East City

[Gouko_the_Sleeping_Saiyan]

Does anybody ever notice they never revive those killed in East City?
Wouldnt you think they would of heard about it and tried to do something?
Or were they revived with Kuririn and the others? It doesnt seem like the Dragon would able to,to me at least.

[Conan the SSJ]

Does anybody ever notice they never revive those killed in East City?
Wouldnt you think they would of heard about it and tried to do something?
Or were they revived with Kuririn and the others? It doesnt seem like the Dragon would able to,to me at least.

Well, for one, the Dragonballs were gone with the results of the Saiyan battle. Gohan and the gang whom traveled to Namek, as well as Goku later, were all depending on the Namekian Dragonballs. However, they discover that only ONE person could be revived per wish (though this power of Porunga's is increased prior to Kid Buu destroying Earth). There was no way they could revive the East City victims with the mere 3 wishes, as they had to focus on bringing their friends back to life to help them against Freeza (Piccolo came back with the first wish and was moved to Namek with the second, while Vegeta gaining immortality would've been the third only because of his threats and the oncoming Freeza).

Mr. Popo and Kami soon managed to gather the Dragonballs with the intent of reviving Yamcha and Tien with its single wish (though Chaozu couldn't be brought back with Shenlong, as he was already revived once before), however Kaio decided to use this wish to the advantage of helping all the victims of Freeza and his henchmen on Namek (rather the Earth Dragonballs were active again because a year passed since Goku's revival or Kami being brought back to life is not known). Because the wish required reviving more than one person, Shenlong could only bring back all those whom died within a year's time, however this managed to revive the Grand Elder (GuuuRuuu) based on his heart attack technicality alongside Porunga.

The final wish of them all before Freeza's defeat was used to move everyone on Namek, except for Goku and Freeza, to Earth (the Namekian Dragonballs of course followed Grand Elder). With Freeza's defeat, the Earthlings and Namekians had to wait 130 days each (260 overall) to have all necessary wishes used, while the last/6th wish must be used to relocate the Namekians to a new home. Even if the Earthlings chose to revive the East City victims, they could only bring back 5 out of thousands. So in the end, they chose to stick to their hearts in reviving their friends (wish 1 for bringing Kuririn's molecule remains to Earth with wish 2 reviving him, leaving wishes 3, 4, and 5 to revive Yamcha, Chaozu, and Tien).

Realistically, the next opportunity for a wish would've been a year after the one that revived all of Freeza and his henchmen's victims, which is assumed to be when Cyborg Freeza begins his journey to Earth. By then, much more than a year had passed since the battle with the Saiyans, so even if the gang tried, Shenlong's limitation of reviving more than one person who died within a year's time would've halted that wish from happening. In a sad twist of irony, the Z senshi never had a real chance to revive all those victims, as their priorities were very understandably diverted with the issues of Freeza and their own friends.

[Dayspring]

Long story short: Namek DBs can't do that, so they didn't use any Namek DB wishes. The ealiest chance they would have had with Earth DBs is 13 months after East City, and the limit to revive people is 12 months.

[Gouko_the_Sleeping_Saiyan]

Thanks Conan,that always confused me.

[Olivier Hague]

the limit to revive people is 12 months.

I seem to remember the phrasing was a bit ambiguous though... As in, either Shenlong can't revive people who died more than a year ago (like you said... but in that case, how did they revive Gokû after he was killed by Piccolo? he stayed dead for almost 13 months), or he can't revive (at once) two different people who died more than one year apart of each other.

[desirecampbell]

the limit to revive people is 12 months.

I seem to remember the phrasing was a bit ambiguous though... As in, either Shenlong can't revive people who died more than a year ago (like you said... but in that case, how did they revive Gokû after he was killed by Piccolo? he stayed dead for almost 13 months), or he can't revive (at once) two different people who died more than one year apart of each other.

I thought the deal was that because Shenlong was bringing back so many people at once, he just didn't have the power to bring back anymore than those Freeza and his men had killed in the last year.

[Kendamu]

the limit to revive people is 12 months.

I seem to remember the phrasing was a bit ambiguous though... As in, either Shenlong can't revive people who died more than a year ago (like you said... but in that case, how did they revive Gokû after he was killed by Piccolo? he stayed dead for almost 13 months), or he can't revive (at once) two different people who died more than one year apart of each other.

