Role of women in Dragon Ball (and influenced in real-life)

[SilverPlaqueVII]

For starters I have noticed the women in the series claimed to be as "strong and sexy" but apparently, I have noticed the fact every girl such as Bulma, Chi-Chi, Lazuli, Videl, Pan and Bra have various personalities (depending on their mood). Sometimes, women are being rudely but insulted such as Bulma being yelled at by Freeza in RF "Shut your mouth woman!" and cat fights between Chi-Chi and Bulma in the Garlic Jr. Saga.

I have couple of friends in real life and I described them, as tough, smart, sexy, pure-hearted, and kind but they are treated as pleasant persons. They work in places like The Children's Place, Cineplex, McDonalds, AE, Gap, and any other fast-food, retail or grocery chains.

Does one of the female characters influenced you in real life? Any opinions? Women can do as they pleased and have rights.

EDIT: Sorry guys, had to correct many errors.

[ABED]

women are being rudely pressured such as Bulma being yelled at by Freeza in RF "Shut your mouth woman!"

Freeza is a villain, he can be an a-hole to women.

Bulma is goofy sometimes, but she's very smart. I like that mix.

[nickzambuto]

Sometimes, women are being rudely pressured such as Bulma being yelled at by Freeza in RF "Shut your mouth woman!"

Bulma being put in a realistic position where she needs to stand up to Freeza is disrespectful to woman because it pressured her? Well the series must freaking despise men in that case considering Goku gets the shit kicked out of him on a regular basis.

[Kamiccolo9]

I mean, to be honest, it's not like the men are portrayed as "normal," either.

If we're comparing "crazy personalities," none of the women in the series hold a candle to Goku the Idiot Savante, The Prince of all Assholes, Son "I have Stockholme Syndrome to the nth degree" Gohan, or Nosebleed Emperor Roshi.

And how do Pan, 18, and Videl have "crazy" personalities? And if anything, Bulma mellows out a ton as the series goes on and she grows up.

There are problems with the way Toriyama uses women, sure. But I think you're really reaching here.

[irreality]

I'm not sure what your point is. I think Toriyama wrote interesting and fairly realistic female characters, even if they end up being underulitized/sidelined in the story. I think that is a good thing (not the underutilization part, but their personalities) -- I think most of the female characters make decent role modeles/inspirations for different people, especially because they balance out the good and bad traits -- expecting women to be perfect can be just as damaging as having them be worthless.

I'm not sure what your real life friends or where they work have anything to do with it.

[TheGreatness25]

No female is portrayed well in Dragon Ball, really. Chichi is portrayed as a hot-head, Bulma is portrayed as a slutty hot-head (in Dragon Ball), Lunch is portrayed as ditsy and just flat out psycho, No. 18 is portrayed as a cold-hearted bitch, Videl is portrayed as a nosy and pushy hot-headed bitch, and Bra is portrayed as... she was in DBZ, right? Yeah? Okay, just checking because she did jack.

The only female that is portrayed well in Dragon Ball/Z is Pan, a fun-loving, lighthearted, and very strong little girl. Besides her, everybody is pretty much useless to the story. No. 18's only usefulness was as a villain.

In GT, in the very least, they really portrayed No. 18 well when she was avenging Kuririn's death. Bra was portrayed like a little tramp (no surprise there given her mom), and Pan... well, Pan was just bratty.

However, the same could be said about the male characters; all of them had things that made them kind of stupid or assholy people. The difference is that the story hinged on them.

[irreality]

I think that the fact that you describe all women as simply being bitches and hotheads says more about you than it does about the characters, to be quite honest.

For example, #18: when is she a bitch? She is shown as not taking any shit from Vegeta, a teenage delinquent, being a long-suffering sister, into fashion, and a good mother and wife, and sneaky enough to make deals with Mr. Satan. When is Bulma a "slut"? You mean because she has lots of crushes on cute guys? Or she flashed some perverted old guy once to get a priceless magical object? Yet she had only one long term boyfriend and a husband -- not sure how that makes her a slut. She has her mood swings, but what teenage girl doesn't (if we are talking Dragon Ball)? And she is brilliant and independent -- she travels the world with a gun, a car, and a motorcycle at the age of 16 to attain her wish. And she is not afraid to stand up to villains and give them a piece of her mind, while still caring for her friends. Her defining bad traits are that she is vain and pampered: which is expected for someone of her relative wealth and upbringing. Chichi has her yelling to solve problems moments, but she is also a devoted wife and mother, has an innocent personality and good motives, and is a good fighter. Videl acts quite normal for a competitive girl in highschool: wants to know who this guy who is really strong is (given it is competition for her own role as strongest young person), and has mood swings regarding her crush's opinion about her. She is also a young woman who helps combat crime and that the police and the school trust in positions of responsibility despite her young age.

