past history rather than an ongoing thing anymore these days.

So, that's my thoughts on it. Just wanted to share my two cents.

And just to clarify, I didn't post this to start any flame wars or personally attack anyone, either users here or actual employees of Funimation. (I know some dub discussions can get heated) I can respect people's points of views even if they may disagree with me much of the time so as long as they can be cool and polite. (Just ask Laserkid he'll tell you the same! Seriously, go ask him if you don't believe me! ) If anyone disagrees with anything I said please try to keep things civil and polite, peace and love and flowers and all that good stuff everybody, thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8

http://www.adultswim.com/videos/black-jesus/

[Cure Dragon 255]

Oh My God! You are GreatSaiyamanWhatever? The owner of DBZU 2?

[TVfan721]

GSM777, well done man, that was the most sane, respectful, professional and appropriate message I have ever seen you write. I've given you a lot of shit in the past for your old ways (which is actually explained in that old link you posted from 2011 for anyone who wants to know why) but what you said today was awesome. For the record, from day one, you made valid points but it was how you went about it that I just couldn't support but it's all good now because you've admitted to your faults and apologized which I respect. Since you've done that, I now have no problem acknowledging that you did some really good work and you definitely made some positive contributions to the community. If you had approached everything the way you did in your message from earlier today, I would have never had an issue with your work and I don't think anyone would have, because like I said, you made valid complaints and had great points but it was simply how you handled it that was wrong. It's all good though because it's all in the past Take care man.

[GS7X7]

Thanks, that's good to hear tvfan!

Oh My God! You are GreatSaiyamanWhatever? The owner of DBZU 2?

Yep, that's me.

[ABED]

As much as FUNi deserves criticism for many of their decisions, I think we're lucky that it was the company that got DBZ. I don't know how many companies who would've given us the home video releases we got. Grated, they also gave us DBZ in widescreen, but I doubt we would've gotten Dragon Boxes.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Or actual improvement.

[ABED]

Or actual improvement.

Funi's dub was an improvement over the original?

[Lord Beerus]

Haha, been saying that for years so I gotta agree with you 100%! I interviewed fans from Poland and Mexico pointing out the same thing to elaborate on my point. It's always what I said when people made a big deal about the dub's success in America while crediting Funimation for DBZ ever being a hit here.

My sig actually comes from something Schemmel said on this board many years ago when (I think?) some poster kept harassing and haranguing him online til he responded here. I think the original topic he made got deleted but I saved every last inch of it here (and my computer) at the time for posterity.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=secret


Sean Schemmel- ""I'll talk as loudly as I want now, and I'll be heard. The reason is you're misunderstanding some things about companies and dubbing and how they control our mouths. Just because I was in the original DBZ, doesn't mean I liked it or supported it artistically. We were all frustrated with the old powers that be at Funimation, and for those of you who have never worked in show business professionally, which I would say is, all of you, you may not realize that many companies stance on gag orders is this. "Shut up or be fired." Also, I have a LOT more experience, writing, dubbing, directing and acting in anime than I did when I recorded DBZ the first time. That was my first acting audition. I understand Japanese culture, voice acting, adaptation, the differences between japanese and english significantly more, and, as far as music is concerned I have vast experience in that area, so when I tell you the music will suck, aside from your own subjective experience, I'm pretty qualified to talk about the suckiness of music or not. Of course to each his own at the end of the day. I will be silent about my opinions no longer. We did the best we could with DBZ with some really really crappy decisions that were made by people, who in my opinion, not only had zero artistic talent and experience, were also trying to appease american audiences to make money because perhaps they thought the Pokemon formula would work for DBZ. If America wasn't so uptight about things and parents didn't allow the tv to babysit their children, perhaps more shows would come the U.S. and be uncut. At the end of the day, I am, and have always been a freelance actor, and just because I work for a company doesn't mean I support their decisions. This is the first time I have supported Funi's decisions publicly, and the staff at Funi is now amazing. It's a completely different company.

Have a nice day."


