Funimation's 30th anniversary collectible home video release

[Gligarman]

How about Funimation puts this supposedly properly formatted version on the market and pulls all of the cropped ones that nobody wants, off of the market? I mean, why does this have to be a suggestion? I have never in all my decades as an anime fan seen any company crop a series to 16x9 and declare it a definitive release. They're never going to get it right, they will always find some way to mess up their releases. This kind of set should not be limited, it should be the standard.

It's rare for anime, but sadly all too common for live-action programming. Seinfeld and Friends are unwatchable to me in their present streaming, broadcast, and home video incarnations, with how cramped the framing feels after they were likewise sliced for 16:9. Even critically-acclaimed shows like The Wire and The Shield couldn't escape the treatment for their latest remasters (though at least they were originally filmed in 16:9 even if they were never framed or originally intended to be shown that way), mandated by the studios, against the wishes of their creators (who begrudgingly accepted the reality and made the best of it). It's awful, and most genuine dedicated film and television fans of course roll their eyes at it. But these shows target more than just the dedicated fans, and have to appeal to the plebes who can't stand there being something "wrong" with the TV signal that creates a square picture on their lovely, expensive widescreen TVs. God, if you check reviews for the Cowboy Bebop BD, there are even people complaining about 4:3 for Bebop.

As Funi considers DBZ an evergreen property with appeal first and foremost to casuals, rather than purist anime fans, or even the hardcore purist DBZ fandom, they treat it like Western TV companies treat Western live-action. Ugh to both.

We (anime fans) are actually lucky that anime is so niche that DBZ is one of the only anime properties affected.

Sad but true. I recall Sabat and crew referred to their uncut releases with Japanese audio as being for "anime snobs." That's what frustrates me the most. They don't care about the series. It's just a paycheck to them. But hey, that's what after-markets and piracy are for.

[Spoofer]

I mean, at least live action shows can be extended to widescreen without much of a problem, since there's extra stuff on the film to show. The only shows I've seen not get the widescreen treatment when upgraded to HD are Star Trek TOS & TNG & that was because TOS was filmed on film that only allowed for 4:3 (because 60s, same for other programs & even films not being in widescreen like Twilight Zone) & TNG was filmed by the crew knowing about the blocking requirements for 4:3 TVs, so you have film equipment & people on the sides of the frames that couldn't be painted out without an extensive editing process, which would've caused it to be more expensive to do. The only place the blocking came up was in the roundtable Seth MacFarlane did with 4 of the main writers & he said that. Other than that, nothing. So, they left it as-is.
As for the blocking of these other shows you pointed out, I've heard no one actually talk about that with those shows anywhere. Some shows back during the 90s WERE future-proofed with the blockings (like X-Files), but the only show I've seen be remastered & extended into widescreen where it shouldn't have been is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I've seen the comparisons & that was a show that, much like TNG, shouldn't have been extended to widescreen because of the film equipment & people visible on the sides. Though those remasters also have problems of lighting issues completely changing the mood of some of the scenes, which is why I suspect that show hasn't received a Blu-Ray or HD digital release yet. If they redo the remasters with Joss Whedon's help, then they could have a proper HD version of the show ready to go.
On the other shows, though, if they CAN be in widescreen with no issues, I see no problem with that. If the blocking isn't too affected by it, converting a live action show to widescreen if it was filmed on the appropriate film elements is fine for the most part. An animated series, though, I don't think SHOULD be cropped unless it was created in that format & converted to 4:3 because it was broadcasted in a time where that was the standard. I mean, Disney & WB created many of their 2000s cartoons in HD widescreen & those are now available on iTunes & other places in that format to watch. Toei, however, didn't start creating shows in widescreen until the late 2000s. Super Sentai's first widescreen season was Boukenger, I believe, which aired in 2006 & One Piece had been a bit earlier in 2004 with episode 207. Dragon Ball was WAY earlier than that, so reformatting it to widescreen was unbelievably stupid.

