The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Peach]

Roshi, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Yajirobi vs. Raditz

Imagine that Raditz had killed Piccolo and Goku had died of the heart virus earlier. Is there any scenario where the Earthlings could beat Raditz?

[Almighty Majin]

Roshi, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Yajirobi vs. Raditz

Imagine that Raditz had killed Piccolo and Goku had died of the heart virus earlier. Is there any scenario where the Earthlings could beat Raditz?

Yeah. Krillin, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu distract Raditz enough for his tail to be grabbed, which Yajirobe cuts off. Raditz is in shock and then Tien stuns him with a Tri-Beam. Finally, Roshi uses the Mafuba to seal him away or maybe we can get spicy and have Roshi and Tien use a Super Mafuba together, thus sharing the strain of the technique so neither dies (maybe Tien doesn't use the Tri-Beam then...). Anyways that is my scenario of teamwork between the Earthlings prevailing.

[Kamiccolo9]

Roshi, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Yajirobi vs. Raditz

Imagine that Raditz had killed Piccolo and Goku had died of the heart virus earlier. Is there any scenario where the Earthlings could beat Raditz?

Wouldn't this basically be a repeat of the Nappa fight, but even more lopsided without Gohan and Piccolo there to get some good hits in?

They get dismembered.

[Hugo Boss]

New match:

- Super Baby Vegeta 2 vs. Super Saiyan God Goku

I think it would play out quite similar with Baby vs. SS4 Goku. Baby would probably need his Golden Great Ape form to compete with SSG Goku.

[LightBing]

Roshi, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Yajirobi vs. Raditz

Imagine that Raditz had killed Piccolo and Goku had died of the heart virus earlier. Is there any scenario where the Earthlings could beat Raditz?

(77%) Roshi, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu vs (23%) Raditz

The Earthlings win most of the time.
Even with the huge gap in power, they have numbers, Ki control and numerous techniques to surprise the Saiyan.
Roshi and Tien both know the Mafuba; Kikoho probably could deal decent damage, Taiyoken always works.

They also have knowledge of the tail weakness. Which is the most important factor, without this their odds go down greatly.

In the scenarios Raditz wins, he just doesn't foul around and blitz's most of them.

[Hellspawn28]

Bardock vs. North Kai

The battle takes place on North Kai's planet

Who wins?

[nineko]

Which Bardock? The OG one is stated to have a power level of around 10000, which is more than enough to make easy work of North Kaiou. And that's without transforming into Super Saiyan, as a more recent Bardock can.

They tried to retcon Kaiou's power in an anime-only filler, when they say that he's stronger than Recoome, but I'm not buying it, I'll stick with canon Kaiou, stronger than Raditz but weaker than Nappa.

Also, the location doesn't matter, since Kaiou's planet has the same gravity as the planet on which Bardock used to live, so none of then has an advantage. Unless Kaiou can outsmart Bardock, being more used to the small geography, but I don't see that happening, since Bardock has way more actual battle experience.

[Peach]

Master Roshi (Tournament of Power) vs. Future Zamasu

[ZombieVito]

Bardock vs. North Kai

The battle takes place on North Kai's planet

Who wins?

I assume you mean canon Bardock since Z Bardock is at 10,000 while Kaio is only at 3,500.

I have Kaio stronger but Bardock should be the better fighter so he might have a chance.

Master Roshi (Tournament of Power) vs. Future Zamasu

Roshi gets finger flicked unless he uses the Mafuba.

[Almighty Majin]

Ginyu Force vs Shadow Dragons, equal stats:
Guldo vs Haze Shenron
Recoome vs Rage Shenron
Burter vs Naturon Shenron (mole form only, no absorption)
Jeice vs Oceanus Shenron
Captain Ginyu vs Eis Shenron

Super Buu (God Ki unlocked, SSJ3 Teen Gotenks, Orange Piccolo, Gohan Beast Absorbed) vs UI Goku, UE Vegeta, and Granolah

[Hellspawn28]

If Goku didn't die against Radditz, but train in the Room of Spirt and Time with Piccolo for one day. Would Goku and Piccolo able to beat Nappa and Vegeta?

