Podcast Format & Direction Discussion

[Innagadadavida]

This is the first time I listened to your podcast. So I really don't know you guys or care much about your personal lives. Can you please just get to talking about DBZ without me having to listen to you guys babble on about random unfunny stuff?

[VegettoEX]

This is the first time I listened to your podcast. So I really don't know you guys or care much about your personal lives. Can you please just get to talking about DBZ without me having to listen to you guys babble on about random unfunny stuff?

Fair enough point. Counter-points?

I guess my own counter-point is that if you did not enjoy what you heard, do not feel the need to continue to listen. The wonderful thing about the internet is that we all have choices on what we do and do not partake it. I wouldn't assume for a millisecond that our show will have universal appeal, and I more than respect the fact that people may not want to listen.

Thanks for your feedback.

(I know I've typed up something somewhere about how and why the show is structured the way it is, but I can't for the life of me find it.)

[Innagadadavida]

I guess my own counter-point is that if you did not enjoy what you heard, do not feel the need to continue to listen. The wonderful thing about the internet is that we all have choices on what we do and do not partake it. I wouldn't assume for a millisecond that our show will have universal appeal, and I more than respect the fact that people may not want to listen.

You guys have a huge user base on your forums. A great selection of DB info on the main page. If it were me, I would strive for a wider appeal. A Dragon Ball podcast is a great idea, but your podcast is about half Dragon Ball half "what's going on with VegetoEX and his friends this week."

But you're right in that I don't have to listen to your podcast. And I probably won't be listening in the future. But even negative feedback can be a positive thing.

[Herms]

You can also just skip ahead to the topic. That's what I do if I don't feel like listening to a certain segment.

A Dragon Ball podcast is a great idea, but your podcast is about half Dragon Ball half "what's going on with VegetoEX and his friends this week."

I think the first couple minutes are like that, but once they get things underway it's pure DragonBall.

[VegettoEX]

I guess my own counter-point is that if you did not enjoy what you heard, do not feel the need to continue to listen. The wonderful thing about the internet is that we all have choices on what we do and do not partake it. I wouldn't assume for a millisecond that our show will have universal appeal, and I more than respect the fact that people may not want to listen.

You guys have a huge user base on your forums. A great selection of DB info on the main page. If it were me, I would strive for a wider appeal. A Dragon Ball podcast is a great idea, but your podcast is about half Dragon Ball half "what's going on with VegetoEX and his friends this week."

But you're right in that I don't have to listen to your podcast. And I probably won't be listening in the future. But even negative feedback can be a positive thing.

I'd actually be really happy to break-out a new thread/conversation about why the show is structured the way it is (though I'm pretty sure I've done one in the past), and explain what is, what isn't, etc. I actually have three or four pages full of hand-written notes intended for a "what makes a good podcast" blog entry, and a lot of that ties in. So I'll toss out a few things, and if the conversation seems like it would be better served broken out of the #0151 response thread, I'm happy to do it!

We do indeed have the "Stuff" segment at the beginning of the show. Before that even starts, you'll notice a couple things:

(1) We introduce the show number and date
(2) Short bumper music
(3) Short description of what the show actually is (about DragonBall), where it's based from (this website), and what we aim to do (cover anything and everything DragonBall)

So within about 30 seconds, you know whether or not this show is even going to be remotely up your alley in the first place. If you have no interested in DragonBall, you probably won't listen any further.

Then comes what we've affectionately named the "Stuff" segment. This is where we re-introduce (every single week) who the hosts are and where they come from. Why do we introduce ourselves every week? Same reason that we have the canned-opening every week: to get new listeners up-to-speed with what it is and who it is they're listening to, and give them a reason for CARING who they're listening to and why they SHOULD BE listening to them.

I can't tell you how many panels I've attended at conventions where the people just started talking. Wait, wait... Who are you? What is your experience? What do you do? Why should I care that you're sitting in front of me talking with me? These are all questions we aim to avoid RIGHT OFF THE BAT by answering them before the questions can even be formed.

