"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DevilKing99 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:54 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:39 pm
Mister_Popo wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:34 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:33 pm I'd actually like something about his origins, not just his motivations.

It's so weird. Toriyama devoted an entire backstory to explain how Cell or Zamasu got the powers they have in the current storyline, so why exactly can Moro consume life? Where does the ability to eat planets come from? What's the source of that magic? NO OTHER CHARACTER has it, so very clearly it must be something he developed, or knowledge only he found... Imagine if Toriyama never revealed Cell's origins, his powers would be completely unexplained. Same thing here.

I'll say one thing though: If Toei is just going to give Moro a dumb 2-minutes long flashback in the middle of a fight (like they did with a certain annoying grey alien), then they shouldn't even bother.

Consider this just a suggestion to make this dumb goat a bit less forgettable.


I agree it's an intresting concept to give Moro a more profound origin story, that's connected to the already established lore.

But maybe you are expecting too much. I somehow doubt TOEI will delve that deep.
With the Zamasu arc Toriyama basically wrote his "fall to the dark side" in the basic plotline.
Now, it clearly isn't included.
With Moro, they will have to come from far.

TOEI could and should give us something more and slightly different, but i'm afraid the basic plotoutline for the arc is a little too thin for a more thorough character driven story like with Zamasu.

They can of course always surprise us ...
Oh I'm not saying they should write Moro as a morally grey villain, it's way too late for that. But they should at least explain the origins of his powers.

Zamasu has Goku's power because he stole his body, and has immortality because he made a wish to the Super Dragon Balls.
Majin Buu has immense destructive power because he's an ancient monster who cyclically destroys galaxies then goes into hibernation.
Cell has the powers of all Z Fighters because he's an android created from their combined DNA.
Frieza is feared as the Emperor of the universe because he's a prodigy/mutant from an already strong species.
Vegeta is a very powerful Saiyan because he's the prince of a warrior race, he's elite.
And so on...

It's a complaint I had about Jiren too. How exactly did he get so powrful? Why is it that this weak little orphan is even stronger than the Gods of Destruction?

Only the most ambitious villains should have their motivations explained, but every villain should have their POWER explained, don't you think? And so I'm left wondering... why can Moro consume life, exactly? Where does his dark magic come from? Is he like a sorcerer from the Demon Realm or...? He looks like the Devil, so is this what Toriyama was going for? Is he like an important figure from the Demon Realm/Hell of the DBverse?
I have to agree Moro was the main villain from 2018 to 2021 and has no at all character whatsoever we don't even know what his thing with the Grand Supreme Kai because Toyo did nothing at all with it

Beerus and Freeza have some type of relationship with damn near everybody in U7 now.

Black had Zamasu, Gowasu, Future Trunks, Goku, Vegeta, and Mai.

Hit is the strongest dude in U6 and everybody there knows who he is and loves him, The Saiyans wanted to help him during his pride trooper fights during the top arc several times which means we know he's a hero, not to mention he's still alive.

Jiren already started to improve as a character during the final stages of the top arc and will continue he already promised to Toppo to Train and open up to the other pride troopers.

Moro is done and has not got a single interesting relationship with anybody of note at all, the only one that comes close is the Grand Supreme Kai who Toyo benched heavily and didn't bother. And he was the main villain from 2018 to 2021.

Like I have said before Toyo cannot develop characters at all, that entire sacrifice thing from Merus fell flat for me because we didn't know jack about Merus.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by theherodjl » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:26 am

Does anyone know why Moro is a goat and also a devourer at the same time? I know that goats may eat a lot of grass but I don't really associate them with consuming the life force of entire worlds. I'm just not getting the theme here.
Did Toriyama or Toyotaro write down the names of various animal species on little pieces of paper and then mixed it around in a basket, choosing the design of the latest villain based on the first species randomly chosen? Because other than the association of goats with biblical folklore of demons, I'm at a loss.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:50 am

theherodjl wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:26 am Does anyone know why Moro is a goat and also a devourer at the same time? I know that goats may eat a lot of grass but I don't really associate them with consuming the life force of entire worlds. I'm just not getting the theme here.
Did Toriyama or Toyotaro write down the names of various animal species on little pieces of paper and then mixed it around in a basket, choosing the design of the latest villain based on the first species randomly chosen? Because other than the association of goats with biblical folklore of demons, I'm at a loss.
Moro is based on Moloch, an ancient canaanite deity to whom they used to sacrifice children to. So I guess that’s where it comes from I suppose. He consumed children.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:53 am