Lunch clearly has something very wrong with her: she has some sort of mental disorder at best. Yet she has a very conciliatory, hard working and kind in her moments of lucidity as a compensating mechanism, even if her other personality is that of a violent klepto (although I find that interesting in the story: Kamesennin gets used to it and works around it). Eventually even Blonde Lunch becomes a more respectable character in the story: going to tournaments with them without freaking out, and even developing a crush on Tenshinhan.

Bra is a little girl, just like Pan, in DBZ. Bra is shown as being a girly girl cheering for her friends and family. Pan is a little girl that likes fighting and training like her grampa. Those are perfectly good characterizations for characters that are only in a couple of chapters and are like 4 years old.

There is lots to say about these characters, despite them not having a large role in the story: that is what I meant by the fact that they are good characters despite their complete underutilization.

Or I guess you can just say they are all bitches, which is what a lot of fans do.

[fadeddreams5]

I like the women in this series. I love how we've never had a generic, overly jovial girly gi--

*Stares at Videl 2.0*

*Hurls keyboard*

[TheGreatness25]

I think that the fact that you describe all women as simply being bitches and hotheads says more about you than it does about the characters, to be quite honest.

Really? I'm the bad guy because I don't consider having a female who starts yelling at everything for no apparent reason as being portrayed well? Yes, I must be sexist. Especially because I'd prefer that the female characters serve a bigger role than what they were put in. All of the main characters' kids who fight are boys. Vegeta has a daughter and her big role in the manga and anime was to stand there.

If I'm wrong about the female characters being portrayed mostly as bitchy, then why are there scenes that poke fun of the male characters being afraid of them? Chichi scares Roshi, Gohan, Goku, and even Piccolo. Bulma scares Oolong and Kuririn for the most part. Videl makes Gohan very uncomfortable through her blackmail tactics to get him to join the Teknaichi Budokai. No. 18 pushes Kuririn around.

Could one woman be like that? Sure. Could two? Why not? But all of the female characters except for Pan and Maron (Kuririn's daughter Maron, not Kuririn's ex who is a giant whore) are the only girls who don't just start shouting at everything. I'd prefer that some of the female characters played a much larger role in the series than just standing around shouting at people.

Oh and Dragon Ball is riddled with Bulma's slutty comments. Why'd she offer Goku to see her panties again? For a priceless artifact? All she ever offered anyone in Dragon Ball was a peek at her underwear.

I didn't say that they don't have their reasons for being "bitchy" or "slutty," I'm saying this is a fictional work so they don't have to be written to be that way in the first place. I could make the argument that Roshi is perverted because he's lived a long life by himself and never gets to see anybody, but that doesn't negate the fact that he's willing to stick his face into all of the women's breasts, does it? Do they have an excuse for how they act? Of course. But if it's a creative work, how hard is it to make a female character who is not like that?

Look at other works. Look at Batgirl and how she's so righteous, helpful, and kick-ass. Look at Catwoman who always seems to redeem herself. Look at Wonder Woman. Look at all of the stories where the women are portrayed in such a positive light. You can't really compare that to the way Dragon Ball portrays women. Am I sexist because I want women to do more than that? And Dragon Ball isn't really deep, it's pretty cut and dry; what you see is what you get. Don't look too deep into why they're acting the way they are.

Also doesn't help that by GT, everybody and their mother became a Super Saiyan........ except Pan. Every Saiyan character became a Super Saiyan, two as early as age seven and eight. But not Pan, nope. Pan's big contributions were getting in trouble. It's cute in the beginning, but it became a trend. Why couldn't she become a Super Saiyan? Why couldn't she defeat someone, anyone? Did she have some heroic moments? Sure, but nothing really huge. That goes for any female in Dragon Ball. Save for No. 18, none of them really defeated anybody despite it being very easy to write them in a way that they would, especially fighters such as Videl. Sure, have a female character who fights, but have her get annihilated by some pansy. Good going.

But yeah, I'm the bad guy.

[fadeddreams5]

Bulma is not slutty; she's flirty. The girl never intentionally showed her intimate parts to men, never had a boyfriend before Yamcha, and wasn't even sure of a male's anatomy, so we can rule out the possibility that she may have had casual sex with strangers. Besides her wealth and IQ, Bulma is a more normal/common and believable girl than most, if not all, of those super heroines you mentioned. =P

[TheGreatness25]

Well she's not a slut, but she sure is a little beyond flirty.

