Episode #0065 (18 February 2007)

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:41 am

Excellent work, my friends! One of your best to date! I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for running through all the bases on the Season 1 release! Congratulations on an outstanding podcast!

theoriginalbilis · Post by **theoriginalbilis** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:57 am

Good podcast, as usual.

But, as for your criticizing "who is this set for? Not dub fans." You're wrong. I'm a dub fan who's wanted the Japanese BGM for years.

- Bilis

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:05 am

First, let me say I had a badass time doing this. Bullshitting with Mike, Meri and Julian is a blast and I'm glad they had me back on.

The bad news? I've got the review finished and on my computer...but my buddy in Pennsylvania's server apparently has the FTP service stopped. It's happened a couple of times over the past week or so due to an update he did.

So, I'm extremely sorry guys. I'll be at work tomorrow until fairly late, but I'll get in touch with my buddy and help him iron out his server problems so that when I get home I can just upload it all. Hopefully you guys will find all my hard work to be worth it, as I'm pretty happy with the final product and think you will be too.

So...stay tuned and hopefully Mike won't kill me in the meantime, since I promised I'd have it up tonight ;p

-Corey

SonGokuGT · Post by **SonGokuGT** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:09 am

Thanks for the head's up, Corey! I'm sure it'll be worth the wait!

dasmith · Post by **dasmith** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:30 am

I was definitely looking forward to this one and it was awesome!

I love Jeff's take on the remastering extra and all of the other wackiness in this episode.

Goofy antics and great information, what more could we ask for? (except for maybe a widescreen rerelease

)

Lavender Saiyan · Post by **Lavender Saiyan** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:51 am

I gotta say guys, I was very impressed with this episode. I am personally a supporter of Funimation, despite the stupid shit they do. I bought this Box Set & enjoyed it very much despite it's flaws & will continue to buy the sets.

So with that said, when going into this episode I was expecting to be Pissed Off, I thought you'd trash it, trash Funimation, and just be an ass. But I am happy to say I was proven wrong. You stuck with the facts alone (for the most part). You explained what was wrong with the set, why it's wrong, & why it upset you. Contrary to what I was expecting, "ZOMGz, FUNi iz the sukz0rz and this is the shitness, if you buy it you're st00pid". So, all-in-all, I found this review to be very true & in good taste. Out of anything in this episode, the thing I got most pissed at is that you called Trinity Blood, "crap"

. I love TB, it rocks.

Kirbopher · Post by **Kirbopher** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:37 am

Aw, but Trinity Blood and Speedgrapher were both pretty good D:

Damn, you guys were HYPER in this one XD; Anyways, I don't think FUNimation is alone with the digi-pack thing, sadly, as Meri and Corey both brought some examples for. Avatar: The Last Airbender's first Season boxset had the exact same pain-in-the-ass layout, and that show's become extremely popular as well. I dunno what the deal is with that x_x; Corey, the gay voice at the end, and the references to the dub mistakes page were brilliant.

Despite the fact that I enjoyed the boxset myself, the review was very well thought-out, and even more well done. So excellent job to all four of you, and Jeff with his little commentary to add in XD; My own opinion of the set:

I can very easily understand anyone, tech-savvy or not, being annoyed about the widescreen. However, from what I saw, the awkward moments from where a character's head would be cut off, and all of the like, were so far and few between, that they didn't affect my overall experience of going back to watch the episodes I hadn't seen in so long. I've yet to see the special features, but I'm sure I won't give too much of a crap about them, as I probably would've been only interested in audio commentaries or anything resembling that. Then, the big redub itself: While this wasn't what I've been asking for ten years like you guys, since I was unaware of the changes from the Japanese version back in the day, knowing that the Japanese music with the voices I'm used to would be in there was enough to peak my interest in the first place. YES, I liked Bruce Falconer's music, simply because I'm USED TO IT. However, (and this is probably because I haven't seen any of the "omg japaneez moosac is ghey american moosac is the shiz lolz" morons you've spoken about) I've been enjoying the Japanese score as much as anyone else would. I've heard Dragonball and Tenchi in Tokyo's music from back in the old weekday Toonami days, so I'm well enough attuned with the Japanese composer's work to like it just fine. As I'm everyone on this forum also knows, yes, I like the "forced" FUNimation dub cast, and am well aware of their faults when doing this show. Same answer as the music, it's what I'm used to, but at the same time, I'm also well aware of the fact that the Japanese cast are some VERY talented and experienced seiyuu, and respect them for their performances on the series for so many years. So all in all, I DID like the boxset, and am continuing to enjoy it for what it is.