Before we get into the news, that's where more of the "Stuff" comes in that you're seemingly not interested in. Let me explain why it's there, and why I feel it's important.

Listen to any popular podcast. Listen to any popular radio show. In fact, watch/listen to any popular, educational, authoritative programming. You will almost ALWAYS get some sort of softball banter at the beginning. This is very important because it plays a very crucial sociological role in making non-face-to-face connections between the hosts and listeners. There's no direct feedback, but you get a chance to feel like you're sitting there, hanging out, having a good time.

This time is relegated to approximately 5-10% of the overall show (averaging one hour in length). It's enough time to ease the listener in and make them feel like part of the family. I can't even begin to count the number of podcast hosts I feel are like friends to me that I've never actually met in real life. They're a part of my daily or weekly routine, and I get to sit and have a chat with them without actually speaking to them. It's these hints of personal chat that allow these connections to grow, and helps to foster a more deeply attached audience.

You can't buy that kind of stickiness. You have to earn it.

With regards to expanding the audience, we do that every week by covering a wide range of topics and addressing countries throughout the world. We don't just cover the Japanese version. We don't just cover the American releases. We don't just cover new licensing deals abroad. We don't just cover new video games. And when we don't personally feel like we're experts on a subject, we'll bring in someone who is. Whether it's someone studying/teaching abroad that has direct contact with the Japanese public (Andrew/Herms, and of course Julian), whether it's someone who actually worked on the a product you can buy (Steve Simmons), onwards and onwards. We have more of these coming in the future, including a cosplay episode.

The actual structure of the segments in the show is another crucial matter that I really took a lot of time to research and iron out before the show even began back in 2005. Nearly every topic we ever cover, whether it's about something new or old, can be a "timeless" topic. What I mean by that is that no matter when you download the show, the topic is interesting, can apply to today, and make sense out of context with the rest of the show. For those looking for immediate news and releases to keep up with on a weekly basis, that's all there for you. In a nutshell, I've tried to make a show where you can scroll down the list of episodes in iTunes, see a topic that strikes your fancy, and know that you can download it and still have it make sense even three years later. This is certainly helped by the fact that DragonBall's effectively been "over" for ten years, and it's a legacy that itself will never die .

The only reason I can think of for someone not being able to find SOMETHING they enjoy in the show and stick with it would be the hosts, themselves. Whether it's me, whether it's Meri, or whether it's Julian... if you don't like one of the above, or any combination of the above, there's absolutely nothing that can be done about that. We all are who we are, and that's what makes the group dynamic what it is and special. If you don't like me and you're never going to like me or the things I say... well, I'm really glad you dropped by to check it out, but I won't blame you for not sticking around. Lord knows I've dropped podcasts simply because I can't stand one of the hosts, regardless of the topic matter at hand.

Does any of that make any sense? Additional suggestions or can I clarify anything?

[Innagadadavida]

I'm not going to pretend like I know anything about the rules of Podcasting and radio shows, but I do know a little about psychology and what makes us people interested in things. I can see how you might be going for a family approach, oh we're just hanging out, but I don't think that's what everybody is looking for. And it certainly wasn't what I was expecting.

It's not reasonable to expect you to appeal to everybody, that's not what I'm suggesting. But listening to your show (particularly the beginning) reminds me of these little tapes I used to record of me and my sister making a fake radio show.

Moreover, when you get to the real meat of the podcast, like in 0065, you begin to tear into the season box sets. Yeah, sure, some people may not like the widescreen, and some people may. You guys just go one way, you express your displeasure with no questioning. Nobody to play devil's advocate, nobody to respond to your arguments. Which can be viewed as propaganda.

That's just one show I know. And believe me, my intentions here are not to challenge you guys or make fun of your work in any way at all. It's just me expressing my opinion. And that's all it is; my opinion.

[VegettoEX]

I'm not going to pretend like I know anything about the rules of Podcasting and radio shows, but I do know a little about psychology and what makes us people interested in things. I can see how you might be going for a family approach, oh we're just hanging out, but I don't think that's what everybody is looking for. And it certainly wasn't what I was expecting.

