Herms' BoG Strength Run-Down - How accurate is it?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Not that I don't trust Herms, but when he made that guide, he didn't have the movie in front of him. I already found some errors there: God Goku didn't deflect Beerus' ki blast, and Beerus comment about having great fighting sense wasn't going to Gotenks, it was going to Vegeta.

But what about the rest of it? Are there any other mistakes? For example, I've checked various fan subs, and I usually see God Goku saying that he couldn't reach that realm on his own, not that he never knew that there was a realm like this. Another example is, Beerus says that he didn't get to see Goku's full potential (which is true, since he fought with 100% SSGod Goku for only a few seconds), but the guide says that Goku has immeasurable latent power. Of course, the subs could be wrong. But are they?

[xmysticgohanx]

I would also like to know whether Goku said on his own or not because it would help with SSJ3 Vegetto vs Beerus discussion.

[Herms]

I did make that thing before I'd even seen the movie myself and was just going off of stuff Kei provided...so yeah, it's really in need of an update. That's actually why I never added it to the Guide Guide, since I was waiting until after I updated it. But I just never seem to get around to it. If nothing else I'll make an updated/expanded version as part of Strengtha-palooza...which is another project I need to get back to.

[Herms]

Alright, so I went and checked the movie.

For example, I've checked various fan subs, and I usually see God Goku saying that he couldn't reach that realm on his own, not that he never knew that there was a realm like this.

He says both of those things back-to-back. The first bit's this:

こんな世界があったなんてよ
kon'na sekai ga atta nante yo

Which is a bit hard to translate literally, but he's expressing surprise that there could be a "world" like this (ie like Super Saiyan God). Then he says that it's a "world" he couldn't reach on his own.

Another example is, Beerus says that he didn't get to see Goku's full potential (which is true, since he fought with 100% SSGod Goku for only a few seconds), but the guide says that Goku has immeasurable latent power. Of course, the subs could be wrong. But are they?

I wrote this in the Translation Thread as well, but he does indeed say that Goku's latent power is "immeasurable" (aitsu no senzai-nouryoku wa hakari-shirenee mono go aru).

[Kid Buu]

If nothing else I'll make an updated/expanded version as part of Strengtha-palooza...which is another project I need to get back to.

Oh I almost finished the battle record for that.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Thanks a lot Herms!

What could Goku having immeasurable latent power mean? Except if Beerus can sense how much latent power one has, I guess he means that there is no telling how strong he can get?

[Low Tone G]

What could Goku having immeasurable latent power mean? Except if Beerus can sense how much latent power one has, I guess he means that there is no telling how strong he can get?

I think it's simplier than You think it is. We saw Goku was able to absorb Beerus' attack which overwhelmed his power, but Goku was able to absorb it even if he was completely exaused and may be unconscious before transforming into SSJ God for the second time. I don't think it was technique, it was his inner power.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

We don't know exactly what Goku did with Beerus ki blast (not even Goku & Beerus do), so I guess we will have to wait for whatever comes next to get the answer. Until then, all we can do is speculate.

But what God Goku did is nearly identical to what he did as a Super Saiyan 4 with Oozaru Baby's Revenge Death Ball.

[Hugo Boss]

What could Goku having immeasurable latent power mean? Except if Beerus can sense how much latent power one has, I guess he means that there is no telling how strong he can get?

I guess almost the same, there is no established limit for how strong Goku can get due to his immeasurable latent power. Toriyama seems to suggest that someday Goku will close the gap between him and Beerus or eventually surpass Beerus.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Alright, so I went and checked the movie.

For example, I've checked various fan subs, and I usually see God Goku saying that he couldn't reach that realm on his own, not that he never knew that there was a realm like this.

He says both of those things back-to-back. The first bit's this:

こんな世界があったなんてよ
kon'na sekai ga atta nante yo

Which is a bit hard to translate literally, but he's expressing surprise that there could be a "world" like this (ie like Super Saiyan God). Then he says that it's a "world" he couldn't reach on his own.

Another example is, Beerus says that he didn't get to see Goku's full potential (which is true, since he fought with 100% SSGod Goku for only a few seconds), but the guide says that Goku has immeasurable latent power. Of course, the subs could be wrong. But are they?

I wrote this in the Translation Thread as well, but he does indeed say that Goku's latent power is "immeasurable" (aitsu no senzai-nouryoku wa hakari-shirenee mono go aru).

Doesn't he say that both Goku/Vegeta have immesaurable latent power, or just Goku alone?

[Herms]

Doesn't he say that both Goku/Vegeta have immesaurable latent power, or just Goku alone?

Just Goku. He says Goku and Vegeta might eventually become formidable foes though.

[Fionordequester]

Which is a bit hard to translate literally, but he's expressing surprise that there could be a "world" like this (ie like Super Saiyan God). Then he says that it's a "world" he couldn't reach on his own.

So he's reached a whole new realm of power then, right? I don't think it's always bad to not be totally literal in your translations!

[Kamiccolo9]

Which is a bit hard to translate literally, but he's expressing surprise that there could be a "world" like this (ie like Super Saiyan God). Then he says that it's a "world" he couldn't reach on his own.

So he's reached a whole new realm of power then, right? I don't think it's always bad to not be totally literal in your translations!

Well, what do you mean by realm?
Do you mean it as in "he's become so powerful that he couldn't have even imagined it before," or
"he's achieved a different kind of power, that he was unable to comprehend before?"

Both of those meanings work. given what we learn in the movie.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Beerus said that Goku absorbed the realm of the form in the movie, and then Toriyama says the same, but uses the word power instead of realm. So, I guess realm = power in these cases.

[hleV]

So he's reached a whole new realm of power then, right? I don't think it's always bad to not be totally literal in your translations!

The "realm" thing doesn't necessarily have to be power-specific. It might have to do with the new, godly ki.

Beerus said that Goku absorbed the realm of the form in the movie, and then Toriyama says the same, but uses the word power instead of realm. So, I guess realm = power in these cases.

Goku absorbed both the realm and the power, yes. They don't have to be the same thing at all.

[sekzee]

Are you implying he absorbed the Godly World of the Gods?

No. Dimensions apart and worlds apart have been used previously to demonstrate that the powers being compared are vastly too different, so it is likely that realm is being used synonymously.

[Polyphase Avatron]

It just means a whole new level of power.

[hleV]

Are you implying he absorbed the Godly World of the Gods?

... No?

No. Dimensions apart and worlds apart have been used previously to demonstrate that the powers being compared are vastly too different, so it is likely that realm is being used synonymously.

Previously there was nothing else but level of power to be used as a synonym for "realm". In BOG, we now have a different type of power. Surely the superior godly ki could be said to be on a whole different realm than normal ki, without comparing the actual amounts of them.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Previously there was nothing else but level of power to be used as a synonym for "realm". In BOG, we now have a different type of power. Surely the inferior godly ki could be said to be on a whole different realm than normal ki, without comparing the actual amounts of them.

But Goku said that he never imagined such a realm (or was surprised it existed, or something like that), while he is extremely familiar with gods.

[hleV]

Previously there was nothing else but level of power to be used as a synonym for "realm". In BOG, we now have a different type of power. Surely the inferior godly ki could be said to be on a whole different realm than normal ki, without comparing the actual amounts of them.

But Goku said that he never imagined such a realm (or was surprised it existed, or something like that), while he is extremely familiar with gods.

I'm not sure what being familiar with gods has to do with being unfamiliar with godly ki. Goku had never sensed it before, let alone had it.