Odds are, I'll be picking up the rest, simply because I didn't own the rest of the series in any type of form anyway (outside of a few random VHS tapes from the Great Saiyaman Saga and up). At the very least though, I hope this doesn't mean I'll fall into the typical, and deservingly negatively placed dub fan stereotype that you guys've had to deal with for a long while now.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:36 am

Kirbopher wrote:At the very least though, I hope this doesn't mean I'll fall into the typical, and deservingly negatively placed dub fan stereotype that you guys've had to deal with for a long while now.

Personally, I don't mind if people pick up and/or enjoy this set. It's the blatant denial people seem to have going on. People can't seem to accept the fact that it is cropped and that FUNimation/Video Post & Transfer did nothing more than apply some automated filtering. They also try and dismiss the lost footage as "nothing but heads and feet lol" while praising the extra footage (that usually consists of an extra rock/cloud/background element) gained in the very same paragraph. Just look at Amazon's reviews for an idea of what I'm talking about, some people sound like they're part of a viral marketing campaign or they've been brainwashed ;p

That said, I respect you a whole lot more for owning the series in some legitimate format than I would someone who bootlegs the series.

-Corey

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:18 am

Haha, Corey called it a brick. As for the review, you guys covered a lot of things that I noticed too. The useless booklet, the whole "cinematic aspect" they were pushing for, etc. But, there was one big thing in the set that annoyed the hell out of me and I'm pretty sure you guys didn't mention it. Unfortunately, I can't remember that for my life. Damn it all...

theoriginalbilis wrote:But, as for your criticizing "who is this set for? Not dub fans." You're wrong. I'm a dub fan who's wanted the Japanese BGM for years.

Well I'm not going to say I'm exclusively a "dub fan" or a fan of the original, I just like the show. I mean, I was introduced to the English voices, then I learned about the original version and liked that too so I actually enjoy this newer way of watching the show. Too little too late? Maybe, but hey it could always be worse I suppose...(The way I see it, the worst case scenario is that they don't finish this set like they did for the UUE).

I guess I'm in the position of wanting to own the episodes legitimately, knowing what happens anyway (in regards of the episodes and what's suppose to be seen), and not having the money to buy DragonBox singles (yet). So the cropping doesn't bother me too much, but the overall remastering is burden for reasons mentioned in the podcast and forum. Hmm, I did a few cross checking with the JPN audio and the 5.1 but damn I didn't catch the Gohan one you mentioned. They use that,uh, choir insert song thing quite a few times in the series..it could get awkward.

As for pointing out the scapegoat, I was thinking that when I first saw the tech trailer on YouTube. I felt so bad for that guy (Steve Franco, was it) for looking like a dumbass or a bold faced liar until I heard his astounding resume..What exactly is he remastering for Playboy.

-Rick

Peegles · Post by **Peegles** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:15 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:First, let me say I had a badass time doing this. Bullshitting with Mike, Meri and Julian is a blast and I'm glad they had me back on.

The bad news? I've got the review finished and on my computer...but my buddy in Pennsylvania's server apparently has the FTP service stopped. It's happened a couple of times over the past week or so due to an update he did.

So, I'm extremely sorry guys. I'll be at work tomorrow until fairly late, but I'll get in touch with my buddy and help him iron out his server problems so that when I get home I can just upload it all. Hopefully you guys will find all my hard work to be worth it, as I'm pretty happy with the final product and think you will be too.

So...stay tuned and hopefully Mike won't kill me in the meantime, since I promised I'd have it up tonight ;p

-Corey

Corey iz mah hereo lulz.

Brakus · Post by **Brakus** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:25 pm

Wow, a mind-blowing 1 1/2 hour podcast!

I am listening to this with the mindset that this is going to be blatantly biased against FUNimation and their handling of the big orange boxset, and so I should be expecting the mostly valid arguments against buying the big orange boxset. But I bought the damn thing anyway, and I enjoyed it. However, here are some thoughts that came around as I'm listening to the podcast...

That timeline in the booklet is tremendously flawed. However, the other things about the booklet were fine and didn't bother me as much as you all did. The packaging was okay, but suffice it to say that Antimere didn't work on the box design for this boxset.

