Questions about Tenshinhan's past (filler's fine)

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

I want the whole nine yards. Not a lot is said canonically, as I recall, but what can we speculate from what we do have? I want to know:

1. Is Tenshinhan's ancestry ever remotely hinted at?

2. When did Ten meet Chaozu?

3. Did Tsurusennin oversee Tenshinhan's training directly, or was he the sensei in the same sense as Kami-sama was to Son Goku? (with Tao Pai Pai being the one who actually taught him hands-on)

4. Just what is Tenshinhan's relationship to Tao Pai Pai?

5. Just what the hell where Tenshinahan and Chaozu doing with that whole Inishikochou scam during their first filler appearance? How does this fit in with their canon background?

Direct quotes/screencaps/panels would be nice for the canon stuff, otherwise just give me what you can. Thanks a lot guys (and one or two girls, apparently )

-DBD

[Duo]

The Daizenshuu says that Tenshinhan is descended from the extra-terrestrial "3-eyed tribe". That's all there is said about his racial origin. Many speculate he gained his third eye through "enlightenment" but nothing of the sort is in the Manga.

[desirecampbell]

The Daizenshuu says that Tenshinhan is descended from the extra-terrestrial "3-eyed tribe". That's all there is said about his racial origin. Many speculate he gained his third eye through "enlightenment" but nothing of the sort is in the Manga.

There's also a three-eyed demon enemy of Sun Wukong in Journey to the West.

[Sshadow5001]

Tenshinhan's relationship to Tao Pai Pai?

The only reason is that Tenshinhan looks up to him and hopes that one day he could be just as strong as he is,
i suppose you could say Tao was Tien's insperation.

[caejones]

Tenshinhan talks about Tao's honor at the 22nd Budokai, and in the 23rd he shows Tao as much respect as he can until Tao finally forces Tenshinhan to see him for what he truly is... I'd call it the honorable hero type thing...

As far as who did the teaching... hard to tell; there were flashbacks of Tao sparring with Ten.

[TripleRach]

In particular, Tenshinhan initially wanted to be a hitman just like Taopaipai was. But he changed his mind by the end of the 22nd Budoukai.

[Drunken Master]

Tenshinhan respected Taopaipai because he was the strongest person he knew, and was a crane master. He also killed without mercy, and showed no sign of weakness. That's what Tenshinhan wanted to be. But in a sense, Taopaipai was like a rival as well, at least in filler. They would battle, and Tenshinhan would try his hardest to defeat him, but always failed, at least early on. As for Tsurusennin...Tsurusennin had to spar with Tenshinhan, because at the 22nd Budokai, during his fight with Kamesennin, he declares Kamesennin is stronger than Tsurusennin.

The Daizenshuu says that Tenshinhan is descended from the extra-terrestrial "3-eyed tribe". That's all there is said about his racial origin. Many speculate he gained his third eye through "enlightenment" but nothing of the sort is in the Manga.

There's also a three-eyed demon enemy of Sun Wukong in Journey to the West.

Yep, Erlang Shen.

As for Inishikochou...That part was crap. It really has nothing to do with anything. It was just showing that they were evil and greedy for some reason.

[DemonKingPiccolo]

The Daizenshuu says that Tenshinhan is descended from the extra-terrestrial "3-eyed tribe". That's all there is said about his racial origin. Many speculate he gained his third eye through "enlightenment" but nothing of the sort is in the Manga.

There's also a three-eyed demon enemy of Sun Wukong in Journey to the West.

Last time I knew, Tenshinhan was inspired from that enemy.

[Drunken Master]

From Wiki

"Throughout the course of Erlang's duel between Sun Wukong, he had been the stronger adversary. After Many transformations that were performed in their duel (Sun Wukong fleeing as a fish; Erlang and Sun Wukong becoming larger birds, and so forth). Near the conclusion of the battle, he managed to see through Sun Wukong's disguise (as a temple) using his third-eye. He was defeated, but eventually defeated Wukong through teamwork with several other gods; Lao Tzu personally had dropped his refined golden ring that had hit Sun Wukong on the head, giving Erlang a chance to bring him down, and Erlang's dog bit him in the leg. After Sun Wukong had been captured, he and his heavenly soldiers would burn random areas of the Bloom Mountains. Erlang would once again be seen far later into the novel, in which he would assist Sun Wukong through chance by fighting against a certain ancient Dragon King and his allies."

