"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

Even in the TV series, the plot verbally denied anyone being stronger than Beerus in an actual fight. Instead, the narrative rebuked such a claim. Particularly pointing out, only losing in the fashion of arm wrestling, to a god, unknown. This was even confirmed by Herms himself here...

https://twitter.com/MaxPowers777/status ... 0300849153

It's the same throughout all of Super, regardless of the medium. Vegetto in the Future Trunks saga, surpassing Beerus, nothing but a hypothetical in question. Even Toyotaro said it was the case back then. Broly's dialogue in relation to Beerus was left up in the air too. When in comparison to antagonists, concerning power, Beerus has never been written in stone to be eclipsed by anyone yet.

[EGonzo]

This was an all right chapter, but for the start of a final battle it's really underwhelming.
I really like the way Toyo draws UI Goku, the poses and movements looks really cool, but I don't like that Omen is just MUI but weaker; the anime had Omen having full defense but the attacks not working because he was still thinking. Here the attacks are powerful. Also, it kind of sucks that the battle itself is so bland and unoriginal; the only stand-out moments are basically taken from the anime (the "Kefla finisher" and the air punches).

[Tai Lung]

someone does not bother the attitude of beerus in this saga, if moro already surpasses the gods he should care how dangerous he is currently ... what happened with the god who intervened by exterminating zamasu

What seems really stupid is to keep bringing stronger than GoDs characters and have Beerus fishing like he is too cool for school. This is the 3rd enemy that is said to have surpassed the GoDs. He couldn't take part vs Jiren, ok; Broly's growth was gradual so it was okay for him to not take it seriously and stay on the beach, and Whis was there too, I guess, but Moro?? it's been going on for months now, he is a historical threat for the kaioshin who are linked to his own life, he's been living eons bored as fuck because there is no one to play with, here you have a great challenge, way bigger than the two bums he's taken under his wing, wouldn't this be what he's been waiting for?

But fuck all the in-universe reasons, what's the point of having stronger than GoD foes that never fight a GoD. What's the point of having GoDs if they never ever do anything? he's become THE peanut gallery and I really don't like it. Is he not going to fight for real ever in the show?
I mean, have a villain that requires the intervention of the hakaishin and there you have the stakes raised like never before, we know Beerus isn't in EoZ, so him taking part in a big fight might actually make us the readers not as sure as always of the outcome. He can actually die, unlike Goku, Vegeta, etc.

He is starting to look like a pussy, really, is he afraid? is he trying to save face or is he going to be retconned again to be even out of FP Moro's league and all of this is just small potatoes?

Beerus doesn't seem like he cares honestly. For some stupid reason he seems just fine with Moro existing and doesn't seem to even be interested in challenging him. Typical behavior. It's been months and he doesn't care.

Well it's Beerus's thing to kind of slack and not do his job. We all need to remember who we're talking about, Koitsukai. This is the same guy who let Frieza control a good portion of galaxy at one point and allowed Buu to pretty much murder the kai's and planet's worth of people. This isn't the first time Beerus has shown disregard to threat's to his universe, even the ones with history against his lifelinks like Buu and Moro. You'd think after the Multiversal Tournament he'd give a damn slightly but it appears the event slipped from his mind. The last time Beerus did a decent job properly was with Present Zamasu.

These GoD threats are clearly just for Goku and Vegeta to progress and get stronger, and with a GoD who refuses to do his job this is a perfect scenario for them to fight without Beerus doing a hakai and erasing these threats out of existence.

Let's be honest, I think Beerus's lazy habits are going to keep biting both Goku and Vegeta on the ass, seeing as Moro is a threat he should be dealing with. But Goku and Vegeta have to do his job for him because Beerus is a lazy asshole. More than likely there going to have Beerus leave some time during this arc because he clearly ain't going to contribute to anything since he's fine with Moro doing his job. Probably to go eat or something cause that's how little he cares about Moro.

