Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:54 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote: So on the whole, even if Goku doesn't care about marriage, he cares enough about Chi-Chi that he doesn't want her to be hurt.
Does he though?
People were saying Goku should be with a Saiyan woman (or all the Universe 6 Saiyan women), it was partly shipping and partly criticism of Chi-Chi.

Okay but saying Goku should get with a Saiyan woman is not even in the same continent as saying he should have a harem. Like how did you even get from point A to point B on that thought train?

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:01 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:38 am
The dub has nothing to do with it. It’s perfectly plausible that he learned what it was over the years.
What I meant was, the dub often tends to dramatically play down Goku's lack of knowledge about mainstream norms and social customs (at least as an adult). Its not uncommon for a lot of fans, who's exposure is mainly the dub, to assume that Goku is generally FAR more socially competent and aware as an adult than he actually is throughout almost the ENTIRE story in the Japanese run.

He DOES improve over time, sure: but its to a fairly relative degree that the dub once again tends to generally gloss over.
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:05 pm

Why wouldn't it be okay?
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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by SaintEvolution » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:24 pm

About Goku being a harem protagonist, the only thing remotely related to it I've ever saw were few fanarts shipping him with Caulifla, Cheelai, Kale or any other new female character else. But nothing more than that.

Goku being a harem protagonist has never be a relevant thing.

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by The Patrolman » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:45 am

HELL NO MY SHIP WILL NOT BE TARNISHED (jk)
The Last Jedi is a terrible movie

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:45 am

Do not you find it funny that these topics with Goku and another wife are repeated?

that is to say
vegeta, gohan and other characters do not have that debate so often

I will say what I have always said chichi I like and she is a good mother but a good mother can be any other character as bulma and be relevant to help her friends and her husband, their relationship with goku is really bad. they don't support mutually for fight or defeat an enemy like trunks and mai, they have nothing in common unlike gohan and videl in addition thet don't have development compared to 18 and krillin.
no one changes for the sake of the other then yeah ... literally goku could be single and there would not be much difference now.
Dbzfan94 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:29 pm
In what world do people want Goku to have a harem? What a silly thing to say.

He loves Chichi, and Chichi loves him. Any of the other girls (U6 Saiyans) dont even deserve a second glance.
it's not what the author really says

Since Saiyans are supposed to have no affection for family or friends, does this actually make Vegeta, who holds his family and wife dear, an even stranger (kinder) Saiyan than Goku?
Vegeta, whose pride had been deeply wounded, sought help from Bulma, and little by little, his ruthless personality changed. Nowadays, you certainly might be able to say that. On the other hand, Goku might not have a sense of family members like Gohan and Chi-Chi except as one of his companions.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -super-qa/

Goku prefers to stay dead than to return with his family on earth any other person who loves his wife and can not be far from her would do the opposite. we can agree that the topic does not make sense but it does not mean that everything is false the family copcept for a saiyan for goku is not the same for a human and in the same sleeve it has been shown.

and while couples like bulma and vegeta are better developed, the others only seem to be based on food and in they don't have other option than to conform.

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:58 am

It could never happen. Even if the two of them were unhappy with their marriage (which doesn't seem to be the case despite Goku's frequent absences) neither of them would ever consider splitting because it's more convenient to be together. I've always thought despite (or in fact, because of) his aversion to romance, Toriyama is unintentionally good at writing realistically dysfunctional couples. Vegeta/Bulma, 18/Krillin and Gohan/Videl have all become less believable the more exposure they get and the more conventionally "perfect" they appear to be. Goku/Chi Chi is the only dysfunctional couple left, a flawed yet understandable rural relationship in a sea of ideal 50s suburban families.

Plus, could you see either of them actually pulling the pin on that discussion? Goku is NEVER going to initiate the "I'm sorry, this isn't working out, let's give it til the kids are in college" conversation because that's not how his brain is wired. And Chi Chi wouldn't do it either because divorce is improper and scandalous and what will the neighbours say.

Yes I know they don't have neighbours, but that's the sort of woman she's written as.

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:31 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:45 am
Do not you find it funny that these topics with Goku and another wife are repeated?

that is to say
vegeta, gohan and other characters do not have that debate so often

I will say what I have always said chichi I like and she is a good mother but a good mother can be any other character as bulma and be relevant to help her friends and her husband, their relationship with goku is really bad. they don't support mutually for fight or defeat an enemy like trunks and mai, they have nothing in common unlike gohan and videl in addition thet don't have development compared to 18 and krillin.
no one changes for the sake of the other then yeah ... literally goku could be single and there would not be much difference now.
Dbzfan94 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:29 pm
In what world do people want Goku to have a harem? What a silly thing to say.