theherodjl wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:26 am Does anyone know why Moro is a goat and also a devourer at the same time? I know that goats may eat a lot of grass but I don't really associate them with consuming the life force of entire worlds. I'm just not getting the theme here.
Did Toriyama or Toyotaro write down the names of various animal species on little pieces of paper and then mixed it around in a basket, choosing the design of the latest villain based on the first species randomly chosen? Because other than the association of goats with biblical folklore of demons, I'm at a loss.
As I said earlier, I think they were going for a demonic look. Whether that means that Moro is a sorcerer from the Demon Realm, I don't know, because he literally has 1 line of backstory... but he does look very similar to a traditional demon. Demons were often depicted with a humanoid body and goat head, so Moro definitely resembles them.

It would be so fitting if Moro was a demon. That means that the only two villains of Modern Dragon Ball would have been a fallen angel and a demon. Pretty poetic, huh?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:58 am

There's a fair bit of assumption floating around, so here's a direct quote from Toyotaro on why he went with a goat:
For Moro’s design, I was envisioning pure evil. I didn’t want the villain of the Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc to be someone who it seemed like might become ally afterward, but rather an enemy who absolutely had to be defeated. I wanted everyone to think, “We gotta beat this guy!” after getting one look at him, like the original Demon King Piccolo. I used goats, which are a common visual motif for Western demons, as a base. His outfit is evocative of the grim reaper’s, so I really wanted to go all in on designing an evil character.
We have this interview translated in full.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:49 am

I do wonder if Moro will stay in Hell for a very long time or if his soul will quickly be reincarnated after death similar to what happen with Buu?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:45 am

Hellspawn28 wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:49 am I do wonder if Moro will stay in Hell for a very long time or if his soul will quickly be reincarnated after death similar to what happen with Buu?
He’s spent millions of years not repenting at all in prison, so it’s safe to assume it will take a very long time for him to repent in hell, if he ever will.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:50 am

Hellspawn28 wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:49 am I do wonder if Moro will stay in Hell for a very long time or if his soul will quickly be reincarnated after death similar to what happen with Buu?
What do you mean, Moro didn't even die yet :twisted:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:13 am

Xeogran wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:50 am What do you mean, Moro didn't even die yet :twisted:
Exactly... :mrgreen:
Hellspawn28 wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:49 am I do wonder if Moro will stay in Hell for a very long time or if his soul will quickly be reincarnated after death similar to what happen with Buu?
On that note, if Moro is dead/dies on Earth, I wonder if we'll get a glimpse at his personal hell.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by obiwan23s » Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:30 pm

With as much as the Moro arc ripped off plot points from other arcs, I do have a suspicion they'll rip off the Freeza arc right before Goku's first Super Saiyan transformation when everyone thought Freeza died to the Spirit Bomb. Hopefully he's dead, but idk...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Devilman21/ » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:16 pm

Eh the ending to the last chapter felt pretty final. Like It felt more like Gohan defeating Cell or Goku killing Majin Boo with the spirit bomb than the Namek spirit bomb bit. If Moro is still alive I don't imagine he'll be much of a threat. This next chapter is supposed to the final chapter in the arc whereas the Freeza/spirit bomb stuff represented a "turning of the tide" moment in the arc. Plus we've already several times when it seemed as if Moro was down and then had some trick up his sleeve. For that to happen again at this point would just seem unnecessary. But I suppose we will see.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:47 pm

Devilman21/ wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:16 pm Eh the ending to the last chapter felt pretty final. Like It felt more like Gohan defeating Cell or Goku killing Majin Boo with the spirit bomb than the Namek spirit bomb bit. If Moro is still alive I don't imagine he'll be much of a threat. This next chapter is supposed to the final chapter in the arc whereas the Freeza/spirit bomb stuff represented a "turning of the tide" moment in the arc. Plus we've already several times when it seemed as if Moro was down and then had some trick up his sleeve. For that to happen again at this point would just seem unnecessary. But I suppose we will see.
Yeah, I think you could throw in a DRAMATIC FINISH sign into that panel of Goku smiling and giving the thumbs up and it would look even better.