Strongly disagree. As I mentioned, Seinfeld and Friends are literally cropped. They feature some gains on the left and right, but ultimately, enough of the top and bottoms are lost as that you feel how cramped the framing is. For a show like The Shield, the entire purpose behind its original aesthetic was that it was supposed to have this up-close-and-personal documentary feel, with interrogations feeling incredibly cramped and tense, and much of the show deliberately shot on cheaper film stock to give it as raw a feel as possible. And now the studios want to make it look like every other generic cop drama out there. With The Wire, again, David Simon is also on record as stating that opening up the framing changed the look, focus, and impact of many of the scenes, along with all the scenes that had to be modified with different shots because the blocking wasn't right. Both these shows clearly start cropping when they're forced to as well, if they simply can't open the fields up, and even when they can, you're often just gaining empty space without any specific cinematic purpose. I sure am glad David Lynch didn't put up with that nonsense for a show like Twin Peaks.

Aspect ratio in film is certainly an intentional choice by the directors and cinematographers, and it was never much different for 4:3. They deliberately and carefully compose the shots to look a specific way (especially for dramas), exactly the same as in DBZ. Changing the aspect ratio, however it's done, goes against the original intention of how the show is supposed to look. There are indeed some shows that future proofed, like ER and X-Files, that made sure to put equal thought and care into how the frame would look under both aspect ratios. But that's the exception rather than the rule. Most shows prior to the early to mid 00s were only intended to be seen in 4:3, and were composed for 4:3, and shot on wider filmstock only because it was cheaper. It's just that most people don't care because they're casual television fans who don't think a whole lot about shot composition to begin with, or aren't bothered by the cramped feel of reframed older comedies, and aren't anywhere near as obsessive about the originally-intended look as DB fans are about DBZ. As I said, all they care about is having as much of their expensive TV screen real estate filled up with active pixels. But as I said, most film or television aficionados find it to be just as incredibly obnoxious a process as DBZ purists do, and there has indeed been plenty of pushback and bitching every time it's done. It just falls on deaf ears and gets drowned out by the casual masses, just like with DBZ.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

As Funi considers DBZ an evergreen property with appeal first and foremost to casuals, rather than purist anime fans, or even the hardcore purist DBZ fandom, they treat it like Western TV companies treat Western live-action. Ugh to both.

This is actually my reasoning as to why Dragon Ball and GT weren't cropped at all: they're not seen by Funimation as evergreen and dependable like DBZ is (and make no mistake, DBS is the sequel to DBZ, NOT the second sequel to DB), thus it isn't worth it to them to try and increase sales by taking the time to crop it. Better to just run it through the usual filter and put it out on the cheap. Funnily enough for us, "on the cheap" means "less screwing around with it".

I believe the reason DB & GT didn't get cropped was because they couldn't. IIRC they didn't have HD Native scans like Z so they couldn't be cropped.
From what I have seen I think they still tried to DNR them and zoomed them in abit.

[KBABZ]

I believe the reason DB & GT didn't get cropped was because they couldn't. IIRC they didn't have HD Native scans like Z so they couldn't be cropped.

That doesn't make sense to me, it's not like what they screened on Toonami was done in HD, right? It would have had to have been re-scanned just for the Orange Bricks.

[simtek34]

I believe the reason DB & GT didn't get cropped was because they couldn't. IIRC they didn't have HD Native scans like Z so they couldn't be cropped.

That doesn't make sense to me, it's not like what they screened on Toonami was done in HD, right? It would have had to have been re-scanned just for the Orange Bricks.

I'm pretty sure it's because FUNimation has 3rd or 4th Generation Film prints for Dragon Ball Z, but for Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT, FUNi still only had Digibeta tapes. Cropping it the same way as DBZ wouldn't work.

As I mentioned, Seinfeld and Friends are literally cropped. They feature some gains on the left and right, but ultimately, enough of the top and bottoms are lost as that you feel how cramped the framing is.

Seinfeld, yes, but Friends actually wasn't cropped. The show was shot in 16:9, but framed so that all the important stuff is to be seen in the 4:3 frame of TV's at the time. That means they restored unseen footage on it rather than removed. One problem with it is that you can occasionally see the show crew, a mimmic double, and other things that aren't meant/supposed to be seen.
Take Matt LeBlanc breaking character while being out-of-frame:

Or the edge of the set for Joey and Chandlers's apartment being seen in the bottom Left Corner:

Here's a forum thread on it from 2011 when it was first released.