Wait. 13 months? Goku died... the Saiyans were supposed to arrive one year after that point... and they arrived a month early.

That would make Goku dead for 11 months.

Or did I miss something?

[Olivier Hague]

Wait. 13 months? Goku died... the Saiyans were supposed to arrive one year after that point... and they arrived a month early.

I don't know, I'm using the Daizenshû timeline, here.
I do remember something about them being early, indeed, but I also believe Raditz and Kaiô both had their own estimations as to the date of arrival, and I'm not sure how things went after that...

EDIT:
I just checked, and you're right, it should be more like 11 months, as far as I can tell. They thought it would be one year, Gokû reached the Kaiôsei in 6 months, and Kaiô then told him the Saiyans would arrive in 158 days.

Still, if Shenlong can't revive people who died more than one year earlier, why do Yamcha and Tenshinhan say they don't mind waiting one year before being revived, when Kaiô comes up with his "Dragon Ball plan"?
Were they not paying attention?
Was Toriyama not paying attention?

[desirecampbell]

Still, if Shenlong can't revive people who died more than one year earlier, why do Yamcha and Tenshinhan say they don't mind waiting one year before being revived, when Kaiô comes up with his "Dragon Ball plan"?
Were they not paying attention?
Was Toriyama not paying attention?

Like I said, it's probably not that the Dragon can't bring back someone who died more than a year ago - it's that he's not strong enough to do it dozens of times at once.

Shenlong makes it clear that he has a limited amount of power. Brining back recently deceased people is easier than bringing back those who've been dead for years, and brining one person back is less difficult than brining multiple people back - so reviving hundreds of people who may have died years ago probably taps his total power, so he just couldn't bring back that many people at once.

He was asked to bring back 'all those killed by Freeza and his men'. That's a hell of a lot of people. He judged that he could only bring back 'those who had died in the last year'. Not that there was some kind of "time limit" imposed on him, he just didn't have the strength to do that much.

[Olivier Hague]

Like I said, it's probably not that the Dragon can't bring back someone who died more than a year ago - it's that he's not strong enough to do it dozens of times at once.

Yes, that's another possibility... I don't remember the exact phrasing, so...

[Dayspring]

Still, if Shenlong can't revive people who died more than one year earlier, why do Yamcha and Tenshinhan say they don't mind waiting one year before being revived, when Kaiô comes up with his "Dragon Ball plan"?
Were they not paying attention?
Was Toriyama not paying attention?

Like I said, it's probably not that the Dragon can't bring back someone who died more than a year ago - it's that he's not strong enough to do it dozens of times at once.

Shenlong makes it clear that he has a limited amount of power. Brining back recently deceased people is easier than bringing back those who've been dead for years, and brining one person back is less difficult than brining multiple people back - so reviving hundreds of people who may have died years ago probably taps his total power, so he just couldn't bring back that many people at once.

He was asked to bring back 'all those killed by Freeza and his men'. That's a hell of a lot of people. He judged that he could only bring back 'those who had died in the last year'. Not that there was some kind of "time limit" imposed on him, he just didn't have the strength to do that much.

I strongly disagree. Kami didn't know how many people were being brought back by the wish. He was simply being asked if it were possible to bring back more than one person with one wish, to which he answers as long as it's not longer than a year. Kami wouldn't place the rule restriction if it were based on power alone, Shenron would.

Plus a year makes sense from another point of view: the soul and the living world have adjusted to that person being dead, the body's rotted away, etc.

Olivier: When does Toriyama ever pay attention?

As for the chronology, I think it's a mistake based on Toriyama + the Arlia filler. Note for the Raditz entry that it says Vegeta and Nappa go to Arlia and then enter a year's sleep to visit Earth. This implies that they made a side-journey to Arlia instead of a stop en-route.

In Weekly Jump 1991 #3 and 4, all the mangaka had to draw their characters in short X-mas/New Years scenarios. Toriyama decided to make his entries fit into the actual manga by showing all the characters who weren't fighting Freeza at the time. The first strip shows Kamesennin in a Santa suit, Lunch's official last appearence, and Oolong and Puar waiting by the x-mas tree. The second shows Bulma playing a racing video game in that crevasse she's hiding in, and everyone at Kaio's playing hide and seek (in which Toriyama forgot Yamcha's halo).