Understood. Not everyone's going to like it. At the same time, it's been working so far; listenership continues to grow, traffic to the website continues to grow, and experimentation with the show has at least proven to me what's working best for us.

It's not reasonable to expect you to appeal to everybody, that's not what I'm suggesting. But listening to your show (particularly the beginning) reminds me of these little tapes I used to record of me and my sister making a fake radio show.

Well, it's a fake radio show .

Moreover, when you get to the real meat of the podcast, like in 0065, you begin to tear into the season box sets. Yeah, sure, some people may not like the widescreen, and some people may. You guys just go one way, you express your displeasure with no questioning. Nobody to play devil's advocate, nobody to respond to your arguments. Which can be viewed as propaganda.

Not to bring it back to FUNimation season sets discussion, but if you listen to what's said in the episode, the opinion given at the end is that since you now have factual information in front of you, your decision is your decision and we will stand by whatever it is your decision is as a fan. We may not like these sets and will not purchase them, but fully understand and support the reasoning behind anyone doing so.

On the flip side, it *is* our show and we *will* have opinions to share. One of the reasons people tune in is to get that opinionated dynamic. To once again reference dropping podcasts based on hosts, I can also tell you that there are particular podcasts hosts that I love IN SPITE OF their beliefs and opinions. They challenge my own thoughts and pre-conceptions, give me the information I'm looking for, and provide a new outlook. If we can achieve even just part of that, it means the world to me.

That's just one show I know. And believe me, my intentions here are not to challenge you guys or make fun of your work in any way at all. It's just me expressing my opinion. And that's all it is; my opinion.

No-one ever hinted that you're not entitled to share your opinion, and I hope that you'll find your opinions are not only welcome here, but encouraged. You don't need to put up any type of defensive wall each time stating that you're sharing an opinion; it's inferred and sought after!

[Freeza Heika]

Moreover, when you get to the real meat of the podcast, like in 0065, you begin to tear into the season box sets. Yeah, sure, some people may not like the widescreen, and some people may. You guys just go one way, you express your displeasure with no questioning. Nobody to play devil's advocate, nobody to respond to your arguments. Which can be viewed as propaganda.

Not to bring it back to FUNimation season sets discussion, but if you listen to what's said in the episode, the opinion given at the end is that since you now have factual information in front of you, your decision is your decision and we will stand by whatever it is your decision is as a fan. We may not like these sets and will not purchase them, but fully understand and support the reasoning behind anyone doing so.

On the flip side, it *is* our show and we *will* have opinions to share. One of the reasons people tune in is to get that opinionated dynamic. To once again reference dropping podcasts based on hosts, I can also tell you that there are particular podcasts hosts that I love IN SPITE OF their beliefs and opinions. They challenge my own thoughts and pre-conceptions, give me the information I'm looking for, and provide a new outlook. If we can achieve even just part of that, it means the world to me.

I certainly don't want to hear my own opinion regurgitated back at me. I am a dubbie for going on 12 years and have only started watching any substantial amount of the original 2 or 3 months ago. It is because the show is hosted by people who are all fans of the original (even though I can perceive the attempts to be diplomatic to dub fans at times) that I am able to hear about Dragonball in a new way and have added new facets to my own Dragonball fandom by listening to the podcast.

[SSJ2bardock]

No-one ever hinted that you're not entitled to share your opinion, and I hope that you'll find your opinions are not only welcome here, but encouraged. You don't need to put up any type of defensive wall each time stating that you're sharing an opinion; it's inferred and sought after!

Preaching to the choir my friend.

[JulieYBM]

Woah now, dropping the 'stuff' segment would be a tragedy at this point. I live for it at this point because they're personalities in the Dragonball fandom now, call me insane but I do sort of feel their happiness and sadness because I'm invested in pretty much everything their current set-up gives us.

