"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Herms]

The Roshi quote is from Toriyama's comments on his character deisgns for the film, at the start of Volume "F". It's not a full-fledged interview or anything.

[Saiga]

To me, that sounds like RF is the result of Roshi "putting his mind to it". And the fact that he hadn't is why he didn't appear that strong beforehand. I mean that quote makes no sense to explain why Roshi is stronger in the film, if Roshi hadn't actually trained or anything.

[Noah]

I have the feeling that they will let Vegeta defeat Freeza in the anime RoF Arc

[MaGyunia]

The average Freeza soldier is probably within the power level Muten Roshi can handle, if they don't gang up on him at the same time. They did laugh in the Freeza saga on Namek when they measured the suppressed-Ki Namek-sei-jins at 1.000 each, but that might have been just because there were lots of them around, whereas there were only 3 Namek-sei-jins, making up a total of 3.000. I highly doubt the average Freeza soldier, whether on Namek or during his invasion of Earth in Fukkatsu no F, has a power of 1.000 or even close to that. They have proper defending and fighting armor and they're all apparently well-trained and able to fly, etc., but I'd say that one on one none of them would have a chance against Muten Roshi, regardless of whether he trained and got any stronger when compared to what he always was throughout the series.

Muten Roshi worked a lot for centuries to reach the level of power he has by the time we get introduced to him as Earth's strongest in DB, it would incredibly hard to believe, especially taking into account he's a mere human, that he underwent a major power-up after any supposed potential training. Besides, he's a martial arts expert, though not so much an expert in Ki manipulation, etc. The good old Muten Roshi we've always known throughout DB and DBZ would definitely be able to take on a bunch of Freeza soldiers easily, but if they ganged up on him he'd have trouble, as seen in Fukkatsu no F.

On another note, but still discussing Muten Roshi, I welcomed his comeback to the fighting front in the movie - and hopefully in the Freeza saga within DBSuper -, along with Piccolo, Tenshinhan and Krillin (all of them with huge differences in power scales, though) instead of the old routine of making him a comic character trying to do sexually abusive and pervert stuff, which isn't getting old now, it's gotten old even in the Majin Buu arc or even before that, just like Chi Chi's constant nagging did. Matching him to the average Freeza soldiers is the perfect opportunity for even Muten Roshi have a successful fight. His power has become obsolete as soon as the first half of DB was reached, and Tenshinhan's, Krillin's and Yamcha's also did by the Freeza saga, and even #18's and Piccolo's extreme level of power has been crushed by the top warriors by the Majin Buu arc, and now even Ultimate Gohan and Majin Buu, or even Super Saiya-jin 2 Vegeta or Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku or Gotenks are useless against the newest antagonists, stages and levels of power, but that shouldn't mean they shouldn't get their fighting time, display their techniques and have some proper screen time. The difference between them, and the one between so many warriors, whether good or evil, is insane, but it's not just about strength and power, it's about keeping them "alive" by giving them, including even Muten Roshi, some proper fighting time. None of the fundamental characters from DB and DBZ should be forgotten, and from time to time, regardless of their power when compared to the actual top warriors in the Universe at this point, they should get, and did get/are getting their moments to shine. I hope they don't screw that up in the Freeza arc in DBSuper when compared to the Fukkatsu no F. I'm quite hyped to see just how they'll approach the enormity of stuff that needs to be rethought in the form of a retelling of the movie's events, both what we saw on-screen and what happened off-screen between BoG and Fukkatsu no F.

I have the feeling that they will let Vegeta defeat Freeza in the anime RoF Arc

Highly, highly doubt that. Not that I personally wouldn't want it to happen, as a hardcore Vegeta fan. Watching him beat the s*** out of Freeza after the humiliation he was subjected to was good enough, he basically won the fight and was about to finish Freeza off with his own hands in Fukkatsu no F, but taking into account the fact that Goku just has to be either the main hero or the guy who delivers the final blow regardless of anything else, just like what happened in the movie, I'd go for Goku being the one to finish Freeza just like in Fukkatsu no F. Don't get me wrong, that's not what I'd like, I'd like Vegeta to be the one to save the day without Goku's help whatsoever and become, at least temporarily, the main hero to get rid of the menace by killing them, but don't get your hopes too high on that. What they shouldn't screw up, though, was another one of the good things about the movie, which was Vegeta's flawless beating of Freeza, which has quite a lot of significance for a hardcore Vegeta fan, by getting rid of that; they did change a few things here and there in the Beerus arc when compared to BoG, but I hope that whatever changes or adaptations they make to the Freeza arc when compared to Fukkatsu no F isn't the fact that Vegeta doesn't get to beat the s*** out of Freeza. That just has to be there, just the way it happened in the movie (not saying it didn't have its flaws, though, many more than BoG, in fact).