He loves Chichi, and Chichi loves him. Any of the other girls (U6 Saiyans) dont even deserve a second glance.
it's not what the author really says

Since Saiyans are supposed to have no affection for family or friends, does this actually make Vegeta, who holds his family and wife dear, an even stranger (kinder) Saiyan than Goku?
Vegeta, whose pride had been deeply wounded, sought help from Bulma, and little by little, his ruthless personality changed. Nowadays, you certainly might be able to say that. On the other hand, Goku might not have a sense of family members like Gohan and Chi-Chi except as one of his companions.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -super-qa/

Goku prefers to stay dead than to return with his family on earth any other person who loves his wife and can not be far from her would do the opposite. we can agree that the topic does not make sense but it does not mean that everything is false the family copcept for a saiyan for goku is not the same for a human and in the same sleeve it has been shown.

and while couples like bulma and vegeta are better developed, the others only seem to be based on food and in they don't have other option than to conform.
No, but I do find it funny you have some sort of vendetta against Goku and Chichi as a couple.

Using Toriyamas comments twenty years after the manga ended doesnt really count much. I look at the original manga and anime only, and going by what I read/watched there, it paints a different picture than Toriyamas Asspull Comment of the Month.

In Japanese culture, it is rude to disagree, especially in interviews. Notice Toriyama’s qualifying statement, ”you certainly might be able to say that” (a little suspicious, huh)? Notice that this interview is an English translation from an Asian language which does not have words directly translatable to English? Toriyama has just as much sense of the word ‘companion’ as Goku supposedly has of Toriyama’s concept of ‘family’.

In Japanese families, the family unit IS your identity. Toriyama is saying that is how Vegeta thinks, while Goku thinks differently. Individualistic culture is mainly in the West, but ironically, falls into Goku’s line of thinking, which is what it means to ‘not have a sense of family…’

Look at he Goten vs Trunks fight. When Goten turns SSJ, Vegeta blames Goku for something Goten did, “that was a cheap shot, Kakarot!!” as if they’re the same person - family unit. And Goku, with an individualistic mindset, completely attributes this to Goten, “hey…don’t yell at ME!”

Goku prefers to stay dead? Did you even watch the Cell saga? He stayed dead for the sake of his family. He sacrificed his life for Gohan and Chichi's well being so they could live in peace without some villain coming to attack the Earth because of Goku. Him being dead and gone took out that possibility. The one day he did come back, Majin Buu was unleashed. If Goku stayed dead that day, Vegeta wouldnt have threw his little temper tantrum, let himself get cotnrolled by Babidi and was the direct cause of Majin Buu being released.

Vegeta and Bulma only got developed in Super because of favortism, in the original series none of the couples really got anything, excluding the wedding filler at the end of DB.
Last edited by Dbzfan94 on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by ABED » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:46 am

What is a harem protagonist?
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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:08 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:46 am
What is a harem protagonist?
"Harem Comedy" is a subgenre of anime and manga. Its basically a sexually-charged wish-fulfillment sitcom where the main protagonist (almost always a male) is constantly hounded and harassed by a bevy of drop dead gorgeous female secondary characters.

It was basically, albeit TOTALLY inadvertently and unintentionally, invented by Rumiko Takahashi's Urusei Yatsura and Ranma 1/2, both of which featured the above types of situations, albeit along with actually smart, nuanced writing, clever character-dynamics, and like... actual jokes and a narrative thrust.

Most other later examples of Harem Comedy anime & manga don't bother with any of the wit or cleverness of Yatsura and Ranma, and just flatly go for "Main Character has a wide variety of boobs shoved in his face, yuk yuk splooge". The whole genre was more or less essentially borne almost entirely from lesser, dumbed-down knockoffs of Takahashi's style of comedy (both Yatsura and Ranma were two of the most iconic and inescapably ubiquitous cornerstones of 80s and early 90s anime & manga).

But yeah, basically NOTHING at all, whatsoever about Goku screams "Harem Protagonist", which typically tend to be shy, pent-up, horndog high school-aged young boys, typically (though not necessarily always) of the "nerd" or "loser" persuasion, who suddenly - via whatever random gimmick of the series - find themselves falling face-first into pussy galore: both metaphorically, and often literally.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:15 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:46 am
What is a harem protagonist?
Essentially, one guy has multiple women in love with him and is in a relationship with at least one of them. (sometimes all of them.)