For some reason, these two strips were never included into the graphic novels -probably because you'd have to randomly interrupt a chapter to include them and because the two strips together only make up half a page. But because they're canon, it establishes that Freeza was fought on X-mas eve. Subtract the time it took for Goku to arrive and the time for Krillin + co to arrive on Namek, and you end up with November 14. Now subtract the necessary time to prepare the Namek ship and translate Namekkian and you arrive at November 4. Since they were admitted during the late-night into the hospital, we can assume it's between midnight and 4am so that time is correct. The battle took place the afternoon+evening before so we get late November 3, and "about 2 days" gets us early November 2, 762 when Goku is revived.

So far everything adds up great. Now take into effect that Toriyama used 6 months + 158 days as equal to a year through Kaio (silly Toriyama) and you end up with the Arlia thing taking place between October 12, 761 (Vegeta and Nappa leave the planet they're on) and November 2, 761 (Vegeta and Nappa leave Arlia for Earth).

Thus, mathematically it should take 11 months in the manga, but takes a year because of Toriyama's bad math, and takes 13 months instead of 12 for the anime.

[Thanos6]

Is it possible that Nappa still counted as one of "Freeza's men" when the wish was made so everyone he killed in East City would come back?

Yes, I realize Tenshinhan didn't come back, but if inbetween the East City slaughter, and killing Tenshinhan, was when he and Vegeta decided to revolt, then it's just possible...

I think. I could be wrong.

[Dayspring]

Is it possible that Nappa still counted as one of "Freeza's men" when the wish was made so everyone he killed in East City would come back?

Yes, I realize Tenshinhan didn't come back, but if inbetween the East City slaughter, and killing Tenshinhan, was when he and Vegeta decided to revolt, then it's just possible...

I think. I could be wrong.

Er, no. Tenshinhan had nothing to do with their revolt, it was learning about the Dragonballs. They rebelled when they left for Earth in the first place.

[Thanos6]

I'm not saying Tenshinhan had anything to do with the revolt; I'm using him as a benchmark since the "Freeza's men" wish didn't bring him back.

Remember, we're basically not talking about Vegeta here. Nappa was the sole causer of fatalities on Earth. So even if Vegeta decided that he'd use immortality to kill Freeza before he came to Earth, it doesn't matter.

And where do you get that they rebelled just by coming to Earth?

[Xyex]

I'm not saying Tenshinhan had anything to do with the revolt; I'm using him as a benchmark since the "Freeza's men" wish didn't bring him back.

Remember, we're basically not talking about Vegeta here. Nappa was the sole causer of fatalities on Earth. So even if Vegeta decided that he'd use immortality to kill Freeza before he came to Earth, it doesn't matter.

And where do you get that they rebelled just by coming to Earth?

IIRC, Freeza mentions it on Namek. Something about him going to Earth without his permission or something.

[Thanos6]

I'm not saying Tenshinhan had anything to do with the revolt; I'm using him as a benchmark since the "Freeza's men" wish didn't bring him back.

Remember, we're basically not talking about Vegeta here. Nappa was the sole causer of fatalities on Earth. So even if Vegeta decided that he'd use immortality to kill Freeza before he came to Earth, it doesn't matter.

And where do you get that they rebelled just by coming to Earth?

IIRC, Freeza mentions it on Namek. Something about him going to Earth without his permission or something.

Hmmm...not sure I remember that, but I'll take your word on it. Of course, the question remains, how much of that is accurate and how much is Freeza twisting the past to fit his own worldview. (IE, doing anything but breathing without direct permission = treason)

[Dayspring]

I'm not saying Tenshinhan had anything to do with the revolt; I'm using him as a benchmark since the "Freeza's men" wish didn't bring him back.

Remember, we're basically not talking about Vegeta here. Nappa was the sole causer of fatalities on Earth. So even if Vegeta decided that he'd use immortality to kill Freeza before he came to Earth, it doesn't matter.

And where do you get that they rebelled just by coming to Earth?

IIRC, Freeza mentions it on Namek. Something about him going to Earth without his permission or something.

Exactly. They stopped being Freeza's men when they decided to leave whatever planet they were on and head for Earth.