[pacz360]

I have the feeling that they will let Vegeta defeat Freeza in the anime RoF Arc

I think they'll have both vegeta and goku beat him this time imo.

[dbzfan7]

I have the feeling that they will let Vegeta defeat Freeza in the anime RoF Arc

Unlikely as they won't change the beats from the F arc. A smidge may change, but the overall story will probably be the same. It probably won't stop people from hyping up that possibility like they did back before the movie, and SSJ3 Vegeta for Super. Vegeta's already prominent in Super, so he's guarantee'd plenty of good screen time.

[MaGyunia]

An entire episode dedicated to Mr. Satan's mischief and, again, as always, taking public recognition and credit for beating a guy he can't even remember the name of, after Cell and Majin Buu. I wouldn't call this a filler episode, but yeah, not much worth watching here. I wasn't expecting them to make fun of Piccolo once again, not only is it getting old, it's actually making me pretty pissed off. Piccolo is a stoic, incredibly powerful warrior and previous evil maniacal villain, enough of making fun of him by putting him in awkward positions.

And apparently we'll get Vegeta involved in cooking again in next episode.

Loved the scene where Vegeta is on the mountains, the detail of the sand and dust piling up in his boots meaning he's been there motionless for perhaps days is a perfect Vegeta-alone moment. And again, he said "omae" when referring to Kakarotto, not "kisama", which just reflects and illustrates yet another stage he reached in terms of his respect towards him in terms of interactions with Goku and feelings towards him.

[soulnova]

An entire episode dedicated to Mr. Satan's mischief and, again, as always, taking public recognition and credit for beating a guy he can't even remember the name of, after Cell and Majin Buu. I wouldn't call this a filler episode, but yeah, not much worth watching here. I wasn't expecting them to make fun of Piccolo once again, not only is it getting old, it's actually making me pretty pissed off. Piccolo is a stoic, incredibly powerful warrior and previous evil maniacal villain, enough of making fun of him by putting him in awkward positions.

And apparently we'll get Vegeta involved in cooking again in next episode.

Loved the scene where Vegeta is on the mountains, the detail of the sand and dust piling up in his boots meaning he's been there motionless for perhaps days is a perfect Vegeta-alone moment. And again, he said "omae" when referring to Kakarotto, not "kisama", which just reflects and illustrates yet another stage he reached in terms of his respect towards him in terms of interactions with Goku and feelings towards him.

Can you remind me, please, what omae means in this context?

[Chuquita]

An entire episode dedicated to Mr. Satan's mischief and, again, as always, taking public recognition and credit for beating a guy he can't even remember the name of, after Cell and Majin Buu. I wouldn't call this a filler episode, but yeah, not much worth watching here. I wasn't expecting them to make fun of Piccolo once again, not only is it getting old, it's actually making me pretty pissed off. Piccolo is a stoic, incredibly powerful warrior and previous evil maniacal villain, enough of making fun of him by putting him in awkward positions.

And apparently we'll get Vegeta involved in cooking again in next episode.

Loved the scene where Vegeta is on the mountains, the detail of the sand and dust piling up in his boots meaning he's been there motionless for perhaps days is a perfect Vegeta-alone moment. And again, he said "omae" when referring to Kakarotto, not "kisama", which just reflects and illustrates yet another stage he reached in terms of his respect towards him in terms of interactions with Goku and feelings towards him.

Can you remind me, please, what omae means in this context?

I got curious too, so I googled. I do want to wait for a more knowledgeable speaker's reply, but for what it's worth Wikipedia says:

Kisama - extremely hostile and rude; Historically very formal, but has developed in an ironic sense to show the speaker's extreme hostility / outrage towards the addressee.

Omae - very informal ; Similar to anta, but used by men with more frequency.[7] Expresses the speaker's higher status or age, or a very casual relationship among peers. Often used with おれ ore.[7] Very rude if said to elders. Commonly used by men to address their wife or lover, paralleling the female use of "anata".

