.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[Nazi Cola]

I thought Gohan got a Zenkai at least once...

[Herms]

I thought Gohan got a Zenkai at least once...

There was the time when Dende healed him during the fight with Freeza. He got a lot more powerful, and Freeza realized that he must have some Saiyan blood.

[Kaboom]

Half-Saiyans have a LOT more "hidden power" and potential for growth. But at the same time, they have less innate motivation to do anything with that potential. Otherwise there's very little difference, if any.

I also like to think that Super Saiyan 4 is something special reserved for full-blooded Saiyans, but that may just be me.

[Kingdom Heartless]

I would say Gohan got a zenkai after fighting Nappa as well. It could be either that or his hidden power. I'd say it was a combination of the two.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[EnmaDaiou]

Manga passes the idea that Half Saiyajins have more potential.
But not the will of the full blood.

MOst of this idea came from the dialogue between Vegeta and Nappa.
But it was just a possibility.

Technically It's impossible to know how the saiyajin/human genetics works.
Statistically 4 half- saiyajins and one "quarter"-saiyajin are insignificant.

I think each fan must have your own answer for this question..

[Tenshinhan-san]

I think it has a lot to do with character/personality as well. For example, Tenshinhan is a human, or native earthling if you will (at least I consider him to be one) and he has a huge drive to constantly become stronger, Goku being pretty much his rival and role model later on once their difference in power got larger. Sure, in general pure Saiyans would have a natural urge to fight, this doesn't mean though that other races can't have that same drive in their character.

As for Gohan, he has shown very mixed attitudes when it comes to fighting. As a child, he usually was scared until pushed in a corner/enraged. This was shown in the Saiyan Saga. On Namek, Gohan seemed a lot more willing to fight, often even to be the initiator, this also could have something to do with his power being unlocked by Saichourou. Back on Earth, against Cell, Gohan was against fighting period. Once Cell enraged him enough he exploded, but until that point he didn't even defend himself while being beaten, which I still don't really understand. Seven years later, he seemd all willing again (despite having slacked for all those years), rock-paper-scissoring it out with Goku and Vegeta on who'd get to fight first.
These big fluctuations between Gohan's attitude toward fighting can have various reasons: Gohan's Human and Saiyan half struggling to take the overhand and both taking turns at being more dominant. The other explanation would be that Gohan is simply a bit of an emo. It's also not impossible that it's a mix of both and both 'conditions' influence each other. On further notice, Gohan's emotions greatly affect his power, but I don't think rage is the power trigger for all hybrids. I think Gohan is simply a unique case.

EDIT: I do agree though with what is said about hybrids having more potential than pure Saiyans.

Vegeta, whom I consider to be a very intelligent character, comments on this after witnessing the scouter details Raditz broadcasted. IIRC he says something along the lines of:

"It seems when Saiyan and Human blood is mixed it creates a monstrously powerful offspring. We don't want too many of those around."

Gohan, Goten and Trunks reaching ridiculous stages of power when they actually do train supports this as well. It's just that none of them consistently make the most out of their potential, unlike Goku and Vegeta (and some others).

[Rory]

I thought this was a given?
Half-Saiyans have proved again and again that they're superior to their full blooded counter-parts, potential wise, though their human blood seems to take away the Saiyan thirst for battle.
Look at Gohan's power when he's 11 compared to Goku's. It pretty much speaks for itself.

[Herms]

I also like to think that Super Saiyan 4 is something special reserved for full-blooded Saiyans, but that may just be me.

You're free to think that if you want I guess, but please note that such a thing is never actually said in the Japanese version of the show.

[Dayspring]

Where does this idea that hybrid Saiyans don't have the will to fight like regular Saiyans do?

Hybrids who love fighting: Goten, Trunks, Pan
Total: 3

Hybrids who hate fighting: Gohan
Total: 1

Hybrids with unknown motivations: Bra
Total: 1

That's either one or two out of five, not all five. The majority do like fighting.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[Kaboom]

Hybrids who love fighting: Goten, Trunks, Pan
Total: 3

Goten and Trunks were both young, and just saw training and fighting as a way of "playing." Sooner or later they both grew out of it, especially Goten. GT is as confusing as ever, but the thing held at least partially true for Pan as well. I suspect that training was mostly just a fun way for her to spend time with Grandpa. By the time GT rolls around, she seems more interested in boys and various other typical pre-teen girl things.

[Dayspring]

I don't think I follow. Are we saying fighting spirit (for pure Saiyans) = love torturing, pillaging and killing? Because wouldn't fighting as means of enjoying oneself equate with enjoying fighting?

And did Goten and Trunks really abandon their love of fighting or just their love of training? If the latter, I wouldn't call that being impure Saiyans, as nothing implies pureblooded Saiyans outside Goku and Vegeta trained nonstop outside of battles. Look what happened to Earthlings like Krillin and Tenshinhan who trained nonstop: they had the potential to kill Freeza with certain attacks. Had Saiyans trained with anywhere as much vigor, there'd be a lot more SSJs running around. At the very least, they wouldn't all be greatly beneath 18,000 as BPs. In other words, I don't think a love of training is something pureblooded Saiyans have.