UI Goku should now finish Moro or Vegeta do his fission thing and remove 7-3, the ki he ate lately and make him old again so Jaco can take him away. Besides, unless it's a red herring, Beerus might be in trouble with upstairs and we can finally move on.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:13 pm

You know, I'm super hyped about the drafts tomorrow and the next chapter. I've been a fan of Grand Priest since his debut and now we will finally get to see him outside of his usual calm demeanor. Toyotaro, please make this as exciting as you can, there is many years worth of setup on the stake here.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:12 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:47 pm
Devilman21/ wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:16 pm Eh the ending to the last chapter felt pretty final. Like It felt more like Gohan defeating Cell or Goku killing Majin Boo with the spirit bomb than the Namek spirit bomb bit. If Moro is still alive I don't imagine he'll be much of a threat. This next chapter is supposed to the final chapter in the arc whereas the Freeza/spirit bomb stuff represented a "turning of the tide" moment in the arc. Plus we've already several times when it seemed as if Moro was down and then had some trick up his sleeve. For that to happen again at this point would just seem unnecessary. But I suppose we will see.
Yeah, I think you could throw in a DRAMATIC FINISH sign into that panel of Goku smiling and giving the thumbs up and it would look even better.

UI Goku should now finish Moro or Vegeta do his fission thing and remove 7-3, the ki he ate lately and make him old again so Jaco can take him away. Besides, unless it's a red herring, Beerus might be in trouble with upstairs and we can finally move on.
This was a few pages before Freeza killed Kuririn:
I'm not saying Moro will manage something like that, but I think it's entirely possible he'll be barely hanging on.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:24 pm

Xeogran wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:13 pm You know, I'm super hyped about the drafts tomorrow and the next chapter. I've been a fan of Grand Priest since his debut and now we will finally get to see him outside of his usual calm demeanor. Toyotaro, please make this as exciting as you can, there is many years worth of setup on the stake here.
I think the Grand Priest will maintain his composure, but Beerus will be punished for his incompetence.

The Omni King already lamented Beerus' foolishness in the U6 arc, and proposed to fire him. Merus' death was the last straw. The death of an Angel is UNTHINKABLE, and it happened because Beerus didn't do his job and erase Moro when he had the chance. As a result, he will 100% be punished, hopefully by being erased himself.

I so can't wait for the anime to come back, I already know that I'll enjoy watching that scene :P

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:34 pm

I'm intrigued by the possibilities of what might be next for Goku.

I think it was Ziegander who suggested that he might repudiate Ultra Instinct, since some of Moro's statements about him thinking himself a God seemed to hit a nerve - it would also align with Goku's previous statements about finding Godhood boring, and not wanting to be perfected because he always aims higher. I think it's possible he might want to re-train from the ground up.

On the other hand, Goku expressed definite frustration that he didn't have the power to do what Merus could, even with Ultra Instinct, and it's clear that Whis is still far beyond him, so he still has further to go in some way. Perhaps it could be revealed that there are other 'Divine Secrets' (understanding Migatte no Gokui as translating to 'Secret of Selfishness') that Goku will learn as the next steps in his journey, having mastered Ultra Instinct?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:22 am

If Dragon Ball is supposed to go on for a long time then they will most likely come up with something above Ultra Instinct. Personally I hope it won’t be new transformations but different ways to get stronger (ex. New techniques, new training etcetera).

Goku repudiates perfection not because he doesn’t want to attain it but because he believes no such thing exists. I see no reason why he should ditch Ultra Instinct just because it is that strong.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by shadd21 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:49 am

Do we know for certain if the drafts are coming out today?(or tomorrow?)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:38 am

shadd21 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:49 am Do we know for certain if the drafts are coming out today?(or tomorrow?)
It's a special situation because today is 13th the usual day we get them, but since it's Sunday, we did not. I hope they come tomorrow, but maybe they don't want to spoil a hint for next arc before Jump Festa...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:59 am

Xeogran wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:38 am
shadd21 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:49 am Do we know for certain if the drafts are coming out today?(or tomorrow?)
It's a special situation because today is 13th the usual day we get them, but since it's Sunday, we did not. I hope they come tomorrow, but maybe they don't want to spoil a hint for next arc before Jump Festa...
Are you telling me that in all these many months, from the moment UI Sign Goku first started fighting against Prime Moro, (since that was when these rough drafts first came out), that the 13th never ever fell on a Sunday until now???!

Seems pretty hard to believe.

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