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns

[soulnova]

An entire episode dedicated to Mr. Satan's mischief and, again, as always, taking public recognition and credit for beating a guy he can't even remember the name of, after Cell and Majin Buu. I wouldn't call this a filler episode, but yeah, not much worth watching here. I wasn't expecting them to make fun of Piccolo once again, not only is it getting old, it's actually making me pretty pissed off. Piccolo is a stoic, incredibly powerful warrior and previous evil maniacal villain, enough of making fun of him by putting him in awkward positions.

And apparently we'll get Vegeta involved in cooking again in next episode.

Loved the scene where Vegeta is on the mountains, the detail of the sand and dust piling up in his boots meaning he's been there motionless for perhaps days is a perfect Vegeta-alone moment. And again, he said "omae" when referring to Kakarotto, not "kisama", which just reflects and illustrates yet another stage he reached in terms of his respect towards him in terms of interactions with Goku and feelings towards him.

Can you remind me, please, what omae means in this context?

I got curious too, so I googled. I do want to wait for a more knowledgeable speaker's reply, but for what it's worth Wikipedia says:

Kisama - extremely hostile and rude; Historically very formal, but has developed in an ironic sense to show the speaker's extreme hostility / outrage towards the addressee.

Omae - very informal ; Similar to anta, but used by men with more frequency.[7] Expresses the speaker's higher status or age, or a very casual relationship among peers. Often used with おれ ore.[7] Very rude if said to elders. Commonly used by men to address their wife or lover, paralleling the female use of "anata".

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns

(๑☉ᴗ☉) ♥ I like that explanation.

[Chuquita]

I read the definition and I was all "Oh WOW, Vegeta."
(*≧ω≦*)

Beerus questioning Vegeta about Gokû, and Vegeta's reaction still runs through my head.

I'm so hungry for them to see each other again after episode 14, but I'm almost certain they won't until Gokû chases after Vegeta to Beerus and Whis' place.

Once Gokû does meet up with them, however, fun begins. :3

[Araki]

I was watching the next episode preview now and Goku says "if only i knew the master who trained Beerus-sama...i would really like to be his disciple!"

So i guess that's why they delayed this revelation, it would be really hard to keep him around until Pan's birth.

[MaGyunia]

Can you remind me, please, what omae means in this context?

It's basically an informal way of referring to someone else, unlike "kisama", which is extremely rude and displays hostility, or "anata" or "kimi", which are much more formal and happen in a context of well-mannered speaking and respect. It's basically the "you" version of "ore" (I). Vegeta does refer to himself as "ore" throughout the entirety of DBZ, but refers to most others as "kisama". One would expect such a self-proud warrior to use something like "watashi" or "boku" to refer to himself, like Piccolo Daimao, Cell, Freeza or Beerus, but it also has to do with how well-mannered you are when you speak, whether it's genuine or not (in Freeza's case, his well-mannered way of speaking isn't genuine, when he shows his true colors by the end of his fight with Goku on Namek he uses "kisama" instead of "kimi" and "ore" instead of his typical "boku".

I got curious too, so I googled. I do want to wait for a more knowledgeable speaker's reply, but for what it's worth Wikipedia says:

Not intending to be rude with you or anything, but I'm quite knowledgeable when it comes to Japanese. Watching every single episode of DBZ, all day, every day, for decades, hundreds of times will do that you. I possess quite a large amount of vocabulary and even a significant knowledge of grammar, and I gained all that from DBZ.

[Avery]

Vegeta did refer to Goku with "omae" at least once in the Artificial Humans arc and even before that, when he was dying on Namek.

[VegettoEX]

Not intending to be rude with you or anything, but I'm quite knowledgeable when it comes to Japanese. Watching every single episode of DBZ, all day, every day, for decades, hundreds of times will do that you. I possess quite a large amount of vocabulary and even a significant knowledge of grammar, and I gained all that from DBZ.

Very little of what you'll learn by watching DBZ is actually important/relevant/decent with regard to Japanese grammar. It's exaggerated dialog aimed at children. For example, you didn't mention above how "boku" is generally something used by children; it's certainly not something a "proud warrior" would use. Freeza would use it (does he actually? blanking here) because he's a spoiled brat, not because he's being polite. An actual proud warrior using "boku" would probably be laughed out of his clan.

Folks here have come to expect translations and analysis from peers that have formally studied the language, live(d) in the country, etc. well beyond just their interest in DBZ.