The framing for me wasn't a problem, because I quickly got over the "this isn't supposed to be in 16:9". That said, I know there are some scenes that are going to look pretty funny and awkward because of the 16:9 thing. Meri brought up the Goku/Vegeta pan-shot scene which looked somewhat awkward. I myself noticed some scenes with Nappa that looked awkward as well. (Corey just brought up that example as I'm listening to this.)

The picture is not flawless and it could look so much better. I definitely noticed the occasional dirt flaws and "chili peppers" in the frames. However, I think the footage has been the best I've ever seen on ANY Dragonball Z release. Once I got past the widescreen issue, I had no problem with the picture. I do agree with Corey that I didn't really expect FUNimation to actually go and do actual frame-by-frame restoration. I found myself agreeing with Corey with some of these issues.

The audio has been fine to me. I take issue with "Cha-La Head-Cha-La" not being heard on the English w/Japanese BGM track... I'm sincerely hoping it isn't a legal thing. I did get over that issue quickly - I just switched to the Japanese track for the OP and then switched back afterward.

The Japanese BGM actually enhances the story for me in English. I do take issue with Mike & Meri stating "how bad [FUNimation's] English dub actually is" because they're just not hardcore English dub fans; they've stated so themselves numerous times. I'm sure they like other shows that were dubbed into English; it's just they hated this show. I cannot judge how good the Japanese track sounds because I know very VERY little Japanese. There's just no way to experience or appreciate how a 12-year-old Japanese kid would have felt when they saw this for the first time in Japanese with no subtitles. I liked it in English, and believe it or not, I think Chris Sabat's "IT'S OVER 9000, ARGH!" was a lot better and matched the mouthflaps better than Brian Drummond's "IT'S OVER 9000!" overdramatic take on the line. I totally disagree with Mike's opinion that you might find something wrong with hearing the English dub with the Japanese BGM. That track just happens to make the show more special to me, in that you don't have music going on and on incessantly distracting from the dialogue. Think about it - would another show that got a similar treatment (One Piece) have sounded a lot better if it had the original Japanese BGM in the English dub? I would think it would sound better and add to the story.

On the other hand, on the English track, the *removal* of the Japanese BGM during Piccolo's death enhances the scene; the sort-of choir would have distracted the scene and made it sound a little hokey. However, the insert songs disappearing might be more of a legal issue.

Mike & Meri may have been disappointed, but I enjoyed it. I'm not exactly the easiest person to please, and I enjoyed it. There are people that will remember DBZ when it was shown on Cartoon Network, and it will sell briskly. However, not everyone who buys this is going to be this exacting with the footage is Mike and Meri and Julian and Jeff and Corey. People will get a kick out of seeing something from their childhood again. The price point is just that tipping point that gets people to buy it; it certainly isn't going to be some kind of loss leader for FUNimation considering the other stuff they put out and the various prices other sellers are putting this out -- remember, the MSRP is $50, but everywhere else you can get it for less than that - as low as $30 at Best Buy or a little more at (say) Suncoast for $40. I have no doubt that this will still sell well despite its flaws.

Mike needs to remember that not everybody liked Faulconer's or Menza's music, and lots of people are going to finally get a somewhat proper English dub with Japanese BGM. Hell, why would anyone who prefers their anime in English watch a show with all the Japanese BGM replaced? I totally stopped watching Initial D in English when Tokyopop wouldn't make the change to the Eurobeat soundtrack, and of course don't forget One Piece in English.

Hopefully you are a more informed consumer after hearing this podcast, but still, I bought this boxset. The decision to buy this boxset still lies with you, the consumer. Experts like Mike & Meri have their opinion, and shills like FUNimation will have theirs too. Personally, I think FUNimation is a fine company, the one that seems to be doing everything right in a lot of aspects and titles they've licensed. And there are other ways to support FUNimation that don't involve buying this boxset. But it's your decision to buy this boxset or not.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:43 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:As for pointing out the scapegoat, I was thinking that when I first saw the tech trailer on YouTube. I felt so bad for that guy (Steve Franco, was it) for looking like a dumbass or a bold faced liar until I heard his astounding resume..What exactly is he remastering for Playboy.
-Rick

The Girls of Hooters, of course. Someone's gotta make sure the nipples are the right color, afterall ;p

Nah, apparently he's just credited as the colorist. It probably means he just tweaked the color balance and saturation, much like he did on this release (since in all honesty, aside from loading "Preset X," I don't think any human intervention went into the actual DVNR "remaster" job).

But, there was one big thing in the set that annoyed the hell out of me and I'm pretty sure you guys didn't mention it. Unfortunately, I can't remember that for my life. Damn it all...