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:40 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:46 am
What is a harem protagonist?
Tenchi Muyo

I mean there’s a whole subgenre but that’s literally the only harem series I know by name

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:02 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:31 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:45 am
Do not you find it funny that these topics with Goku and another wife are repeated?

that is to say
vegeta, gohan and other characters do not have that debate so often

I will say what I have always said chichi I like and she is a good mother but a good mother can be any other character as bulma and be relevant to help her friends and her husband, their relationship with goku is really bad. they don't support mutually for fight or defeat an enemy like trunks and mai, they have nothing in common unlike gohan and videl in addition thet don't have development compared to 18 and krillin.
no one changes for the sake of the other then yeah ... literally goku could be single and there would not be much difference now.
Dbzfan94 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:29 pm
In what world do people want Goku to have a harem? What a silly thing to say.

He loves Chichi, and Chichi loves him. Any of the other girls (U6 Saiyans) dont even deserve a second glance.
it's not what the author really says

Since Saiyans are supposed to have no affection for family or friends, does this actually make Vegeta, who holds his family and wife dear, an even stranger (kinder) Saiyan than Goku?
Vegeta, whose pride had been deeply wounded, sought help from Bulma, and little by little, his ruthless personality changed. Nowadays, you certainly might be able to say that. On the other hand, Goku might not have a sense of family members like Gohan and Chi-Chi except as one of his companions.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -super-qa/

Goku prefers to stay dead than to return with his family on earth any other person who loves his wife and can not be far from her would do the opposite. we can agree that the topic does not make sense but it does not mean that everything is false the family copcept for a saiyan for goku is not the same for a human and in the same sleeve it has been shown.

and while couples like bulma and vegeta are better developed, the others only seem to be based on food and in they don't have other option than to conform.
No, but I do find it funny you have some sort of vendetta against Goku and Chichi as a couple.

Using Toriyamas comments twenty years after the manga ended doesnt really count much. I look at the original manga and anime only, and going by what I read/watched there, it paints a different picture than Toriyamas Asspull Comment of the Month.

In Japanese culture, it is rude to disagree, especially in interviews. Notice Toriyama’s qualifying statement, ”you certainly might be able to say that” (a little suspicious, huh)? Notice that this interview is an English translation from an Asian language which does not have words directly translatable to English? Toriyama has just as much sense of the word ‘companion’ as Goku supposedly has of Toriyama’s concept of ‘family’.

In Japanese families, the family unit IS your identity. Toriyama is saying that is how Vegeta thinks, while Goku thinks differently. Individualistic culture is mainly in the West, but ironically, falls into Goku’s line of thinking, which is what it means to ‘not have a sense of family…’

Look at he Goten vs Trunks fight. When Goten turns SSJ, Vegeta blames Goku for something Goten did, “that was a cheap shot, Kakarot!!” as if they’re the same person - family unit. And Goku, with an individualistic mindset, completely attributes this to Goten, “hey…don’t yell at ME!”

Goku prefers to stay dead? Did you even watch the Cell saga? He stayed dead for the sake of his family. He sacrificed his life for Gohan and Chichi's well being so they could live in peace without some villain coming to attack the Earth because of Goku. Him being dead and gone took out that possibility. The one day he did come back, Majin Buu was unleashed. If Goku stayed dead that day, Vegeta wouldnt have threw his little temper tantrum, let himself get cotnrolled by Babidi and was the direct cause of Majin Buu being released.

Vegeta and Bulma only got developed in Super because of favortism, in the original series none of the couples really got anything, excluding the wedding filler at the end of DB.
Would it mean that if Goku had stayed majin buu he would have come faster? Does what you say make sense? He had lived 7 years at peace with his family and the idea of ​​goku was to stay dead and the reason really does not make much sense.

I saw it, but that's not an argument, it's just an unfounded excuse that Goku supposedly attracts trouble, it's not a fact, it's just a belief that has no basis or logic can easily have revived with king kai, Goku preferred to stay. But it seems that it does not affect him to be away from them even to go to train.

Goku also prefers to train away from home and separated from his family.
vegeta change in the buu arc, for love of his family ..
He left with whis and also with uub.
18 and Krillin show otherwise the blonde also changed a lot in her relationship with Krillin.
gohan and videl at least have things in common and had time to get to know each other at school

I do not have anything against both of them but their relationship in comparison with the other couples has not been proven to be good and only exists because of a punishment from the author according say.