[noham-el]

What a b****

[SilverPlaqueVII]

With Playboy recently decided to end publishing nudity material in the March 2016 issue, I guess Bulma was dressed in a bunny outfit since her character had attracted men in their 20s and 30s (or simply shonens). Sorry I've gone off the wrong end.

Lazuli/#18 must have been the average woman and had exposed her bra to detonate herself in order to defeat Super #17.

Maron? That goes to show you a young girl dressed in a swimsuit nearly appealed men as well.

[rereboy]

Really? I'm the bad guy because I don't consider having a female who starts yelling at everything for no apparent reason as being portrayed well? Yes, I must be sexist. Especially because I'd prefer that the female characters serve a bigger role than what they were put in. All of the main characters' kids who fight are boys. Vegeta has a daughter and her big role in the manga and anime was to stand there.

If I'm wrong about the female characters being portrayed mostly as bitchy, then why are there scenes that poke fun of the male characters being afraid of them? Chichi scares Roshi, Gohan, Goku, and even Piccolo. Bulma scares Oolong and Kuririn for the most part. Videl makes Gohan very uncomfortable through her blackmail tactics to get him to join the Teknaichi Budokai. No. 18 pushes Kuririn around.

Could one woman be like that? Sure. Could two? Why not? But all of the female characters except for Pan and Maron (Kuririn's daughter Maron, not Kuririn's ex who is a giant whore) are the only girls who don't just start shouting at everything. I'd prefer that some of the female characters played a much larger role in the series than just standing around shouting at people.

Oh and Dragon Ball is riddled with Bulma's slutty comments. Why'd she offer Goku to see her panties again? For a priceless artifact? All she ever offered anyone in Dragon Ball was a peek at her underwear.

I didn't say that they don't have their reasons for being "bitchy" or "slutty," I'm saying this is a fictional work so they don't have to be written to be that way in the first place. I could make the argument that Roshi is perverted because he's lived a long life by himself and never gets to see anybody, but that doesn't negate the fact that he's willing to stick his face into all of the women's breasts, does it? Do they have an excuse for how they act? Of course. But if it's a creative work, how hard is it to make a female character who is not like that?

Look at other works. Look at Batgirl and how she's so righteous, helpful, and kick-ass. Look at Catwoman who always seems to redeem herself. Look at Wonder Woman. Look at all of the stories where the women are portrayed in such a positive light. You can't really compare that to the way Dragon Ball portrays women. Am I sexist because I want women to do more than that? And Dragon Ball isn't really deep, it's pretty cut and dry; what you see is what you get. Don't look too deep into why they're acting the way they are.

Also doesn't help that by GT, everybody and their mother became a Super Saiyan........ except Pan. Every Saiyan character became a Super Saiyan, two as early as age seven and eight. But not Pan, nope. Pan's big contributions were getting in trouble. It's cute in the beginning, but it became a trend. Why couldn't she become a Super Saiyan? Why couldn't she defeat someone, anyone? Did she have some heroic moments? Sure, but nothing really huge. That goes for any female in Dragon Ball. Save for No. 18, none of them really defeated anybody despite it being very easy to write them in a way that they would, especially fighters such as Videl. Sure, have a female character who fights, but have her get annihilated by some pansy. Good going.

But yeah, I'm the bad guy.

Several women characters are like in Dragon Ball for the same reason Roshi is such a perv... Because it's a fun action manga aimed at young boys that isn't really interested in being remotely serious about the portrayal of its characters. All the examples you stated are actually interested in being more serious about the portrayal of their characters than DB.

I don't know if you are "the bad guy" but it does seem you have trouble understanding this. Over-analyzing something doesn't give us the right perspective.

[TheGreatness25]

I know it's a non-serious manga. We were asked about the portrayal of women, so I talked about the portrayal of women.

[rereboy]

I know it's a non-serious manga. We were asked about the portrayal of women, so I talked about the portrayal of women.

Yes, but a fair comment about it can't forget what the manga is and what is its purpose. If we look at it just from a perspective that was never meant to be used regarding Dragon Ball, like a perspective that is too serious, it simply doesn't work.

[Hero]

I like the women in this series. I love how we've never had a generic, overly jovial girly gi--

*Stares at Videl 2.0*

*Hurls keyboard*

Oh my Kaio, this this this this THIS.