Honestly I don't get why Beerus is chill with Moro, you'd think he'd care about being dominant and the mortal level after the survival arc they had not too long ago. The again, I can't say I'm too shocked. Beerus doesn't feel like getting involved because he doesn't believe it's his problem, probably think that since Goku and Vegeta are fighting the threat that it doesn't matter too much.

Super Dragon Ball Heroes is doing a better job of making Beerus act like a concerned GoD than the anime or manga have thus far. And that's saying something

uh ... i don't care Db heroes ...
but in the anime beerus if he cared about the situation and he decide to act against zamasu if he did not act against future zamasu it was because time travel is forbidden to the gods

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Let's state the obvious...

Beerus only gets involved when he's personally at risk and even then does a lackluster job. Perfectly consistent for his character, which is known to be a selfish jerkass diety..Does the bare minimum and concludes his job is done, leaves the rest of the mess to Goku and Vegeta to solve.

This is pretty much how to introduce threats in the series, because if Beerus did his job properly nothing would happen. Though I have to admit, I hope one day in another arc Beerus does something useful, because him doing things in the background will get stale eventually.

In other words, asshole god is an asshole, surprise surprise!

[Tai Lung]

Let's state the obvious...

Beerus only gets involved when he's personally at risk and even then does a lackluster job. Perfectly consistent for his character, which is known to be a selfish jerkass diety..Does the bare minimum and concludes his job is done, leaves the rest of the mess to Goku and Vegeta to solve.

This is pretty much how to introduce threats in the series, because if Beerus did his job properly nothing would happen. Though I have to admit, I hope one day in another arc Beerus does something useful, because him doing things in the background will get stale eventually.

In other words, asshole god is an asshole, surprise surprise!

-with frieza ... there was no need beerus was stronger besides that goku and vegeta could against him
-with zamasu he gets involved and takes direct actions ... due to the threat that he represents in the future not only for himself but for the multiverse ... but it was forbidden for a god to travel in time
-in tournaments .. he was not allowed to get involved ...
-god after the tournament of power and almost erased must learn the lesson

That he starts being an idiot who does what he wants is fine but ... after having spent so much in the series and not changing that way of being ... it is annoying, in the anime at least beerus has development and begins to respect more to the mortals who have fought for the universe that he should have protected ...

PD:
with broly its growth was gradual and surely he still does not exceed also does not pose a danger to others in the universe but moro yes

[Jack Bz]

Beerus is consistent with how he has been portrayed throughout the manga, but the irritating thing is that the ToP made it seem like there was going to be a change in that. It really really laboured the point that Beerus is a terrible GoD, and he was made distinctly aware of that himself with U7's low mortal level, which almost resulted in him and his universe being wiped out. That wasn't enough to strike some fear in him? They're almost definitely still at the bottom of the mortal level of all the universes, maybe even at the very bottom now that Moro has been eating planets for months.

This is the attitude that almost got Beerus killed. It's hard to rationalise.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Beerus is consistent with how he has been portrayed throughout the manga, but the irritating thing is that the ToP made it seem like there was going to be a change in that. It really really laboured the point that Beerus is a terrible GoD, and he was made distinctly aware of that himself with U7's low mortal level, which almost resulted in him and his universe being wiped out. That wasn't enough to strike some fear in him? They're almost definitely still at the bottom of the mortal level of all the universes, maybe even at the very bottom now that Moro has been eating planets for months.

This is the attitude that almost got Beerus killed. It's hard to rationalise.

Isn't part of Beerus's character the fact he is an asshole who's lack of critical thinking and blatant foresight bites him in the ass as well as everyone else? Like seriously, I think expecting any lesson to stick to Beerus is asking a bit much, seeing as we know that it's Beerus's thing to be an asshole even when it inconveniences him.

Asshole let's Frieza run around ruling the universe and sleeps. Let's Buu destroy shit and almost murder the kais, one of whom is fucking life linked with him! Let's Moro, a planet eater run around even after the ToP and knowing of his abilities. Completely in character even if it's annoying how little he cares.