[Scsigs]

I believe the reason DB & GT didn't get cropped was because they couldn't. IIRC they didn't have HD Native scans like Z so they couldn't be cropped.

That doesn't make sense to me, it's not like what they screened on Toonami was done in HD, right? It would have had to have been re-scanned just for the Orange Bricks.

I'm pretty sure it's because FUNimation has 3rd or 4th Generation Film prints for Dragon Ball Z, but for Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT, FUNi still only had Digibeta tapes. Cropping it the same way as DBZ wouldn't work.

As I mentioned, Seinfeld and Friends are literally cropped. They feature some gains on the left and right, but ultimately, enough of the top and bottoms are lost as that you feel how cramped the framing is.

Seinfeld, yes, but Friends actually wasn't cropped. The show was shot in 16:9, but framed so that all the important stuff is to be seen in the 4:3 frame of TV's at the time. That means they restored unseen footage on it rather than removed. One problem with it is that you can occasionally see the show crew, a mimmic double, and other things that aren't meant/supposed to be seen.
Take Matt LeBlanc breaking character while being out-of-frame:

Or the edge of the set for Joey and Chandlers's apartment being seen in the bottom Left Corner:

Here's a forum thread on it from 2011 when it was first released.

There we go. Not exactly future-proofed, but not handled with 100% care.

Also, I've heard they have 3rd generation prints. The cropping on DB was only done to hide damaged frames from what I know. I'd love to see the Dragon Box masters, or the first generation film masters be used for a BR release of the series, especially if we can get the 2nd opening animation on a US release, even if it has to be rotoscoped to eliminate the Japanese text like one of GT's.

[KBABZ]

I'm pretty sure it's because FUNimation has 3rd or 4th Generation Film prints for Dragon Ball Z, but for Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT, FUNi still only had Digibeta tapes. Cropping it the same way as DBZ wouldn't work.

Ahh okay, that makes sense. Thanks!

Also, I've heard they have 3rd generation prints. The cropping on DB was only done to hide damaged frames from what I know. I'd love to see the Dragon Box masters, or the first generation film masters be used for a BR release of the series, especially if we can get the 2nd opening animation on a US release, even if it has to be rotoscoped to eliminate the Japanese text like one of GT's.

Same, heck even the other three Outros if at all possible. It's a minor change for sure but having a new Outro really helps sell the timeskip at the end of the show, rather than "Hey we're sorta awkwardly shuffling towards Z because we haven't replaced the old credits yet" that was induced by Funimation only being given one by Toei. Heck that effect is compounded when we're in the middle of the Daimao arc and the intro is STILL for the very first arc!

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I'm pretty sure it's because FUNimation has 3rd or 4th Generation Film prints for Dragon Ball Z, but for Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT, FUNi still only had Digibeta tapes. Cropping it the same way as DBZ wouldn't work.

Ahh okay, that makes sense. Thanks!

Also, I've heard they have 3rd generation prints. The cropping on DB was only done to hide damaged frames from what I know. I'd love to see the Dragon Box masters, or the first generation film masters be used for a BR release of the series, especially if we can get the 2nd opening animation on a US release, even if it has to be rotoscoped to eliminate the Japanese text like one of GT's.

Same, heck even the other three Outros if at all possible. It's a minor change for sure but having a new Outro really helps sell the timeskip at the end of the show, rather than "Hey we're sorta awkwardly shuffling towards Z because we haven't replaced the old credits yet" that was induced by Funimation only being given one by Toei. Heck that effect is compounded when we're in the middle of the Daimao arc and the intro is STILL for the very first arc!

Yes, they are digibetas which are copies of copies from the original film prints. Simply put, they left DB and GT with their season sets alone because the masters' native resolution made it to where they couldn't do the same tampering as with Z.

[KBABZ]

Yes, they are digibetas which are copies of copies from the original film prints. Simply put, they left DB and GT with their season sets alone because the masters' native resolution made it to where they couldn't do the same tampering as with Z.