[kinoko]

I want the whole nine yards. Not a lot is said canonically, as I recall, but what can we speculate from what we do have? I want to know:

1. Is Tenshinhan's ancestry ever remotely hinted at?

2. When did Ten meet Chaozu?

3. Did Tsurusennin oversee Tenshinhan's training directly, or was he the sensei in the same sense as Kami-sama was to Son Goku? (with Tao Pai Pai being the one who actually taught him hands-on)

4. Just what is Tenshinhan's relationship to Tao Pai Pai?

5. Just what the hell where Tenshinahan and Chaozu doing with that whole Inishikochou scam during their first filler appearance? How does this fit in with their canon background?

Direct quotes/screencaps/panels would be nice for the canon stuff, otherwise just give me what you can. Thanks a lot guys (and one or two girls, apparently )

-DBD

:DDD

1. The others have answered this question for me. I think it's all up to your interpretation of the character. Yes, Daizenshuu 7 states that Tenshinhan is the descendant of three-eyed extraterrestrials. The keyword being "descendant". Take that as you will. ...And yet, in the manga, in the anime, there is no hint of this extra info.

2. Not disclosed in the manga or the anime (although, IMHO, the anime does a wonderful job with their relationship (not talking about the third DB movie)). I think we can assume that Tenshinhan and Chaozu grew close just as Goku and Kuririn did: training under the same master, being classmates. Tenshinhan and Chaozu have the whole "senpai/kouhai" relationship, which is to say, "upperclassman/underclassman"; and there are certain "roles" each fulfills.

3. I love this one... My theory is that Tsuru-sennin was not the most hands-on of teachers. His methods were certainly different from Kame-sennin's, I think.

4. Tenshinhan is Tao Pai Pai's underclassman. He greatly admires him.

5. Tenshinhan and Chaozu were earning money for the next Tenkaichi Budokai (the one in which they meet Goku and Co. properly for the first time.) I think it was for travel to the Papaya Island where the tournament is held... or something along those lines. It serves more as a brief intro to these two important characters while doing interesting things to their canon background...

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

Ah, kinoko, those are exactly the sort of responses I was fishing for! Less cold-hard-facts, more imagination!

1. A lot's been said about this one. I almost didn't want to include it in my queries, but I was more or less interested if Tenshinhan ever made some sort of offhand comment about his past, which could MAYBE SORT OF KIND OF be misconstrued to support the Daizenshuu's ... information. ;P

2. Maybe it's just Movie 3 talking, but I'd really like to believe Chaozu was some sort of dignitary selected by Tsuru-sennin (or vice versa). The powdered face certainly calls to mind some sort of Chinese prince with me (God, that IS make-up, I hope).

3. This is entirely in-character for Tsuru-sennin, I've always been somewhat enamored with the idea. To be fair, even Kame-sennin wasn't a hands on teacher -- initially, at least (he let the training speak for itself). But yeah... Tsuru-sennin style seems to be less about the regimen and more about the "forbidden techniques". I always liked to see Tao as the guy that taught them to Ten, in addition to overall sparring. Almost like a second-in-command that did all the actual work while the Master himself just oversaw the training, at best.

4. Everything I just said. ^^ I just can't see Tenshinhan caring for him so much on reputation alone. If Tao is any indicator, Tenshinhan was being trained to be a cold rock. :]

5. Very imaginitive, I like this theory a lot. It's logical, and it works. I'd really like to hear some more of your thoughts on the whole Tenshinhan-Chaozu relationship. I've been kicking this idea around in my head for a while of adapting Dragon Ball to a format resembling a series of fantasy books (a la The Wheel of Time) and the relationships/themes revolving around Tenshinhan need much fleshing out. He's one of those rare characters who has a great deal of potential, storywise, but it's never really extrapolated upon. I'd like to tap into that.

[kinoko]

Ah, kinoko, those are exactly the sort of responses I was fishing for! Less cold-hard-facts, more imagination!

1. A lot's been said about this one. I almost didn't want to include it in my queries, but I was more or less interested if Tenshinhan ever made some sort of offhand comment about his past, which could MAYBE SORT OF KIND OF be misconstrued to support the Daizenshuu's ... information. ;P

2. Maybe it's just Movie 3 talking, but I'd really like to believe Chaozu was some sort of dignitary selected by Tsuru-sennin (or vice versa). The powdered face certainly calls to mind some sort of Chinese prince with me (God, that IS make-up, I hope).