[TobyS]

If Goku didn't die against Radditz, but train in the Room of Spirt and Time with Piccolo for one day. Would Goku and Piccolo able to beat Nappa and Vegeta?

They could have beaten Nappa how they beat Raditz without the time chamber.

Vegeta would be another matter, keep in mind they have a year outside and 1 year inside, if they did their ROSAT at the end of the year I think they could handle it and get enough gains for Vegeta especially with the rest of the fighters.

[GatoF]

Shin vs SSJ Kid Trunks (black arc)

[Peach]

If Goku didn't die against Radditz, but train in the Room of Spirt and Time with Piccolo for one day. Would Goku and Piccolo able to beat Nappa and Vegeta?

There are two Sparking Zero What If Stories that covers this -- without the time chamber.

[daniel1]

Hey everyone, I just published an article a few days ago that I think would interest everyone reading this thread. It's too long to write everything here, but I spent months researching it and I think it's probably the most objective and definitive take on this topic. It's about who is stronger between Kid Buu and Buuhan. If you have any questions after reading it, feel free to ask me and I'll try to get back to you as soon as possible.

https://medium.com/p/6719085bb688

[ZombieVito]

Shin vs SSJ Kid Trunks (black arc)

Shin one shots him.

[TobyS]

Hey everyone, I just published an article a few days ago that I think would interest everyone reading this thread. It's too long to write everything here, but I spent months researching it and I think it's probably the most objective and definitive take on this topic. It's about who is stronger between Kid Buu and Buuhan. If you have any questions after reading it, feel free to ask me and I'll try to get back to you as soon as possible.

https://medium.com/p/6719085bb688

Not great dude, first of all the conclusion is wrong.
toriyama making guys who don't look strong be strong is something he does but not always.
Kuririn wasn't stronger than Nappa, Raditz was stronger goku and piccolo.
The smaller guy being stronger is usually tied with the pairs of characters being introduced not a single character.

You include a bunch of video game shit and quotes from people not toriyama who don't matter.
None of that ancillary shit counters Goku saying he could kill pure buu, but being willing to ostensibly die by fusing with Vegito to fight a weaker boo? While also being scared of base super boo.

You have to make Goku and Vegeta look like assholes when they misjudge boo on something so shallow despite the fact they sense ki, it makes no sense they'd sense his ki getting big, see him get smaller, but turn off their ki sensing and assume he got weaker also with no proof, even though he was so much stronger than them before and got stronger still when Buff.

Most of all it's just way too long, you searched for quantity of evidence rather than quality.
It's also been done to death so it's kind of a tired topic.

[Hugo Boss]

Hey everyone, I just published an article a few days ago that I think would interest everyone reading this thread. It's too long to write everything here, but I spent months researching it and I think it's probably the most objective and definitive take on this topic. It's about who is stronger between Kid Buu and Buuhan. If you have any questions after reading it, feel free to ask me and I'll try to get back to you as soon as possible.

https://medium.com/p/6719085bb688

First of all, I think you nicely put together all the stuff that you could relate to the debate, although I think you sometimes went a little beyond what was said and I agree with the user above that there is a lot of stuff that could be left out or just plainly detached to an extra section.

I will address only the arguments that I feel need clarification.

1. Did the absorptions of the Kaioshins weaken Majin Boo? I think this is kinda implied, but Shin wasn’t really comparing the powered-up versions of Majin Boo with Pure Boo, but rather with the fat and “innocent” Boo. The important part of his speech is presenting the original Boo as the most chaotic form. The absorptions of the South and Dai Kaioshins diluted his raw destructive nature, which Super Boo lacked, since he didn’t destroy stuff instantly.

2. Do character designs favor Boo’s original form? Toriyama’s design philosophy definitely supports this. He mentions (in interviews) the simplification of forms, leading to sleeker and deadlier designs as seen with Freeza and Cell. Thus, Pure Boo’s design reflects that pattern, though this is not necessarily enough to draw any conclusions.

