Why Didn't Goku Teach Piccolo the Kaio-ken?

[ekrolo2]

We all know the Android arc is essentially the last time Piccolo proves himself viable in a fight before the Saiyan's leave him in the dust, but why didn't Goku offer to teach him the Kaio-ken during the three year preparation time? Surely it would've helped him out a lot for the Androids should his training not prove itself enough and after all, the whole point of going with the training route was to give everyone a chance to improve as much as possible?

Now I know everyone's an idiot in the Android Saga and that's why Goku doesn't teach him, but barring that fact, are there any other possible explanations?

[nickzambuto]

King Kai himself couldn't fully master the technique, and even at equal power levels, Saiyans have always been a particularly tough and sturdy race. Perhaps humans and Namekians just wouldn't be able to handle the strain, perhaps Goku is literally the only person in the universe who can, as he possesses the strongest will out of a whole race of the toughest warriors in the universe.

[Darkprince410]

We don't know how Goku was taught the Kaiou-ken or what it entailed, as it all took place "off screen". For all we know, it could involve something that North Kaiou needs to give to the individual to help with the technique, and that's something that Goku wasn't capable of doing on his own. We know too little about the technique to know whether it'd even be possible for someone other than North Kaiou to teach it.

[ekrolo2]

We don't know how Goku was taught the Kaiou-ken or what it entailed, as it all took place "off screen". For all we know, it could involve something that North Kaiou needs to give to the individual to help with the technique, and that's something that Goku wasn't capable of doing on his own. We know too little about the technique to know whether it'd even be possible for someone other than North Kaiou to teach it.

Goku still knows the IT so if King Kai is the only one who can teach the technique, Goku can still take Piccolo to King Kai and have him help with the training if its really necessary.

[Pantalones]

Does Goku even teach his moves to anyone he trains with? The Kamehameha seems to be fairly simple to pick up once you're good at controlling your ki in the first place, so of course everyone who's even remotely connected to Goku ends up learning that... but does anyone else ever use any of Goku's techniques? "Why didn't Goku teach anyone else Instant Transmission?" is a question that comes up a lot, too... and of course there's the Kaio-ken, and nobody else seems to know the Spirit Bomb either. Including movies and GT, there's no sign of anyone else ever picking up Dragon Fist either.

It seems like Goku just doesn't ever think to teach anyone else his special techniques. The only exception was teaching the Fusion Dance to the kids, and even then it seems like he only did it because of the whole "I'm dead and can't come back after this 24 hours are up, so I'd better make it possible for somebody else to save the world just in case" thing and wanting the next generation to handle it.

Aside from Kaio-ken, Spirit Bomb, and Instant Transmission which he's specifically stated to have had to do some training to learn, he seems to have picked up his entire arsenal by the "watch it used by someone else once, then copy it" method -- like with Roshi's Kamehameha, Krillin's Kienzan, the dead Metamorians' Fusion Dance, etc... so it'd make sense that he wouldn't really think of going "oh wait, not everyone picks stuff up that fast" and taking time out to explain how to use a technique to somebody else. Maybe the only reason nobody else ever learned any of them is because most of the others are just too proud to come to Goku specifically to ask to learn Kaio-ken or Spirit Bomb or Instant Transmission or whatever.

[LuckyCat]

^I think pride has a lot to do with it. Piccolo has his own set of Demon-style moves, and it's unlikely he'd be willing to sacrifice his pride by copying Goku. Besides, Piccolo had a chance to learn the technique from North Kaio after the fight with Saiyans, and he basically passed on it or any other Kaio moves.

[ekrolo2]

^I think pride has a lot to do with it. Piccolo has his own set of Demon-style moves, and it's unlikely he'd be willing to sacrifice his pride by copying Goku. Besides, Piccolo had a chance to learn the technique from North Kaio after the fight with Saiyans, and he basically passed on it or any other Kaio moves.

While I agree with that Pantalones said, this doesn't really seem like a good excuse to me. Piccolo was there for a handful of days so I really doubt he'd be able to learn much of anything in that time span.

[LuckyCat]

^I think pride has a lot to do with it. Piccolo has his own set of Demon-style moves, and it's unlikely he'd be willing to sacrifice his pride by copying Goku. Besides, Piccolo had a chance to learn the technique from North Kaio after the fight with Saiyans, and he basically passed on it or any other Kaio moves.

While I agree with that Pantalones said, this doesn't really seem like a good excuse to me. Piccolo was there for a handful of days so I really doubt he'd be able to learn much of anything in that time span.

He's supposed to have been there for a fairly good amount of time though. He tells Gohan his power has increased several times over from being there and he can take on Freeza (This is before he gets wished back).