3. This is entirely in-character for Tsuru-sennin, I've always been somewhat enamored with the idea. To be fair, even Kame-sennin wasn't a hands on teacher -- initially, at least (he let the training speak for itself). But yeah... Tsuru-sennin style seems to be less about the regimen and more about the "forbidden techniques". I always liked to see Tao as the guy that taught them to Ten, in addition to overall sparring. Almost like a second-in-command that did all the actual work while the Master himself just oversaw the training, at best.

4. Everything I just said. ^^ I just can't see Tenshinhan caring for him so much on reputation alone. If Tao is any indicator, Tenshinhan was being trained to be a cold rock. :]

5. Very imaginitive, I like this theory a lot. It's logical, and it works. I'd really like to hear some more of your thoughts on the whole Tenshinhan-Chaozu relationship. I've been kicking this idea around in my head for a while of adapting Dragon Ball to a format resembling a series of fantasy books (a la The Wheel of Time) and the relationships/themes revolving around Tenshinhan need much fleshing out. He's one of those rare characters who has a great deal of potential, storywise, but it's never really extrapolated upon. I'd like to tap into that.

Osu~! Leave it to me! *winks* XD

1. No off-hand comment from Tenshinhan, I don't believe...

2. Oy, movie 3. I love it to bits; it's really "only" an AU (an interesting one at that), a re-telling of the 22nd Budokai. I sort of like imagining, if you will, that Chaozu was "chosen" by Tsuru-sennin because of his psychic powers -- or rather, his potential. The old Crane uses his students, merely as instruments of revenge against his rival.. so I wouldn't put it past him to be all, "Hmmmm, psychic abilities... Fufufu..." *rubs hands together* ..Or something like that... ^^;;

Chaozu's character design is based off... A Chinese vampire, or something rooted in Chinese myth.

3. YESYESYES! I like all of your ideas! I like playing around with the notion that Tao Pai Pai was the one who oversaw the training, and that Tsuru-sennin was the puppet master, so to speak. He corrects his pupils' mistakes but hates getting his hands dirty when he doesn't want to.

4. Tenshinhan and Chaozu's relationship = cute and love. XDD

I love discussing the mysteries surrounding Tenshinhan. And there are just so many! *brainstorm like whoa*

...This reply got way more fangirl-y than I expected. Sorry to everyone. XP I crave more canon, both in general and in my response...

[Thanos6]

. I've been kicking this idea around in my head for a while of adapting Dragon Ball to a format resembling a series of fantasy books (a la The Wheel of Time)

You too, huh? *grins*

As for Chaozu, yes, I believe he's based off the Kyonshi.

[caejones]

If Chaozu is a vampire(Will have to research the particular creature in question to get facts straight...), well... that explains a few things, doesn't it?

Dragonball fantasy book series of elaborate-ness? Mega Awexome! *wonders if emoticons can be italicized* *doubts that images can be italicized so easily, but imagines the results anyway*


Bleah, if I ever get around to getting that RPG made, Ten and Chaozu's stories are going to have to be no smaller than Goku's. Oh, fun...

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

Kinoko: I'm really digging these ideas. Especially the concept underlying Tsuru-sennin choosing his students. Chaozu for his perceptive powers, and Tenshinhan... for whatever the hell he is (the jury's obviously out), Tsuru-sennin would certainly want to get his hands on the wonder-kid with the third eye and decidedly mystic abilities. Who knows? Maybe Tsuru-sennin even KNOWS about the savvy Three-Eyed People beforehand? I'd really be interested in putting together something wherein Tenshinhan and Chaozu's respective gifts were integral to some larger scheme. But their friendship ultimately throws a wrench in the plot? I like it.

Would you be willng to write some things for me at your leisure? Or, if you'd like to brainstorm, we could exchange e-mails or something via PM. you seem to possess the passion I need for this particular character/characters.

:]

Caejones: I'd love to know more about your RPG in-the-works. I take it it's a retelling of early Dragon Ball? Do you have anything written up yet for Ten/Chaozu? I'd be interested in reading it. And oh! I'm still waiting to read your paper on ki manipulation or whatever.

Thanos6: I'd be really interested to hear what your concept is for your proposed book series. I'd like to converge, if at all possible? Or at least brainstorm.