[Minigt]

Woah now, dropping the 'stuff' segment would be a tragedy at this point. I live for it at this point because they're personalities in the Dragonball fandom now, call me insane but I do sort of feel their happiness and sadness because I'm invested in pretty much everything their current set-up gives us.

Me too!

[VegettoEX]

(Splitting this off into a new thread, since it only tangentially relates to Episode #0151, at this point.)

Couple random things I wanted to toss out there:

I certainly don't want to hear my own opinion regurgitated back at me. I am a dubbie for going on 12 years and have only started watching any substantial amount of the original 2 or 3 months ago. It is because the show is hosted by people who are all fans of the original (even though I can perceive the attempts to be diplomatic to dub fans at times) that I am able to hear about Dragonball in a new way and have added new facets to my own Dragonball fandom by listening to the podcast.

That's really wonderful to hear. Thanks so much.

but your podcast is about half Dragon Ball half "what's going on with VegetoEX and his friends this week."

I know it's already been addressed, but I wanted to some facts to put in. I took this particular episode (#0151), which is a wonderful example since it's almost exactly an hour in length, and all of the sections very closely match their intended averages. Hopefully I did all the math correctly .

0:00:00 - 0:00:06: 6 seconds / ~0%: Episode Number & Date
0:00:06 - 0:00:25: 19 seconds / ~0%: Opening Bumper Into Canned Opening Description
0:00:25 - 0:08:09: 7 minutes 16 seconds: ~12%: "Stuff"
0:08:09 - 0:12:08: 3 minutes 59 seconds / ~7%: News
0:12:08 - 0:35:25: 23 minutes 17 seconds / ~39%: Topic
0:35:25 - 0:46:12: 10 minutes 47 seconds / ~18%: Top 5
0:46:12 - 0:48:00: 1 minute 48 seconds / ~3%: Releases
0:48:00 - 0:58:28: 10 minutes 28 seconds / ~17%: E-mails
0:58:28 - 1:00:10: 1 minute 42 seconds / ~3%: Ending

So this particular episode's "Stuff" went a little over the 5-10% that I try to keep it to, but when you consider that the news and releases were slightly brief this week (which they tend to be towards the end of a month), it makes sense. At the same time, the "Stuff" segment at least consisted of topical (what we found to be) hilarity with the children's activity book.

Here's another statement I've already responded to in part, but the word got stuck in my head on the way home and reminded me of what I've talked about in the past:

Nobody to play devil's advocate, nobody to respond to your arguments. Which can be viewed as propaganda.

I think one of the reasons why our show is important is that we are *not* FUNimation, we are *not* Viz, we are *not* Atari, we are *not* Toei, we are *not* Pony Canyon, we are *not* Namco-Bandai... and so on and so forth. We are not shills, and we will never sugar-coat a valid, researched, and fair opinion.

If and when we are donated prizes from a corporate sponsor (which has been all of... uhh... rarely), we make note of it, and it cannot and will not affect any "journalistic integrity". As an example, a North American / Atari release of Super DragonBall Z was donated by Filter Magazine (along with a t-shirt) for a prize on the show. You may think to yourself how I've praised that game up and down, and especially wonder if there are shenanigans since the game has a somewhat negative perception among the typical American audience. Well, consider that we announced said contest on Episode #0042 (10 September 2006), yet the actual review of the game (based on the Japanese version, and therefore with absolutely zero sway from Atari or its marketers) took place months prior on Episode #0034 (09 July 2006). It's one example, but I feel it's a very solid one.

In the end, I probably sound incredibly defensive about the show, and perhaps I am. I have a lot put into it, and quite frankly, I absolutely love it to death. That doesn't mean I'm not open to additional ideas and suggestions, and my long posts (like Kunzait_83) absolutely do not mean that there is no way to get through to me!

[SSj_Rambo]

I personally love the show the way it is. To take away the personal segments and tidbits would be a strike directly to my heart. It's not like the personal information that we get is reducing the amount of Dragonball information; they talk about certain aspects of Dragonball and go pretty much as deep as possible into them, but there are nice little light-hearted bursts in between that give us a look into the real life of the people on the show, and to me that is awesome!