I'm guessing that in particular, without the added width, the picture would have been so zoomed in even Funimation would be disgusted by it.

[JohnnyCashKami]

As I said before, those were to meet the broadcasting standards so that it could be shown on TV both in Japan and around the world. If you've read the Kai Production page on the main site, you'll know that cropping it to 16:9 was the LAST thing they did in the production process of the original episode content. Even the title cards are formatted in 4:3 to support a 16:9 crop; if 16:9 was the priority, wouldn't that be the other way around?

Well, okay then, you have proof that that's how they intended to market Dragon Ball Kai but even for modern TV standards the 16x9 AR is more appropriate so I'm grateful they didn't just keep the 16x9 AR version for the Japanese Broadcast/DVD only.

The DBZ movies were originally in 4x3 AR and then cropped to 16x9 AR but that's another story.

[Danfun64]

As I mentioned, Seinfeld and Friends are literally cropped. They feature some gains on the left and right, but ultimately, enough of the top and bottoms are lost as that you feel how cramped the framing is.

Seinfeld, yes, but Friends actually wasn't cropped. The show was shot in 16:9, but framed so that all the important stuff is to be seen in the 4:3 frame of TV's at the time. That means they restored unseen footage on it rather than removed. One problem with it is that you can occasionally see the show crew, a mimmic double, and other things that aren't meant/supposed to be seen.
Take Matt LeBlanc breaking character while being out-of-frame:

Or the edge of the set for Joey and Chandlers's apartment being seen in the bottom Left Corner:

Here's a forum thread on it from 2011 when it was first released.

There we go. Not exactly future-proofed, but not handled with 100% care.

That looks like the opposite of what was done with the original 17 DB movies. They were animated in 4:3, but were meant to be seen cropped in widescreen, meaning occasionally you had animation errors on the top and bottom of 4:3 masters (some moments that come to mind, two of them are from DBZ Movie 3, the first being when the top of Gohan's Masenko wasn't fully drawn, the second was when Piccolo was floating down, and his cape was static until suddenly it started moving. Another moment is from DB Movie 4 where Shen Long wasn't fully drawn in one scene.

Edit: Didn't notice JohnnyCashKami's post.

[JohnnyCashKami]

Gohan's Masenko? Oh this scene.



To be honest, I never noticed it until I paused at this exact moment and it's not really a big deal as it's only displayed for like a split second. Regardless, I prefer the DB and DBZ movies in 4x3 AR than the intended 16x9 AR.

[linkdude20002001]

Wasn’t the intended aspect ratio 1.85:1? Whatever the movie size normally is.

[Scsigs]

Wasn’t the intended aspect ratio 1.85:1? Whatever the movie size normally is.

That would be the same aspect ratio of the Back to the Future movie.

[KBABZ]

Wasn’t the intended aspect ratio 1.85:1? Whatever the movie size normally is.

Correct, it's widescreen, but not 16:9 specifically. The movies were likely animated in 4:3 so that they can be viewed without letterboxing on TV broadcasts (and the overscan on CRTs would crop out errors like the Masenko above, or at least make them less glaringly obvious).

[HakkaiBills93]

Wasn’t the intended aspect ratio 1.85:1? Whatever the movie size normally is.

Correct, it's widescreen, but not 16:9 specifically. The movies were likely animated in 4:3 so that they can be viewed without letterboxing on TV broadcasts (and the overscan on CRTs would crop out errors like the Masenko above, or at least make them less glaringly obvious).

i don't want to break enjoyment but if you just read twitter comments from the announcement there is like.....90% bad opinions comment about it..how do you want to get a great release with so much jerk eyes people that are fine with ultra dnr, cropping etc and just want db super return?

i feel that it will be hard to get a release , don't count too high on it with this kind of useless people

[IAmTheMilkMan]

As I mentioned, Seinfeld and Friends are literally cropped. They feature some gains on the left and right, but ultimately, enough of the top and bottoms are lost as that you feel how cramped the framing is.