GO TEAM TENSHINHAN

[Thanos6]

Gladly. My idea, working name of "Dragonball Remix," is to be 42 small novels (in an homage to the original tankobon) that fixes plot holes and works in EVERYTHING Dragonball. I'm planning on working in filler and fixing it so it doesn't break canon; likewise for movies and even the OVA. I already have a lot of the canon fixes in mind.

Example 1: Everyone is waiting nervously for the Cell Games. Goku realizes that everyone should try and relax a bit, so he perusades everyone to go a cherry blossom festival. Suddenly Paragus arrives and warns them about the Legendary Super Saiyan. Before anyone decides to go, Goku does Shunkan Ido to meet with Cell.

"I already know what you desire, Son Goku; I have felt that massive ki. Go and fight it if you wish, I shall extend the date of the games if you are late. Should you and your friends win, you will be even stronger and make the games much more exciting. Should you lose, then I shall battle a truly legendary opponent when he arrives here."

I even have a fix in my mind to explain Piccolo's presence in movie 2 and 3, as well as the dead humans' presence in the latter. And so on.

[caejones]

Kinoko: I'm really digging these ideas. Especially the concept underlying Tsuru-sennin choosing his students. Chaozu for his perceptive powers, and Tenshinhan... for whatever the hell he is (the jury's obviously out), Tsuru-sennin would certainly want to get his hands on the wonder-kid with the third eye and decidedly mystic abilities. Who knows? Maybe Tsuru-sennin even KNOWS about the savvy Three-Eyed People beforehand? I'd really be interested in putting together something wherein Tenshinhan and Chaozu's respective gifts were integral to some larger scheme. But their friendship ultimately throws a wrench in the plot? I like it.

Hee, sounds like you're onto something intriguing...!

Caejones: I'd love to know more about your RPG in-the-works. I take it it's a retelling of early Dragon Ball? Do you have anything written up yet for Ten/Chaozu? I'd be interested in reading it. And oh! I'm still waiting to read your paper on ki manipulation or whatever.

Meh, the RPG is supposed to be as impossibly massive story-wise as I can manage. But I tend to hop around between projects and the bigger, more complex ones tend to undergo occasional restarts for various reasons... but eventually I concluded that Early DB was a must (originally I just started with Raditz... wow, that's something we haven't seen before...).
And I hope I can get work done on Energy Manipulation paper soon as well... though I might be wise to wait a couple weeks when a few more research sources may present themselves. Hmm...

Thanos6: I'd be really interested to hear what your concept is for your proposed book series. I'd like to converge, if at all possible? Or at least brainstorm.

GO TEAM TENSHINHAN

Squeeea! Thanos, thine ideas are lookin' sweet. And I spent way too many seconds lingering at the end of that sentence and realized I need to put my sudden desire to proofread and comment on everything to use in my own stuff from like... 2003. *headspin*
(Yah, and off in a far away land a small group of fellow fanficors have developed a web of continuity thanks to a couple of text RPGs, prompting posts today concerning how we're going to get Broli and Cooler to fit in the timeline since the movies don't work and they've been made essential to the fanfic-verse's continuity... wow, that sentence hurt. I'm closing these parentheses now.)

[Thanos6]

Thanos, thine ideas are lookin' sweet.

*blush*

I can give you my ideas for Cooler, if you want (Broli I just did).

[caejones]

Meh, I think time-wise we've kind of screwed up the time he has to die (We have this habbit of spontaneously changing relative ages around for convenience. ). But if you're interested in sharing, by all means...

[Thanos6]

Here's my basic plan:

After "killing" Freeza, Goku returns to Earth straightaway, but keeps his presence a secret from everyone but his family and closest friends. After Namek, he's been unable to achieve the Super Saiyan again and wants a relatively stress-free environment in which to try (in other words, no Vegeta barging around demanding "Kakarot, show me the Super Saiyan!").

Lord Slug invades, and the best Goku can do is the Giji or Quasi-Super Saiyan.

Not terribly long after, Cooler invades, and this time Goku is able to go all the way again, but again can't keep it. Worried about the villains who keep coming, especially since the last one had revenge against him on his mind, he leaves Earth to train some more, and finally masters it, not long before King Cold and Freeza come to Earth, and run into a mysterious youth...

(I'm still working on Metal Cooler; have the basic idea but not as many details)