Yeah, I always get that feeling myself. Hopefully I covered it in the website that'll go up tonight when I get home.

Corey, the gay voice at the end, and the references to the dub mistakes page were brilliant.

Ah yes, the gay voice has been a crowd pleaser for many years now. In terms of the Ocean dub and Anime Labs references, it just felt right

Personally, I think FUNimation is a fine company, the one that seems to be doing everything right in a lot of aspects and titles they've licensed.

I think FUNimation is a fine company as well. I've greatly enjoyed some of their releases, however their consistent mishandling of DragonBall Z makes me feel less warm and fuzzy about them. This was pretty much their shot in all-around redemption for me as an anime company, having had 7 years of DVD releases to learn what works and what does not...however, they blew it big time in my opinion. I'll continue to buy their other releases, but for me DragonBall Z is essentially dead in the United States. I just feel for those who (after 7 years of buying) are now stuck with what, 250 episodes out of 291 uncut and in the proper aspect ratio? Way to fuck those who helped the company actually break into the DVD market, if not the anime market in general.

The most annoying thing is that by simply releasing the episodes with a higher bitrate and no cheap filtering, they would have completely won me over. Instead, it seems like they went out of their way to make a product I wouldn't recommend to a blind person. I'm just sorry Daimao's masterful translations are wasted on such an abortion of a release, since they're quite literally the only thing I can give praise to.

*sigh* And here I hoped I could finally drop the last part of, "Oh yeah, FUNimation is a great company...you know, unless it's DragonBall Z."

-Corey

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:18 pm

Very good episode you guys, actually the first one I've downloaded in a while. I'll say it like others before me, you all stuck to the facts and didn't pull shit out of your asses, being honest and straight. Though my only quirk is how you guys focused on what was basically a review focused mainly at FUNimation's marketing strategy and the lies, which while I agree was a load of horse shit on their part, didn't seem to leave time to discuss what you guys thought of this particular saga and watching these episodes with Daimao's new translation. Just a bit too focused on the negatives of the issues that FUNi pulled on advertising this for my tastes.

But overall, great review and great episode, though I will say I respectively disagree with your points about the dub w/t Japanese BGM and the remastering job. Personally I think it looks better than any previous FUNi release to date, probably because I'm watching the show to enjoy the series, not to focus on what specific line of animation on Kami's arm is blurred or what chili pepper is on the textless Cha-La opening. It's funny that Corey brought up Gohan's face flashing blue, as that was one of the first quirks I noticed when I wasn't even looking for flaws, kinda reminded me of Bulma's skin issue in the Dragonbox's movies 12 and 13.

Anywho, kickass episode and keep up the good work, I for one do intend to continue buying the sets, but only because I prefer to have them in fully translated form, the wide-screen honestly doesn't irk me, and I like the remastering job. Yes, the lies from FUNi piss me off and I would've preferred the ratio in an unaltered 4:3 (I actually prefer this 16:9 over the previous releases' zoom-in 4:3), but I'm gonna take what I can get with the season sets. In the end, what's best is all a matter of opinion, and I'll admit you all had fantastic facts to back yours.

Post by **desirecampbell** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:35 pm

As I listen:

Julian's driving episode!

I seriously had no idea what "nair-roo-too" was until Meri said "Naruto"

Digi-packs? Truly, truly outrageous!

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:45 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:Personally I think it looks better than any previous FUNi release to date, probably because I'm watching the show to enjoy the series, not to focus on what specific line of animation on Kami's arm is blurred or what chili pepper is on the textless Cha-La opening.

Two things.

First, yes it looks better, but how much of that can be attributed to the actual competant encoding of the material as opposed to the DVNR? And would it look any worse as a fullscreen presentation? I don't think so, personally.

Second, and this makes me wanna throw random pieces of furniture (not at you, Conan), is the growing sect of people who seem to think that you can only watch a release to "enjoy the series" or to pick it apart on a technical level. This isn't true by a longshot.

Say you go to a movie, and it's your favorite film. The projectionist doesn't focus the film properly, or he loads the film incorrectly so a scratch gets made across the entire reel. Now, it's still the movie you love, but it's the movie you love with shitty focus and a scratch that annoys the living hell out of you. Does it mean you're not watching the movie to enjoy it because these factors bug you and you wish they weren't present? No.