3. Was SS3 Goku wrong about defeating Majin Boo with a full-powered blast? Goku believed he could beat Pure Boo if fully powered, but he struggled to maintain SS3 for long. Goku’s admission shows he underestimated the strain SS3 placed on him. So while his assessment may not have been fully correct, his energy depletion was the real limitation, as their fight started very close-on.

4. Did Goku underestimate himself when comparing to Super Boo? He wasn’t confident about defeating Super Boo on his own and suggested there was a significant difference between them. But he never tried anyway, so, while this is likely true, Goku could have been downplaying his own abilities.

5. Did SS3 Goku’s strength increase during his fight with Pure Boo? There’s no direct evidence in the manga that Goku’s strength increased mid-fight. However, Saiyan physiology allows for quick adaptation, and Toriyama’s statement about Saiyans growing stronger while fighting may be applicable in retrospect. So, it’s possible Goku was improving as the battle progressed, though none ever directly acknowledged this.

[daniel1]

Not great dude, first of all the conclusion is wrong.
toriyama making guys who don't look strong be strong is something he does but not always.
Kuririn wasn't stronger than Nappa, Raditz was stronger goku and piccolo.
The smaller guy being stronger is usually tied with the pairs of characters being introduced not a single character.

I actually explain in the article that this is a trope and not applicable to every single situation.

You include a bunch of video game shit and quotes from people not toriyama who don't matter.

I can't tell if you're being serious. Toriyama is in 90% of the quotes. There are 2 quotes that aren't from him. Or maybe you're referring to the translations?

None of that ancillary shit counters Goku saying he could kill pure buu, but being willing to ostensibly die by fusing with Vegito to fight a weaker boo? While also being scared of base super boo.

You have to make Goku and Vegeta look like assholes when they misjudge boo on something so shallow despite the fact they sense ki, it makes no sense they'd sense his ki getting big, see him get smaller, but turn off their ki sensing and assume he got weaker also with no proof, even though he was so much stronger than them before and got stronger still when Buff.

I completely agree with you. I don't think the Buu Saga is that well-written when compared to prior story arcs.

Most of all it's just way too long, you searched for quantity of evidence rather than quality.
It's also been done to death so it's kind of a tired topic.

I respectfully disagree with you. I think you're conflating the "Other Media" section into some more than it is. That section was used to illustrate that the people actually involved with making official Dragon Ball content tend to agree with one interpretation in this debate. It's an exhaustive list, as well.

[daniel1]

First of all, I think you nicely put together all the stuff that you could relate to the debate, although I think you sometimes went a little beyond what was said and I agree with the user above that there is a lot of stuff that could be left out or just plainly detached to an extra section.

Thank you! I really put a lot of work into it. I'm sure some tweaks could be done, but I tried to make it as exhaustive as possible. I didn't design it with a normal reader in mind, but rather one that wouldn't mind reading something this long on the topic. I fully acknowledge that this article is not for everyone.

1. Did the absorptions of the Kaioshins weaken Majin Boo?

The power reduction is directly stated, not implied. The part that implies toward it is what Dabura says. You are correct in that it was comparing Fat Buu to Kid Buu, but it's still important to keep in mind. This point alone was not conclusive, but rather illustrative of the larger picture.

2. Do character designs favor Boo’s original form?

Exactly. It would be a very poor argument to use that alone as justification. That's why the article also goes into greater depth than that.

3. Was SS3 Goku wrong about defeating Majin Boo with a full-powered blast?

We have no reason to believe Goku was wrong on this as he knew exactly how much energy the Genki-dama would need to destroy Kid Buu. If he was able to generate the necessary amount of energy, he would have likely defeated Kid Buu without help.

4. Did Goku underestimate himself when comparing to Super Boo?

It's possible that he didn't understand his own growth after fusing. But that really focuses on speculation, and I wanted the article to be as fact-based as possible.

5. Did SS3 Goku’s strength increase during his fight with Pure Boo?

Yes, you're correct. In the manga, the only thing we have to judge Goku's power in that moment is Vegeta's monologue praising him. Since then, there has since been a plethora of sources confirming his strength.