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[TheDevilsCorpse]

Goten and Trunks were both young, and just saw training and fighting as a way of "playing." Sooner or later they both grew out of it, especially Goten. GT is as confusing as ever, but the thing held at least partially true for Pan as well. I suspect that training was mostly just a fun way for her to spend time with Grandpa. By the time GT rolls around, she seems more interested in boys and various other typical pre-teen girl things.

I agree for the most part. Once the hybrids are conned into fighting though, they do seem to enjoy it, there are just other higher priorities in their lives. If we are using GT, since it shows more hybrids at later points in their lives. The series does show Pan going to Mister Satans dojo to "spar" with his pupils when upset over every one treating her like a child, and no one was forcing her to do that. And when fighting Bebi on Planet Pital, I do believe Trunks states that he is getting excited about fighting for once. There is desire for fighting, but the Earthling blood seems to dilute that, somewhere along the lines of: "I really want to goof off and play video games, but I know that I really need to finish my book report".

I don't think I follow. Are we saying fighting spirit (for pure Saiyans) = love torturing, pillaging and killing? Because wouldn't fighting as means of enjoying oneself equate with enjoying fighting?

And did Goten and Trunks really abandon their love of fighting or just their love of training? If the latter, I wouldn't call that being impure Saiyans, as nothing implies pureblooded Saiyans outside Goku and Vegeta trained nonstop outside of battles. Look what happened to Earthlings like Krillin and Tenshinhan who trained nonstop: they had the potential to kill Freeza with certain attacks. Had Saiyans trained with anywhere as much vigor, there'd be a lot more SSJs running around. At the very least, they wouldn't all be greatly beneath 18,000 as BPs. In other words, I don't think a love of training is something pureblooded Saiyans have.

I disagree. The idea that Saiyans are even reaching 18,000 is already way above the normal for the universe, as even Nameks were said to have abnormal amounts of power and most of them seemed to be around 1,000-3,000, with only Nail above that (and it is possible he only reached that after Saichoro unlocked his potential). Even if Saiyans trained like crazy, there is no guarantee that they would reach an extremely high battle power before dying on the battlefield and if most of the universe was below 3,000, then they were actually doing very well for themselves even reaching 10,000-18,000.

[TobyS]

I disagree. The idea that Saiyans are even reaching 18,000 is already way above the normal for the universe, as even Nameks were said to have abnormal amounts of power and most of them seemed to be around 1,000-3,000, with only Nail above that (and it is possible he only reached that after Saichoro unlocked his potential). Even if Saiyans trained like crazy, there is no guarantee that they would reach an extremely high battle power before dying on the battlefield and if most of the universe was below 3,000, then they were actually doing very well for themselves even reaching 10,000-18,000.

Actually this isnt really accurate.

I mean that most of them were not doing well for themselves by reaching what you said, because they were not reaching that number.

Vegeta was the one who was 18,000, he had long since surpassed his father even when he was a child (so presumably weaker then as an adult). Meaning that King Vegeta was less then this. Vegeta >>> Kid Vegeta >> King Vegeta (starting to get into weak territory)

Nappa, who was a super elite, probably the strongest super elite except maybe king Vegeta or Bardock, by virtue of the fact he was assigned to look after the prince.

And he was only about 3000-7000. And that was after he had had 20 years to train after all the other, by extension weaker, super elites were long gone. The fact is those 3 Namekian farmers could probably have taken him out, together.

Raditz, a third class, was only about 1200-1500 And he had also had time to get stronger. Meaning most third classes were even weaker then this.

The only reason the Saiyans were dangerous is because they would rellentlessly and murderously attack other planets sneakily chosen to match their own skill level, hunt in teams, use Oozaru, and escape in a moments notice in those cool spacepods.

With this in mind, Freeza was concerned with the fact that some elites were STARTING to become relavent when compared the other troops of the WTO while obviously not being as loyal. When he saw a third class also doing this, he wisely decided to pull the plug.

Compared to planets outside of Earth it was more the fearcness of Saiyans and the recent growth of a few that made them reknowned.

[TobyS]

Pan doesn't count, Pan did not LOVE fighting like a Full Blooded Saiyajin. She was in it for Adventure and collecting the Dragon Balls. Also, Trunks was training with his Father for the Martial Arts Tournament as well as Gohan and Goten. Trunks/Goten .. Did not want to train, but had to for Fusion and Majin Buu. Also, after the Buu saga, the last episode, Gohan wasn't training Hardcore like his Father and Vegeta. Goku and Vegeta will always train to protect, and they love the thrill of fight. Gohan, Goten, Trunks are not ruthless and never want to fight hardcore, unless they fuse or have to, then they are just PURE arrogant. So Goku is not Ruthless? He hit his head when he was a baby, he still is Hardcore. Does that answer your question?

I'm sorry but we saw like 20 minutes of Post Buu footage.