[ekrolo2]

^I think pride has a lot to do with it. Piccolo has his own set of Demon-style moves, and it's unlikely he'd be willing to sacrifice his pride by copying Goku. Besides, Piccolo had a chance to learn the technique from North Kaio after the fight with Saiyans, and he basically passed on it or any other Kaio moves.

While I agree with that Pantalones said, this doesn't really seem like a good excuse to me. Piccolo was there for a handful of days so I really doubt he'd be able to learn much of anything in that time span.

He's supposed to have been there for a fairly good amount of time though. He tells Gohan his power has increased several times over from being there and he can take on Freeza (This is before he gets wished back).

The story itself contradicts this though. King Kai doesn't tell Goku they've gotten there until they essentially get there at which point Goku himself is only 4-5 days away from Namek. If they were there for a while, why would King Kai give them the joke test if he was already training them?

[LuckyCat]

The story itself contradicts this though. King Kai doesn't tell Goku they've gotten there until they essentially get there at which point Goku himself is only 4-5 days away from Namek. If they were there for a while, why would King Kai give them the joke test if he was already training them?

That particular joke test is anime-only (and cut from Kai, I believe). In the manga, it's left to the reader's imagination how long the group had been there before Kaio informed Goku.

[ekrolo2]

The story itself contradicts this though. King Kai doesn't tell Goku they've gotten there until they essentially get there at which point Goku himself is only 4-5 days away from Namek. If they were there for a while, why would King Kai give them the joke test if he was already training them?

That particular joke test is anime-only (and cut from Kai, I believe). In the manga, it's left to the reader's imagination how long the group had been there before Kaio informed Goku.

You sure about that?

Spoiler:

[Darkprince410]

He's supposed to have been there for a fairly good amount of time though. He tells Gohan his power has increased several times over from being there and he can take on Freeza (This is before he gets wished back).

In both the manga and the anime, Piccolo was only there for six days, the same number of days it took Goku to arrive on Namek.

[LuckyCat]

Even training a few days could still work. Chapter: 211 (DBZ 17), P2.4 "Kaio: 'Training here on this planet with me for 158 days…is as valuable as you training several thousand years on Earth.'"

This could explain how Piccolo can multiply his power. As to why he or none of the other Z fighters didn't learn Kaio techniques is anyone's guess.

[ekrolo2]

Even training a few days could still work. Chapter: 211 (DBZ 17), P2.4 "Kaio: 'Training here on this planet with me for 158 days…is as valuable as you training several thousand years on Earth.'"

This could explain how Piccolo can multiply his power. As to why he or none of the other Z fighters didn't learn Kaio techniques is anyone's guess.

If the training was that effective, shouldn't Goku have made far better gains then given the fact he's basically designed to train & fight biologically?

[LuckyCat]

If the training was that effective, shouldn't Goku have made far better gains then given the fact he's basically designed to train & fight biologically?

Piccolo is also a "Warrior Type" Namek which are designed to fight well. I'm not sure how this line of questioning can help answer the thread's topic about Kaio-ken though.

[DanielSSJ]

A better question is, why didn't Kaio teach it to anyone while they were on is planet?

[DanielSSJ]

The story itself contradicts this though. King Kai doesn't tell Goku they've gotten there until they essentially get there at which point Goku himself is only 4-5 days away from Namek. If they were there for a while, why would King Kai give them the joke test if he was already training them?

That particular joke test is anime-only (and cut from Kai, I believe). In the manga, it's left to the reader's imagination how long the group had been there before Kaio informed Goku.

You sure about that?

Spoiler:

Just gonna say, I love that exchange between Piccolo and Kaio-sama.

[Akira]

I don't weigh in on too many discussions, but this one has captured my interest as it involves a question around one of my favorite techniques in the series. Here is my take on this. First, as was previously mentioned, most of Goku's training with North Kaio took place off panel or off screen. We saw the initial "grow accustomed to the gravity" tasks of capturing bubbles and, in the anime, hitting Gregory with the hammer. However, the technique training happens while we, as the readers/viewers, are pre-occupied watching what is going on with Piccolo and Gohan's training, the other warriors, Vegeta & Nappa on Arlia, etc.

What we are shown in episode is North Kaio doing the final Spirit Bomb test with Goku, and mentioning the limitations and extreme circumstances restrictions on the Kaioken technique. There is one brief glimpse of the Kaioken training though, something prior to that episode. It is odd, in that it is not always seen, due to where it exists. Instead of taking place during an episode proper, it is during the "previous episode recap" portion beforehand. Despite not having actually being shown during the previous episode, it is shown more as a "while you were watching the previous episode, Goku was up to this during the same time" kind of way.