Hell, he thinks Moro is doing his JOB for him! The fucking planet eating lunatic is completely fine in his book as long as he's destroying planets....even though mortal life in Universe 7 is low and Moro existing is making it worse because he wants to CONSUME EVERYTHING. Who knows how many Moro's killed thanks to Beerus's dumbass thinking. Seriously, I think we need the dragon balls to give Beerus's brain a decent amount of foresight because it's obvious he doesn't think this shit through.

The writers have to keep Beerus incompetent and a jerkass so that Goku and Vegeta can deal with the threats he's supposed to deal with. That isn't changing anytime soon, especially with the abysmal way he's handling the Moro situation. The ToP must've slipped his mind given how careless Beerus is just letting Moro snack on planets and ruin everything.

Universe 7 can't advance with Moro running around and no doubt he's going to be a pain in the ass to kill.

Beerus's lack of foresight has almost got him killed in the past, I doubt it's supposed to make sense. You'd think the ToP would make Beerus at least somewhat aware and cautious of things but I guess he forgot. Beerus must have a fast memory for supposed life lessons he should be learning.

Still the same old Beerus, even when it risks everyone including himself getting fucked over by his stupid actions that give us the plot of DBS. Same old, same old. What do you expect, they can't have Beerus being competent all by himself, as that would make things boring.

In other words, THIS JUST IN!

Beerus is an asshole god who doesn't do his job even when it's going to fuck everyone over and has two saiyans and their friends be his clean up crew as they fight for their lives even after the ToP made him think for a moment about how much of an asshole he is and how he sucks at his job, he still doesn't care cause he's an asshole, the manga!

[The Undying]

Beerus is consistent with how he has been portrayed throughout the manga, but the irritating thing is that the ToP made it seem like there was going to be a change in that.

Notice how it was Android 17's wish that elevated Universe 7 in the rankings.

The lesson of the Universe Survival arc, from the themes of teamwork/cooperation right down to the wish itself, is that it was the mortals who were able to accomplish that - not the gods.

Everyone fulfilled their roles in the manga.

[Tai Lung]

Beerus is consistent with how he has been portrayed throughout the manga, but the irritating thing is that the ToP made it seem like there was going to be a change in that.

Notice how it was Android 17's wish that elevated Universe 7 in the rankings.

that does not raise the number of mortals

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Beerus is consistent with how he has been portrayed throughout the manga, but the irritating thing is that the ToP made it seem like there was going to be a change in that.

Notice how it was Android 17's wish that elevated Universe 7 in the rankings.

that does not raise the number of mortals

I thought it did, I remember it being mentioned but I can't remember correctly if it did raise the mortal level. I think Zeno gave Universe 7 a bit of a boost in mortal level after they won the ToP, though I can't be sure...

[The Undying]

that does not raise the number of mortals

...which specifically tells you, the audience, that mortal levels aren't strictly determined by "number of mortals" and are instead a qualitative measurement.

This ain't rocket science.

I thought it did, I remember it being mentioned but I can't remember correctly if it did raise the mortal level.

It did. The Grand Priest attributes it to 17's wish in Chapter 42.

[Tai Lung]

Notice how it was Android 17's wish that elevated Universe 7 in the rankings.

that does not raise the number of mortals

I thought it did, I remember it being mentioned but I can't remember correctly if it did raise the mortal level. I think Zeno gave Universe 7 a bit of a boost in mortal level after they won the ToP, though I can't be sure...

that I remember is the quality of life that officially had increased ... the number of living beings is still low
that is ... universe 7 is no longer down in the ranking but its problems with the amount of population remains

that does not raise the number of mortals

...which specifically tells you, the audience, that mortal levels aren't strictly determined by "number of mortals" and are instead a qualitative measurement.

This ain't rocket science.

what you don't understand is that the problem remains the same ...

much as now the "quality" of life is not considered low since they won the tournament there is still the problem between gap between creation and destruction ..

According to Shin, the number of living planets is small, now it must be worse and Beerus still doesn't care.

[emperior]

Beerus is perfectly in character in this arc.