(I say the above explanation also as someone with no extended formal study of the language, so take it as you will.)

[MaGyunia]

Not intending to be rude with you or anything, but I'm quite knowledgeable when it comes to Japanese. Watching every single episode of DBZ, all day, every day, for decades, hundreds of times will do that you. I possess quite a large amount of vocabulary and even a significant knowledge of grammar, and I gained all that from DBZ.

Very little of what you'll learn by watching DBZ is actually important/relevant/decent with regard to Japanese grammar. It's exaggerated dialog aimed at children. For example, you didn't mention above how "boku" is generally something used by children; it's certainly not something a "proud warrior" would use. Freeza would use it (does he actually? blanking here) because he's a spoiled brat, not because he's being polite. An actual proud warrior using "boku" would probably be laughed out of his clan.

Folks here have come to expect translations and analysis from peers that have formally studied the language, live(d) in the country, etc. well beyond just their interest in DBZ.

(I say the above explanation also as someone with no extended formal study of the language, so take it as you will.)

Hmm, perhaps I should have pointed out that whatever knowledge I gained from watching DBZ on a constant basis for over a decade, coupled with a natural propensity to languages, enables me to clear some doubts some other users might have, which was just the case. She didn't know the difference between "omae" and "kisama", and I was explaining it to her, as for me it's such a basic concept. Not criticizing her, obviously, nobody has the obligation to know a word of Japanese even if they're into anime or DBZ. I was actually trying to be helpful.

Yes, "boku" is especially used by children (most notably Gohan), but both Freeza and Beerus use it, as you said correctly, because they're spoiled brats, but isn't Vegeta himself not a spoiled brat to some degree?

In any circumstances, "watashi" would be the ideal term to refer to oneself in either a formal context or when you're a well-spoken individual with respect towards yourself, and Piccolo Daimao and Cell, just to name a few of the most prominent ones, use it. I forgot to mention that, surprisingly, Piccolo himself doesn't use "watashi", but "ore", or, in some cases, "ore-sama", despite being a well-spoken, intelligent, rigid, proud and formal individual to interact with. He uses "kisama" to refer even to some individuals he respects, like Vegeta (in this case, he doesn't actually respect pretty much anybody), never "omae" or "anata".

But thanks for clearing that up, VegettoEX, but the fact that you pointed out that I could have severe flaws in terms of knowledge of Japanese doesn't really apply here, as I was just trying to help someone who, presumably, knows less than I do. Perhaps I should have been more thorough and detailed in the post you referred to.

[dbgtFO]

In any circumstances, "watashi" would be the ideal term to refer to oneself in either a formal context or when you're a well-spoken individual with respect towards yourself, and Piccolo Daimao and Cell, just to name a few of the most prominent ones, use it.

Don't forget Goku's first encounter with Beerus, where he has to be all polite and uses that word

[LightBing]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/tidbits/personal-pronouns/

This link seems pertinent to the discussion, interesting and informative. Thank you to kanzenshuu for it, by the way.

[Sandubadear]

In any circumstances, "watashi" would be the ideal term to refer to oneself in either a formal context or when you're a well-spoken individual with respect towards yourself, and Piccolo Daimao and Cell, just to name a few of the most prominent ones, use it.

Don't forget Goku's first encounter with Beerus, where he has to be all polite and uses that word

Goku uses 'watakushi' IIRC, which is even more formal.

[MaGyunia]

In any circumstances, "watashi" would be the ideal term to refer to oneself in either a formal context or when you're a well-spoken individual with respect towards yourself, and Piccolo Daimao and Cell, just to name a few of the most prominent ones, use it.

Don't forget Goku's first encounter with Beerus, where he has to be all polite and uses that word

Goku uses 'watakushi' IIRC, which is even more formal.

Exactly. Since he has virtually no idea how to properly address people depending on the formality of a conversation, he either doesn't use "desu" when he's supposed or overuses it, and the same goes for his usage of "watakushi" instead of just plain "watashi". It's interesting, though, that the only ones Goku adds the suffix "-sama" to are Kaiou-sama and Beerus (Birusu-sama), but knowing Goku's character, I'd say that's just because he for some reason conditioned himself to say the names that way, not because he's constantly considerate and respectful towards both of them (certainly not towards Kaiou-sama, whose house he continuously destroys, whose planet he uses as his training grounds and who he actually had indirectly killed).