Seinfeld, yes, but Friends actually wasn't cropped. The show was shot in 16:9, but framed so that all the important stuff is to be seen in the 4:3 frame of TV's at the time. That means they restored unseen footage on it rather than removed. One problem with it is that you can occasionally see the show crew, a mimmic double, and other things that aren't meant/supposed to be seen.

Thank you for pointing that out and for providing the comparison shots; I was hoping someone would as I am far too lazy to do so myself.

I'm typically a proponent of watching a show or film in it's original aspect ratio, but when it comes to multi-camera sitcoms like Friends and Seinfeld, I feel the argument against 16:9 HD remasters is somewhat blown out of proportion. I don't watch these shows for their shot composition, and Friends in particular, I think, benefits substantially from the opened up 16:9 frame when being viewed on modern televisions. Even Seinfeld in HD, which actually has been selectively cropped, doesn't bother me because I never notice the cropping. None of the shots look too tight or claustrophobic, and I never feel like I'm missing out on something because of it. This can even work outside of multi-camera sitcoms if the show was lucky enough to have been "future-proofed." Freaks and Geeks, for instance, looks amazing in 16:9 HD, and I believe the creator, Paul Feig, has even said that he would prefer that it be viewed in 16:9 if that's the aspect ratio of the television it's being viewed on.

Dragon Ball Z, on the other hand, does not benefit from this process at all. Every time I've viewed the series in any of its 16:9 iterations, it's been painfully obvious to me that it's been cropped, to the point where it actually takes me out of the story. Even the selective cropping of Kai can't hide the fact that this show was originally animated in 4:3, which is made abundantly clear every time a character like Fat Boo appears on screen.

Anyway, yeah, stop cropping Dragon Ball.

[KBABZ]

Dragon Ball Z, on the other hand, does not benefit from this process at all. Every time I've viewed the series in any of its 16:9 iterations, it's been painfully obvious to me that it's been cropped, to the point where it actually takes me out of the story. Even the selective cropping of Kai can't hide the fact that this show was originally animated in 4:3, which is made abundantly clear every time a character like Fat Boo appears on screen.

Anyway, yeah, stop cropping Dragon Ball.

I always put it that it's like trying to watch Dragon Ball through a mail slot from the inside of the letterbox.

[Scsigs]

Thank you for pointing that out and for providing the comparison shots; I was hoping someone would as I am far too lazy to do so myself.

I'm typically a proponent of watching a show or film in its original aspect ratio, but when it comes to multi-camera sitcoms like Friends and Seinfeld, I feel the argument against 16:9 HD remasters is somewhat blown out of proportion. I don't watch these shows for their shot composition, and Friends in particular, I think, benefits substantially from the opened up 16:9 frame when being viewed on modern televisions. Even Seinfeld in HD, which actually has been selectively cropped, doesn't bother me because I never notice the cropping. None of the shots look too tight or claustrophobic, and I never feel like I'm missing out on something because of it. This can even work outside of multi-camera sitcoms if the show was lucky enough to have been "future-proofed." Freaks and Geeks, for instance, looks amazing in 16:9 HD, and I believe the creator, Paul Feig, has even said that he would prefer that it be viewed in 16:9 if that's the aspect ratio of the television it's being viewed it on.

Dragon Ball Z, on the other hand, does not benefit from this process at all. Every time I've viewed the series in any of its 16:9 iterations, it's been painfully obvious to me that it's been cropped, to the point where it actually takes me out of the story. Even the selective cropping of Kai can't hide the fact that this show was originally animated in 4:3, which is made abundantly clear every time a character like Fat Boo appears on screen.

Anyway, yeah, stop cropping Dragon Ball.

Anyone else get the feeling that Kai: TFC's opening was animated in 4:3, then either stretched or cropped to widescreen? It's either that, or some shots were animated in 4:3 then cropped, like the shot where Babidi & Dabura appear, then Buu. The composition of those shots never feels right to me no matter how many times I've seen it.

[Android 50]

I get the feeling it will be 4:3 finally but the coloring will be fucked up and really saturated. I dunno, I just don't think they will top their Level sets. Funimation has probably given up on making a similar product due to its low sales.