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Travis Touchdown » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:20 pm

Considering how crazy enraged he got when he heard about how Goku Black killed the Chi Chi (and Goten) of his Timeline, I feel like Goku does love Chi Chi and cherish her in his own way, even if it’s not always on the surface.
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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:06 am

he also got mad when they killed krillin at the end his friends are his family

just to clarify I think the subject is ridiculous I do not see goku at all as protagonist harem but ...

taking into account that in the same series there are women like mai that supports trunks, bulma supports her friends and her husband and 18 with krillin fight togheter or maybe in other series where the protagonists have pairs that are warriors ... and well .. it bothers me that goku does not have that. :(

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:43 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:06 am
he also got mad when they killed krillin at the end his friends are his family

just to clarify I think the subject is ridiculous I do not see goku at all as protagonist harem but ...

taking into account that in the same series there are women like mai that supports trunks, bulma supports her friends and her husband and 18 with krillin fight togheter or maybe in other series where the protagonists have pairs that are warriors ... and well .. it bothers me that goku does not have that. :(
Chichi does support him though?? Were we watching the same series?

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:29 pm

Sometimes I think fans think about Dragon Ball in deeper terms than even Toriyama did.

Of course, I don't mean to discourage discussion if people really want to discuss something, but I think the simplest explanation for how marriage and divorce works in Dragon Ball is the "real-world" explanation: Toriyama didn't think that deeply about it. Toriyama has openly admitted to not liking writing about romance, and ho boy is that ever apparent.

Plus, there's also the matter of divorce in Japan. Here in the U.S.--and I'm sure many other countries, as well--divorce is a relatively common thing that isn't necessarily a huge deal. It certainly can be a huge deal, but it isn't automatically a huge deal. In Japan? It's quite a different story. Divorce is often a very, very big deal in Japan, because while divorce is perfectly legal in Japan, there are some decidedly unpleasant aspects about it: such as the fact that there is no such thing as "joint custody" of children. So if Goku got divorced, that would mean Chi-Chi would get sole custody of Gohan and Goten, and Goku would practically never see his childr................

........Well, OK, so it wouldn't be that different.
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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:46 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:43 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:06 am
he also got mad when they killed krillin at the end his friends are his family

just to clarify I think the subject is ridiculous I do not see goku at all as protagonist harem but ...

taking into account that in the same series there are women like mai that supports trunks, bulma supports her friends and her husband and 18 with krillin fight togheter or maybe in other series where the protagonists have pairs that are warriors ... and well .. it bothers me that goku does not have that. :(
Chichi does support him though?? Were we watching the same series?
ask you the same
Chichi does not like the training of goku simply "she accepts" this because she can not do anything else and also Goku will still get away and will do it but in general she is against that.

bulma
bulma help vegeta with its gravity machines for his training.
she create the dragon's radar and she relates to whis and beer for the good of the earth and her family is also a support.

mai
I support trunks of the future in their fight against zamasu as leader of a resistance and she protecting humans.
being only one human and technically they fight together to advance their future.

18
she is in favor of her husband training again and in the TOP they fights togheter.

chichi
she gives food and takes care of the children ok she is a good mother that is undeniable but many women in db are also mothers and even so they have offered more support to her husband than her and to be the wife of a warrior as it is goku I can not avoid say that chichi is very short.

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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:32 am

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:29 pm
Sometimes I think fans think about Dragon Ball in deeper terms than even Toriyama did.
Kunzait once laid out my own thoughts on this, and in the same overly-long rambling that I typically do as well.
In short: Dragon Ball is a shonen manga for 7/8 year olds and it knows what it wants to be. It's not trying to be deep. Whenever it is deep (e.g. the contrast between Son Goku and Piccolo Jr. before the Minus retcons), it's organic and often accidental, which makes it feel more true to life. Compare that to other shonen manga like One Piece or Naruto, where the characters are crying like emos every other chapter professing how much their life sucked and how reality is malleable based on your perception of it and whatnot. Despite all that, it still feels shallow because these are fundamentally comic books and cartoons for elementary school kids.

Western fans don't understand this because our media was so ridiculously puritanical and watered down in comparison. As a result, we think that shows like Dragon Ball Z were made for teenagers and adults in mind and try finding mature themes and implications where there often weren't any to begin with.

It's like someone in France thinking Arthur or Dragon Tales (the PBS shows for literal kindergartners) make epic statements on society, race, and relationships and subsequently trying to add deeper lore and headcanon.

It helps that fans often do bring new perspectives that someone else may not have had and that "Deconstructive Parody" is a thing. It's easy to want to deconstruct aspects of a certain IP to make it conform to known laws (whether they be legal or physical).

Another aspect to this is that Dragon Ball is a sort of second-life for plenty of people who grew up with it, so they don't even think about it being a children's cartoon from Japan.

All of this together (and more) means that the Dragon Ball that exists for millions of people isn't the same Dragon Ball that actually is and, thus, such silly questions as the OP's are fair game. I mean, it's just some silly fanfiction to ask if Goku should form a Saiyan harem, right?
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Re: Is it okay for Goku to be an divorcee?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:18 pm

Only if that leads to a romance with a older Caulifla.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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