Funimation did take a LOT of their online criticism personally. I know that from a handful of e-mail interactions ages ago during my DBZU 2 days.

I think a LOT of them had secret misgivings about the handling of the dub they kept bottled up inside- what Schemmel said publicly would seem to indicate that.

Before anyone asks me, I'll most definitely agree that a lot of the criticism of them was very mean-spirited and overly personal. Certainly some of my own, and I was the king of it during my heydays of DBZU 2. I'd definitely be more polite in several areas if I did it again. And just in case anybody from Funimation ever reading this, I do officially apologize for a lot of the dickish things I said in the past. There are too many Funi employees to list so I'll just list Chris Sabat here, you are NOT a hack and your Zoro/Vegeta are both quite excellent! Anger from many fans (including myself) didn't emerge from a vacuum or in response to a perfect product, that's all I'll say in defense of my past self so you can make of that what you will.

I wouldn't change my criticism of the many issues with the dub though. (ie, "I should have been more polite at certain times" is NOT the same as "I never should have criticized anything whatsoever.) The fact that the official VA for Goku essentially agreed with me on this very board does say a lot I think.

Criticism in general existed because their dub of DBZ had countless structural problems from voice acting, directing, music and even the accuracy of the scripts they were using. (they had really bad "Engrish" scripts from Toei before hiring Mr. Simmonds to handle that for them.) People criticized Funimation because they wanted them to improve and Funimation wanted to improve because they wanted to prove the people attacking them wrong.

If Funimation had gotten zero criticism then that would have gotten rid of most of their incentive to improve- after all, DBZ's uncut/dual dvd's originally came about because Brian Real and Simmonds started their uncut/dual petition that got 10,000+ sigs and contacted Funimation. 10,000+ people wouldn't have signed that if there wasn't demand and controversy for it. The dual-episodes thing is probably the biggest (arguably the only) blessing American DBZ fans got from Gen's uncle being one of the bigwigs in charge at Toei, I'm pretty sure no other countries had J. episodes for sale (even Japan!) until they came to America.

Both sides won in the end. Funimation's done a great job with the newest dub work and certainly all the their other animes, and all fans can now enjoy a great dub. The official man for dub DBZ agreed with all the fans in the end and even a dude like me can chill and get along friendly-like with one of the guys -cRookie_Monster, aka Mr. Morgan- that composed Team Faulconer and made some of the music for the dub. I even reversed course over time and admitted Team Faulconer did make a lot of good and catchy tunes.

Even people like me and Psaros have little hostility or complaints left about them (aside from maybe King Kai's voice and a few other quibbling things). Most of the criticism that exists for Funimation is merely archives of past history rather than an ongoing thing anymore these days.

So, that's my thoughts on it. Just wanted to share my two cents.

And just to clarify, I didn't post this to start any flame wars or personally attack anyone, either users here or actual employees of Funimation. (I know some dub discussions can get heated) I can respect people's points of views even if they may disagree with me much of the time so as long as they can be cool and polite. (Just ask Laserkid he'll tell you the same! Seriously, go ask him if you don't believe me! ) If anyone disagrees with anything I said please try to keep things civil and polite, peace and love and flowers and all that good stuff everybody, thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8

http://www.adultswim.com/videos/black-jesus/

Awesome post man!

Honestly, considering what Funimation had to deal with at that time, how DBZ was handled was probably the best that they could have done with the show. Funimation were barely even a company the time that they started dubbing the show back in the late 90s. They were at the time made up of the leftovers from original Ocean Dub and people they recruited locally who had next to no experience in acting or voice of any kind. Hell, it kinds of miracle that Funimation were given to ball to roll with in Dragon Ball Z considering it got cancelled by the time there were getting their shit together to start re-dubbing it. Say what you will about the voice actors but Funimation were given no favors as far as the script went. I remember Sabat recollecting in a interview a few years back about how the scripts they had gotten from Japan were either horribly translated or untranslatable, so they pretty much had to make up shit as they went. Which explains a lot to honest! But really watching Kai and watching the original Funi dub of DBZ, it's safe to say that all of the original actors that still dubbing the show have come a long way and I can't be happier about that.