The clip shows the road around Kaio's planet, with his vintage car moved safely out of the way of course, set up with stone barriers along the circumference of the planet along the road. Kaio himself is demonstrating the base Kaioken (as in the oft mis-concepted elsewhere "x1" version, which yields simply a bright white flaming aura, without the signature crimson color that seems to be indicative of a multiplier being present.) Kaio is only able to maintain even the basic state a short distance, without a multiplier, and is tired out quickly. Yet, Goku, who has watched the basic idea and picked up the concept, continues onward, demolishing each of the barriers along the way. This is our only insight into the actual Kaioken training, but it gives us an idea of just how energy intensive and probably time-consuming teaching the technique was. I personally don't believe it was easily taught, especially considering that despite being the originator of the technique, Kaio himself never could master it. He showed Goku how to get started, and then probably had to just talk him through his personal theory for how to develop it further. When Goku uses the attack on Nappa, it is a straight instant burst to the double Kaioken, but when he powers it up fully to attack Vegeta early in their bout, and use it more extensively, he does it safely through activating it (White aura, base Kaioken), then activates the red flame multiplier for a more than just instant burst attack.

(For reference, while writing this post, I went through three DVDs and started a bunch of episodes to find this exact clip for reference. It is the re-cap before DBZ Episode 21, in case you wanted to check it out yourself.)

That being the case, and even though Goku is good at picking up techniques in this fashion, he can also be a dimwit at times, and it was highly likely a very lengthy ordeal. The fact is, Piccolo simply was not there long enough to have done this, on top of the fact that half the time the others are there, they are constantly distracted by the developments on Namek. As far as Goku not teaching it to anyone else, by the time they are at a point in the story where he could do so, he is already a Super Saiyan, and everyone else is so much stronger too, I don't know if it could be taught to someone who was already into the millions in power. The double up at that point might be more than could be handled to safely teach? Not to mention the pride thing, or the fact that Goku likely wouldn't teach desperation moves that could destroy the user or the world if mis-used.

Let's face it, Goku's only original technique is the Dragonfist. Everything else in his arsenal was taught by his masters, and half of them are on the edge of death situational desperation moves with serious drawbacks. He passes on the beneficial techniques, Kamehameha, Super Saiyan, Fusion Dance, and skips teaching moves that could easily backfire on the user. I think that is likely a relevant thought to consider when asking this question.

The manga scan shown above by another member has Tenshinhan planning to learn the technique and "add his own twist". The realistic question we should ask is, "Did Tenshinhan have enough time to learn the basic Kaioken before he left?" Krillin and Yamcha were wished back right away when the Namekians were on earth, but Tenshinhan and Choutzu had more time there than the others before being wished back, and more importantly, un-distracted one on one training time with North Kaio. Is it possible he learned the basis of it before being wished back? That is something maybe worth considering.

Good discussion topic, I've enjoyed participating on this one so far.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Better question is why didn't king kai teach it to anyone other then Goku?

Real world-Toriyama forgot

In universe-plot hole.

[Darkprince410]

The clip shows the road around Kaio's planet, with his vintage car moved safely out of the way of course, set up with stone barriers along the circumference of the planet along the road. Kaio himself is demonstrating the base Kaioken (as in the oft mis-concepted elsewhere "x1" version, which yields simply a bright white flaming aura, without the signature crimson color that seems to be indicative of a multiplier being present.) Kaio is only able to maintain even the basic state a short distance, without a multiplier, and is tired out quickly. Yet, Goku, who has watched the basic idea and picked up the concept, continues onward, demolishing each of the barriers along the way. This is our only insight into the actual Kaioken training, but it gives us an idea of just how energy intensive and probably time-consuming teaching the technique was. I personally don't believe it was easily taught, especially considering that despite being the originator of the technique, Kaio himself never could master it. He showed Goku how to get started, and then probably had to just talk him through his personal theory for how to develop it further. When Goku uses the attack on Nappa, it is a straight instant burst to the double Kaioken, but when he powers it up fully to attack Vegeta early in their bout, and use it more extensively, he does it safely through activating it (White aura, base Kaioken), then activates the red flame multiplier for a more than just instant burst attack.

That's all filler content though, and is essentially not even suggested in any way, shape, or form in the manga. Outside of Goku being shown preparing a Genki Dama, which he used to destroy a large object thrown by Kaiou, the only aspect of their actual training we're shown is Goku being knocked away by Kaiou with a palm thrust.

Everything shown of their training together between Goku catching Bubbles to mastering the Genki Dama:

Spoiler:

The base Kaiou-ken is a 2x increase, as the concept of a 2x Kaiou-ken isn't even mentioned until Goku used it part way through his battle with Vegeta in order to try and dodge Vegeta's fiery ki blast. Why Toriyama decided to have Goku call out Kaiou-ken 2x during that situation is unknown, but both prior to that and after, when Goku was just calling out "Kaiou-ken" (no number added) it was a 2x increase.