1.Gohan probably did still train, that last time he stopped everyone suffered for it, and he is smart enough to realise that and caring enough to not do it again.
2.With his potential unlocked he probably doesnt need to anyway. The only reason the perpetuation of this 'Gohan didn't train or stay strong' myth is people fanwanking Goku and Vegeta trying to create any scenario where they are stronger somehow closing the humoungus gap between SSJ3 Goku and Unlocked Gohan.
3. Hell we even saw Goten training with Goku, and he expressed a desire to one day be stronger then him.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Actually this isnt really accurate.

I mean that most of them were not doing well for themselves by reaching what you said, because they were not reaching that number.

Vegeta was the one who was 18,000, he had long since surpassed his father even when he was a child (so presumably weaker then as an adult). Meaning that King Vegeta was less then this. Vegeta >>> Kid Vegeta >> King Vegeta (starting to get into weak territory)

Nappa, who was a super elite, probably the strongest super elite except maybe king Vegeta or Bardock, by virtue of the fact he was assigned to look after the prince.

And he was only about 3000-7000. And that was after he had had 20 years to train after all the other, by extension weaker, super elites were long gone. The fact is those 3 Namekian farmers could probably have taken him out, together.

Raditz, a third class, was only about 1200-1500 And he had also had time to get stronger. Meaning most third classes were even weaker then this.

The only reason the Saiyans were dangerous is because they would rellentlessly and murderously attack other planets sneakily chosen to match their own skill level, hunt in teams, use Oozaru, and escape in a moments notice in those cool spacepods.

With this in mind, Freeza was concerned with the fact that some elites were STARTING to become relavent when compared the other troops of the WTO while obviously not being as loyal. When he saw a third class also doing this, he wisely decided to pull the plug.

Compared to planets outside of Earth it was more the fearcness of Saiyans and the recent growth of a few that made them reknowned.

First, next time use the right person's handle for the quote. lol

I'm not suggesting all Saiyans were reaching 18,000, you are applying my statements to the whole race when it isn't supposed to be. I am well aware that Vegeta is the only one to reach 18,000 before the Goku-Vegeta power struggle begins, thats why I used that number as my maximum example in the beginning of my statement. But since a single Saiyan is able to reach the level of power, it potentially puts a good chunk of them in the upper power ranks of the universe, even for some of the weaker Saiyans. The Daizenshuu list Bardock and Broly at around 10,000, and also state that King Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan of the time, save for his son, so he has to be at least 10,000 as well. That leaves a wide range of 1-9,999 for all other Saiyans below them, and if the the beginning of abnormal power for beings in the universe begins at around 1,000-3,000 that still leaves Saiyans doing better than the rest of the universe as long as they are above 1,000. Goku, one of the strongest fighters in the universe, still took 20 years to get near that while fighting enemies on a backwoods planet with beings that have an average power of 5. If most Saiyans are fighting beings weaker than them, I don't see them getting much stronger....like Goku fighting the grunt soldiers in the RRA.

BTW, your argument for Raditz is pointless. Raditz was still a kid when Vegeta was destroyed. We have no idea what the actual powers of adult low class warriors really were back then, other than Bardock reaching near 10,000. Same applies for Nappa, he may have gotten stronger since Vegeta's destruction, but he was also getting older and potentially losing power by the time he got to Earth.

[Dayspring]

[quote="TheDevilsCorps"[/quote]I'm not suggesting all Saiyans were reaching 18,000, you are applying my statements to the whole race when it isn't supposed to be. I am well aware that Vegeta is the only one to reach 18,000 before the Goku-Vegeta power struggle begins, thats why I used that number as my maximum example in the beginning of my statement. But since a single Saiyan is able to reach the level of power, it potentially puts a good chunk of them in the upper power ranks of the universe, even for some of the weaker Saiyans. The Daizenshuu list Bardock and Broly at around 10,000, and also state that King Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan of the time, save for his son, so he has to be at least 10,000 as well. That leaves a wide range of 1-9,999 for all other Saiyans below them, and if the the beginning of abnormal power for beings in the universe begins at around 1,000-3,000 that still leaves Saiyans doing better than the rest of the universe as long as they are above 1,000. Goku, one of the strongest fighters in the universe, still took 20 years to get near that while fighting enemies on a backwoods planet with beings that have an average power of 5. If most Saiyans are fighting beings weaker than them, I don't see them getting much stronger....like Goku fighting the grunt soldiers in the RRA.

BTW, your argument for Raditz is pointless. Raditz was still a kid when Vegeta was destroyed. We have no idea what the actual powers of adult low class warriors really were back then, other than Bardock reaching near 10,000. Same applies for Nappa, he may have gotten stronger since Vegeta's destruction, but he was also getting older and potentially losing power by the time he got to Earth.[/quote]
Going with the daizenshuu, Radditz was an example of the average lowest level Saiyan, so most Saiyans are above that mark. Goku's 5,000 should have been impossible for him to reach, so we know that Lowest Level Saiyans cap off somewhere between 1,500 and 5,000.

Regardless, Saiyans have no limits, which is why Goku and Vegeta become as powerful as they eventually do. If all Saiyans loved to train whenever they didn't have the chance to fight, they'd have made significantly higher gains than a cap of much less than 18,000. If fighting is the best method to get stronger and training is the second, then fighting and training 24/7 for all their lives would mean they'd all eventually become SSJs.