[GS7X7]

Thanks! Btw, just curious but what interview was that?

I'm pretty sure the scripts started getting way more accurate when Simmons came around, after the Cell saga.


Interestingly enough, Toei (to discourage "reverse-importation") deliberately sent Simmons/Funimation J. tapes that had the audio muted for the "next episode previews." Simmons mentioned that on Toriyama.org ages ago as Psaros recalled. He didn't mention the reverse-importation thingey at the time because he didn't. (Toei just sent him the tapes with zero explanation- he knew much later probably because he had asked them about the issue and they'd explained htings to him.)

Remember when reviewing Ginyu Assault how Psaros suggested Simmons could easily rectify that audio error with his access to fansubs? That's why Simmons never followed his advice- not that he didn't want to or didn't already have fansubs or 100 buddies with fansubs but because Toei didn't want it to happen.

That's also why the English dub got far less, "Hey wassup guys, this is Goku!" next episode previews. Since Simmonds was given zero to work with for next episode previews Funimation was forced to completely wing them after the Cell saga.



One more thing, courtesy of CrookieMonster, aka Mr. Morgan- "I've talked to many of them, if not for very long, but yeah they are people with different views...and feelings btw. Most of them wouldn't even look online btw, because the stuff they saw hurt them so badly. I remember back in 1999-2000 I felt like one of the only people who actually had the nerve to read all the hatred that was coming from the then sea of displeased Ocean fans. They were incredibly hard on the voice cast....and us of course, but much harder on the voices."

[Attitudefan]

I've read your site, and if I recall, you are really hard on the Faulconer crew, whom I think were the best product out of the in house dub.

Only if the score had silence it would be great. I'm an Ocean fan but I still love the Faulconer Team's score as well as the original.

I will say that while it is the past, it is still a problem. The releases we still get have the poor acting, poor scripts, and an overall mishandled dub. Schemmel is a huge part in this problem since he never corrected his awful acting.

Say what you will about kai, it is a different product and doesn't fix the problems of the dub of the series. It's a shame. That's all it is.

[EmmaWinters]

I think the original topic he made got deleted but I saved every last inch of it here (and my computer) at the time for posterity.

I think this is the original thread.

[TVfan721]

I've read your site, and if I recall, you are really hard on the Faulconer crew, whom I think were the best product out of the in house dub.

Only if the score had silence it would be great. I'm an Ocean fan but I still love the Faulconer Team's score as well as the original.

I will say that while it is the past, it is still a problem. The releases we still get have the poor acting, poor scripts, and an overall mishandled dub. Schemmel is a huge part in this problem since he never corrected his awful acting.

Say what you will about kai, it is a different product and doesn't fix the problems of the dub of the series. It's a shame. That's all it is.

That's what I said a few weeks ago and no one seemed to agree:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 04#p846379

It's ridiculous that Sean didn't bother to re-dub anything for Season 3 at least when all of the other main characters did. Chris Sabat should have at least gone abit further than the Garlic Jr saga in terms of re-dubbing. The voice acting for Vegeta in the Android Arc is still pretty bad.

[EmmaWinters]

It's ridiculous that Sean didn't bother to re-dub anything for Season 3 at least when all of the other main characters did.

Was he given the option? I always figured he'd have done it if he had the chance.

[El Diabeetus]

It's ridiculous that Sean didn't bother to re-dub anything for Season 3 at least when all of the other main characters did.

Was he given the option? I always figured he'd have done it if he had the chance.

He was living in New York at the time and felt it unnecssary to redub it at the time the 'Remastered' dub was coming out.

[EmmaWinters]

It's ridiculous that Sean didn't bother to re-dub anything for Season 3 at least when all of the other main characters did.

Was he given the option? I always figured he'd have done it if he had the chance.

He was living in New York at the time and felt it unnecssary to redub it at the time the 'Remastered' dub was coming out.

That's unfortunate. He really sticks out on the Blurays.