I always loved how the girls in Dragon Ball (sans filler ones like Maron) are not just a generic, bland, cheery housewives. Chi Chi, a character who's main life goal was to become a house wife, was still interesting and a good foil to Goku (much like how Bulma was to Goku in the Pilaf Arc). Videl went from a tough, independent, Great Saiyaman II, interesting girl to..... being okay with being Gohan's house servant

I'm probably being too harsh on her, but Videl is not a Chi Chi who would be okay with just being a housewife.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I like the women in this series. I love how we've never had a generic, overly jovial girly gi--

*Stares at Videl 2.0*

*Hurls keyboard*

Oh my Kaio, this this this this THIS.

I always loved how the girls in Dragon Ball (sans filler ones like
Maron) are not just a generic, bland, cheery housewives. Chi Chi, a character who's main life goal was to become a house wife, was still interesting and a good foil to Goku (much like how Bulma was to Goku in the Pilaf Arc). Videl went from a tough, independent, Great Saiyaman II, interesting girl to..... being okay with being Gohan's house servant

I'm probably being too harsh on her, but Videl is not a Chi Chi who would be okay with just being a housewife.

You do realise that people develop, right? Things happen, people change. She met Gohan and fell in love and thus changed as person. I don't see what is wrong with that. Who'd have thought at the start of the Saiyan saga that Vegeta would eventually have a family and with Bulma no less?

[Hero]

I like the women in this series. I love how we've never had a generic, overly jovial girly gi--

*Stares at Videl 2.0*

*Hurls keyboard*

Oh my Kaio, this this this this THIS.

I always loved how the girls in Dragon Ball (sans filler ones like
Maron) are not just a generic, bland, cheery housewives. Chi Chi, a character who's main life goal was to become a house wife, was still interesting and a good foil to Goku (much like how Bulma was to Goku in the Pilaf Arc). Videl went from a tough, independent, Great Saiyaman II, interesting girl to..... being okay with being Gohan's house servant

I'm probably being too harsh on her, but Videl is not a Chi Chi who would be okay with just being a housewife.

You do realise that people develop, right? Things happen, people change. She met Gohan and fell in love and thus changed as person. I don't see what is wrong with that. Who'd have thought at the start of the Saiyan saga that Vegeta would eventually have a family and with Bulma no less?

Agreed that people change, as character should. What I disagree with, though, is with characters changing so suddenly with no explanation whatsoever. Especially when those characters are shown to be stubborn to begin with. Videl changed tremendously from the start of the Buu Saga to its end and the Wrath of the Dragon, but she was still Videl through and through (example: crime fighting went from a thing she did alone and with inspiration from her father to essentially another date with Gohan).

[nickzambuto]

I hate the way Toriyama portrays men. For gods sake the main character of the story is a complete buffoon who only gets things done through constant luck and plot device, and he's also a self-centered jerk who only cares about growing stronger. Yeah, talk about sexist. A man who's only worth is his strength. What is this the stone age?

Don't even get me started on Vegeta, the world's hugest jerk and a completely unredeemable evil sadist. Even when he becomes "good" he's still an arrogant jerk alpha-male, real stereotypical there Toriyama, thanks. [/sarcasm]

Gohan is the exact opposite, just some lazy, worthless slacker more interested in books than the responsibility of SAVING THE WORLD. And worse yet, all three of them are just whipping boys to their women! Why can't they ever stand up for themselves???

Ugh, this just makes me so... so... wait what were we talking about again?

Oh right, Dragon Ball is a totally not-serious parody series with wacky and crazy characters, none of whom are even close to perfect or ideal role models. Everybody's traits are exaggerated to the extreme for comedy, but the whole cast still manages to be extremely likable and beloved. There is nothing wrong with Toriyama's portrayal of women, in the context of how he portrays men, animals, and aliens. Yes woman can be sexualized for humor, but men are often humiliated in the same scene, AKA Master Roshi, Goku, and Krillin dressing up in lingerie to try and make Lunch do the same. And it's not like the action power porn with bulging biceps and a rule against wearing shirts in combat is any different from a shot of Bulma's panties once in awhile.

As insane as the woman in Dragon Ball are, I do think Toriyama at least treats them with respect as human beings. Never do any of them reach the levels of humiliation that a Yamcha or a Piccolo suffer. The former was never allowed to win a single fight in the whole story, he was used as a jobber to all the new tough enemies and had to suffer constant humiliation and pain, to the point where his will crumbled and he gave up martial arts completely, despite being so utterly dedicated to it beforehand. Piccolo meanwhile, great Namekian warrior, former god of Earth and great wise respectable man with plenty of uses outside combat, gets relegated to a baby sitter just because he isn't strong.