To me, the cropping and the poor use of DVNR is as bad as the above scenario. Add in the more exaggerated instances of film damage that would have taken all of 5 minutes to fix and it only serves to make things worse. There is nothing wrong with holding a professional company to their word, or at the very least a certain level of quality. Especially when they've proven themselves to be capable with other releases.

Again, I'm not here to make people see things my way. It's just funny to me that most people, if not all, are going "Well, the widescreen doesn't bug me that much..." as opposed to, "WOW! WIDESCREEN! I CAN SEE SO MUCH MORE AND IT'S AMAZING! THIS REALLY IS THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE SEEN!" Kinda speaks volumes, no?

And yes, I did forget to mention Daimao's translations. It essentially goes without saying that the man is extremely talented and I'm only sorry that the overall quality of the release can't match the quality of his translations.

-Corey

DaemonCorps · Post by **DaemonCorps** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:55 pm

Just when the Season 1 threads start dying off, a new one is made with this podcast topic.

Anyways, I liked how you guys actually pointed out one thing that I never noticed: FUNi was kinda shifting between a massive hardcore OMG CRAZY release to a meh, kinda underground-ish release. It is pretty confusing what FUNi's trying to say about the series

.

As for the digipacks (yeah, I'll say it again), I've never had any trouble with them, and I think they look much nicer than thinpacks.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:00 pm

DaemonCorps wrote:As for the digipacks (yeah, I'll say it again), I've never had any trouble with them, and I think they look much nicer than thinpacks.

Eh, I've just purchased 3 or so that have had teeth broken during shipping, which meant they were garbage. At least with Thinpaks, if one is damaged (like it was with my Trigun remastered tins) you can just replace the case and you're home free. It's not a massive factor, but it's a nitpick.

-Corey

Kirbopher · Post by **Kirbopher** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:18 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
Kirbopher wrote:At the very least though, I hope this doesn't mean I'll fall into the typical, and deservingly negatively placed dub fan stereotype that you guys've had to deal with for a long while now.
Personally, I don't mind if people pick up and/or enjoy this set. It's the blatant denial people seem to have going on. People can't seem to accept the fact that it is cropped and that FUNimation/Video Post & Transfer did nothing more than apply some automated filtering. They also try and dismiss the lost footage as "nothing but heads and feet lol" while praising the extra footage (that usually consists of an extra rock/cloud/background element) gained in the very same paragraph. Just look at Amazon's reviews for an idea of what I'm talking about, some people sound like they're part of a viral marketing campaign or they've been brainwashed ;p

That said, I respect you a whole lot more for owning the series in some legitimate format than I would someone who bootlegs the series.

-Corey

Oh yeah, I'm not denying the facts that've been placed out in front of me. I know the widescreen is uneccasary and stupid, but since it doesn't matter to me all that much (and I couldn't even tell the whole thing about the color-changes), it made it a lot less of a smash over the head with an orange brick for me, so to speak XD;

Only bootleg thing I've ever bought was by accident, over eBay with a Rockman.EXE DVD boxset...with fansubs I could've easily gotten on myown. You can imagine how dumb I felt afterward >_>; The only time I ever try to get something through illegal means is when I feel a company doesn't deserve my money (as I'm sure everyone here can relate to). I like FUNimation and Viz's stuff, and 9 times outta 10, I like how they handle and distribute things, therefore, I blow my money on their shit. 4Kids, self-explanatory (and Toei's not much better, of course

) therefore, I'm gonna go download episodes of One Piece instead.

Sebastian (SB) · Post by **Sebastian (SB)** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:32 pm

I'm kinda torn of what to do with the Dragon Ball Z releases at this point. FUNi has really screwed me over with this. I've been waiting years for a good consistent release & they come out with something pretty half-assed. I'm really wanna buy the JPN R2 Releases, so I might lean towards that.

Either way, I'm hoping for the best (selectable widescreen & fullscreen), but expecting the worst, & as expected, great podcast guys.

KillerCory · Post by **KillerCory** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:33 pm

The mistakes made by Un-funimation were horrible. As mentioned they just looked at a few screens and said this looks good!

And, if they watched the opening couldn't they have just seen from the start how "great" of a job they did!! (Oh wait I forgot, they don't care!)

But, people will buy this set (I did), luckly I recorded the new "lost episodes" that were not finished with the ultimate uncut dvds in 4:3.

Will I buy season 2? Maybe. Just to see the kind of revisions they made with the script in the ginyu episodes.

Kanzenshuu

Episode #0065 (18 February 2007)

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