He’s acting exactly like Toriyama said he does. It should already be obvious considering how Beerus was written in Broly, where he couldn’t bother lift his ass when the threat was behind the corner. And Toriyama is supervising the manga and helped with the story in some parts, so he must be fine with how Beerus has been portrayed this arc.

To those who still will argue the contrary, here’s what Toriyama had to say about how Beerus does his job:
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... yama-2013/

“In order to provide a balance to the constantly increasing number of planets, the God of Destruction destroys [them], but he does not act on Kaiōshin’s orders; he destroys according to his own individual judgment. Except, he is capricious, so he will destroy even an important world without a second thought, or when he finds it bothersome, let someone else act as an agent of destruction.”

[Grimlock]

“In order to provide a balance to the constantly increasing number of planets, the God of Destruction destroys [them].”

This part amuses me for some reason...

[Miracles]

Beerus is perfectly in character in this arc.

He’s acting exactly like Toriyama said he does. It should already be obvious considering how Beerus was written in Broly, where he couldn’t bother lift his ass when the threat was behind the corner. And Toriyama is supervising the manga and helped with the story in some parts, so he must be fine with how Beerus has been portrayed this arc.

To those who still will argue the contrary, here’s what Toriyama had to say about how Beerus does his job:
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... yama-2013/

“In order to provide a balance to the constantly increasing number of planets, the God of Destruction destroys [them], but he does not act on Kaiōshin’s orders; he destroys according to his own individual judgment. Except, he is capricious, so he will destroy even an important world without a second thought, or when he finds it bothersome, let someone else act as an agent of destruction.”

Good find. The bold...It's what Beerus said at the start of this arc. How he let Moro smoke planet Namek.

[emperior]

“In order to provide a balance to the constantly increasing number of planets, the God of Destruction destroys [them].”

This part amuses me for some reason...

Why? It’s referring to standard planets, not ones with intelligent life forms.

[The Undying]

what you don't understand is that the problem remains the same ...

You're missing the point. The "problem" was resolved 17 chapters ago.

Mortal levels aren't some ongoing narrative dilemma. They're a plot device exclusively designed for the previous arc, setting up the circumstances behind our heroes' impending doom while also illustrating that our heroes, as mortals, were the only ones actually qualified to improve the state of the universe.

You might notice this all stopped being a pressing issue when the Grand Priest honored 17's wish to bring everybody back, despite their already-questionable mortal levels. It's not an immediate problem. It hasn't been mentioned since.

The current arc is about a criminal eating energy for snacks and busting up planets, not near-omnipotent beings threatening nearly all of existence because the gods failed to satisfy some quota. Moro poses nothing but convenience for a character that literally bases all of his decisions on convenience, with any indirect problems nullified by the fact that Beerus and foresight go together about as well as oil and water.

This is all perfectly in line with how these guys behave. Pay attention to the story you're criticizing.

[Mister_Popo]

Really still don't know why this fetish has to be set in stone "Beerus must stay neutral and not involved untill Super finally finishes with the endgame." If we can predict the ending of a story that may continue on for a decade, how can it be a good ending?
We sure need a good explaination why MUI Goku still is no match for non-mastered UI Beerus in that case.
If not, couldn't the over-concistency become an inconcistency at the end?

I honestly think this aspect of Super is boring and predictable writing that could continue for for a terribly long time. Beerus suddenly showing up, completely unexpected, because something actually threatens his position, would actually be a lot more intresting. The writers would actually 'utilize' the character (an important character from the beginning of DBS) in that case.

[Akyon]

With how Moro has now gone around wiping out what remains of Universe 7's mortal level, maybe it's time Beerus at least gathered up the Super Dragon Balls and wished back every inhabited planet that was destroyed by Frieza, Moro and the Saiyans to get the mortal level back up.

He doesn't even have to learn a lesson and can continue being the status quo lazy asshole god he is.

Bonus points as it'll give Universe 7 some new places and stories to explore...providing it's not all planet Vegeta focused.

[emperior]

Why would Beerus ever give a damn about the planets he destroyed or let others destroy? It would be extremely OOC if he wished any planet back to life.