Getting to hear about your guys' every day lives and all of your funny, little stories are one of my favorite parts of this podcast and I would never ever want them removed!!

[LSSJ4]

That'd be sad if you guys rid of that little segment. I wants human hosts, not robots. It also gives of a friendly and welcoming vibe as well.

[Freeza Heika]

I especially need the stuffage on the rare occasion that the topic doesn't interest me. In those cases, it's my favorite part of the show.

[disturbed001]

Just to put in my little piece:

I love the way you guys do the show, I really like hearing some off-topic stuff, and just kinda of a "how're you doing". I think it adds to the entertainment and I would never even skip those parts to get to the main chunk. I love it all. You guys are the only podcast I listen to

[fogdark]

I wont say that I've enjoyed every stuff section I've listened on the podcast, but I must say, it is a part of the show that shouldn't go away.
Every week we get to know more about those 3 pretty cool guys... and girl. And thats really important to me, since it makes more enjoyable the show, because I feel like part of the group.
I mean, I'm a guy from Spain, listening to stuff that happened to a guy in New Jersey, USA. Usually I wouldn't care, but it happens that such guy hosts this podcast, and even if you don't care now, I'm pretty sure you would begin to wonder about their lives eventually. Because listening podcast after podcast, you would get familiar with those voices that bring you DB stuff every week, and it would be only natural to want to know more about them.

[Freeza Heika]

The podcast needs one more thing and one more thing only. More Andrew Deluxe. He may not be a fan of Dragonball per say, but he really spices up the show's dynamic. Plus, he seems to agitate Mike just the right amount in a single episode (based on VG Convos listening and the few episodes that he has been in of Daizex).

[Hao_Kaiser]

This time is relegated to approximately 5-10% of the overall show (averaging one hour in length). It's enough time to ease the listener in and make them feel like part of the family. I can't even begin to count the number of podcast hosts I feel are like friends to me that I've never actually met in real life. They're a part of my daily or weekly routine, and I get to sit and have a chat with them without actually speaking to them. It's these hints of personal chat that allow these connections to grow, and helps to foster a more deeply attached audience.

I totally agree with you. I've never met you, or even communicated with you at all (outside the odd IRC conversation, maybe), and yet I really feel like I know you guys. I honestly care about your daily lives (in the least creepy way possible, of course). Mike LaBrie is a pretty cool guy.

I really love the random, personal crap you guys throw in. Just as an example, on episode #0060-something (it was the one about Dragon Ball in video game magazines, if I recall correctly), Andrew told a story about how he had gone to Taco Bell, but forgotten his wallet at your (Mike's) place. The line "You didn't think the Taco Bell would be open" has continued to resonate with me, and is a bit of an in-joke between me and another friend.

I mean, if it was just straight up Dragon Ball information with no personality behind the hosts, what would be the point? You know about Dragon Ball, I know about Dragon Ball. I don't want to waste an hour of my life hearing flat out information about Dragon Ball, I could pull up the site and just read if I wanted that. The reason I've listened to the podcast since it launched three years ago, despite my 24.6 kbps dial-up connection, is that I want someone else's opinion about Dragon Ball.

I realize that it's kinda dumb that I'm defending something that I have no involvement with, just because I enjoy it. At the same time, you aren't being charged anything to listen to the podcast. No one is forcing you to listen to the first 10 minutes of the show, or any of it, for that matter.

If what's out there doesn't appeal to you, then make something that does.

Also, the podcast is a little far along to be making such suggestions, isn't it? I mean, if Mike was to suddenly change everything around, the majority of the listeners would probably be pretty irritated./lamesidenote

[SSj_Rambo]

The podcast needs one more thing and one more thing only. More Andrew Deluxe. He may not be a fan of Dragonball per say, but he really spices up the show's dynamic. Plus, he seems to agitate Mike just the right amount in a single episode (based on VG Convos listening and the few episodes that he has been in of Daizex).

Definetely! He is an awesome part of the show (when he's on) and really gives a nice perspective on everything.