Which is "Stronger"? SSG or SSGSS?

[jamiljamtheman]

Honestly I was under the impression that SSGSS was "stronger" because it combined all the god power from SSG and added Super Saiyan to it. However, my friend was under the impression that SSG is stronger because SSGSS didn't contain the full god power from it.
So, does anyone know which one actually packs the harder punch? I guess Super might explain it more, but for now I honestly don't remember Goku's exact explanation in the movie (and won't get the home video for a while) so I apologized if I'm forgetting something crucial. Again, I thought it was pretty much god power + Super Saiyan and therefore thought it was stronger.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

I was always under the impression that SSJGSS was Goku and Vegeta tapping into the SSJG power they absorbed into themselves while in that form. Since they didn't get all of it, I figure the blue form is a bit weaker. More so that it's SSJ with some god energy added, rather than SSJG with super saiyan added

[Bullza]

SSGSS should be stronger for the reason you gave. It was the result of going Super Saiyan after having acquired the power of a Super Saiyan God. Though Super Saiyan is so weak in comparison you wouldn't think it'd be such a big difference as it appeared to be in the movie.

Logically this form should be stronger. It'd be kind of weird to have a sequel which introduced a new form which was then intended to be inferior to the form from the previous movie.

One SSJG was 60% is strong as Beerus and two SSGSS are about equal to Beerus at 100% which also tells me it's superior.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

I don't think that just because something comes later, it has to be stronger. Even in a battle anime. Dabra came after Cell, but was weaker.

[Xeztin]

For me it is very confusing at this point, in Super, Goku lost the SSG appearance but according to Beeru's he asorbed SSG power and the only thing he lost was the SSG look.
Goku was in his Super Saiyan state when Beeru's said that, and I think the Blue hair comes from after effect's of absorbing the ki, and over time takes the blue color, meaning SSG=SSGSS.

The thing that confuses me is that I've read a lot of people saying that Saiyan beyond god is equal to SSG, but Goku is in his Super Saiyan State when Beeru's say's his power is the same but he lost the look of SSG.

Could it be that Saiyan beyond God is weaker than SSG/SSGSS
Saiyan beyond God= Half power of SSG
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan = SSG

Everyone in the ritual is a SSJ, and he even transforms into SSG while in SSJ.
after SSG's time limit runs out he is a normal SSJ again, shouldn't he had been a SSGSS by then if he absorbed the ki and been even stronger?
also him being a SSJ going into SSG also pushes the idea that SSJ2 and SSJ3 are just level's of SSJ1 and are not separate transformations because he prob would have went SSJ3 during the God ritual if they were separate. which could mean if trained right one could surpass SSJ3 in their SSJ1 form.
I think Vegeta's rage outburst sort of confirms that in a way if he surpassed Goku at one point.
I have no idea i'm confusing myself as I type this.

[Froggy]

ill answer you with a question.

what is stronger, goku base form or goku ssj form ?
what is stronger, goku ssg form or ssgss form ?

i think the answer is pretty obvious.

[Kuririn Fan]

SSGSS is stronger, c'mon now...

[Sandubadear]

The multiplier for SSGSS must be really small, like 1.5x.

SSG Goku is 60% of Beerus, and SSJ Goku didn't lose much power, so say either 45 or 50%.

After about a year of training with Whis, Goku in base is probably only slightly stronger than before, and turning SSGSS is still not enough to defeat Beerus, and if he teamed up with Vegeta he might defeat Beerus.

Beerus - 10
SSG Goku - 6
SSJ Goku (BoG) - 4.5 to 5
SbG Goku - 5 to 5.5
SSGSS Goku - 7.5 to 8.25

If the multiplier for SSGSS were higher, then SbG Goku would be weaker than his base (post-God) in BoG, and that wouldn't make sense.

[oreos-splash]

ssgss is way stronger in my book.

[Blackstripe]

If the multiplier for SSGSS were higher, then SbG Goku would be weaker than his base (post-God) in BoG, and that wouldn't make sense.

It makes some sense, actually.

Gokuu clearly hadn't fully lost the SSG transformation in BoG, since he turned back into one in order to stop Beerus' final attack. After that, one could imagine that he finally lost the majority (though by no means all) of the power of SSG, since he could no longer use it after that point.

SSGSS is him learning to access that power again.

Many place it at a 2x increase. I go a bit further and place it at a 5x.

Thus:

Beerus - 10
SSG - 6
Base SSG - 4
SSG w/SSJ - 5
Saiyan Beyond God - 1.5
SSGSS - 7.5

It needs to be at least a 2x increase, though, because Gokuu acted like the transformation was a huge deal.

[oreos-splash]

the way I see it, Goku in RoF mastered SSG, that's why doesn't transform. He doesn't need to look different to use the power of Godly ki-- even ssg looked like his base form. So when he becomes a Super Saiyan god ss, that allows his body to absorb even more godly ki from whatever realm it came from. This seems to me that Godly ki doesn't come from the user, but from some etheral source

[Sandubadear]

-stuff-

I just can't accept the fact that Goku trains with Whis and then becomes weaker.

[ekrolo2]

Shonen logic dictates that the newest form is always the strongest thus Blooper Saiyan wins.

[Blackstripe]

-stuff-

I just can't accept the fact that Goku trains with Whis and then becomes weaker.

...? I think you're confused. He doesn't become weaker.

I have his power in SSGSS at 7.5 compared to 6 when he was SSG in Battle of Gods.

I'm saying he was weaker in Beyond God form than in his "base" form during his fight with Beerus, because he was still technically a Super Saiyan God then (he could still access the form under duress). But that's okay, because he now has access to a form that puts him solidly above even full-blown SSG.

His training with Whis was what allowed him to access this, and yes, it made him stronger. When he started that training he was probably only 1.2 and couldn't go SSGSS. When he finished in RoF, he was at 1.5 and could reach 7.5 with SSGSS.

[Kaboom]

As far as I know, based on how Bluper Saiyan was portrayed in the movie, there's no real difference between the power of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Goku described it as "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God." Which would suggest that it's packing the same power as the red-haired form, only Goku is using Super Saiyan to channel it for some reason. Heck, maybe he doesn't even NEED to do that, and could push himself to use all his god-power in his "base" form (maybe re-gaining the red hair in the process), but doing it with Super Saiyan is easier or more energy-efficient or something.

If Goku's maximum power has increased between Battle of Gods and Resurrection F, it's almost certainly only because of his training with Vegeta under Whis.

[Sandubadear]

-stuff-

I just can't accept the fact that Goku trains with Whis and then becomes weaker.

I'm saying he was weaker in Beyond God form than in his "base" form during his fight with Beerus, because he was still technically a Super Saiyan God then (he could still access the form under duress).

I understand this, but still can't accept. Don't mind me too much.

[dbgtFO]

As far as I know, based on how Bluper Saiyan was portrayed in the movie, there's no real difference between the power of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Goku described it as "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God." Which would suggest that it's packing the same power as the red-haired form, only Goku is using Super Saiyan to channel it for some reason. Heck, maybe he doesn't even NEED to do that, and could push himself to use all his god-power in his "base" form (maybe re-gaining the red hair in the process), but doing it with Super Saiyan is easier or more energy-efficient or something.

If Goku's maximum power has increased between Battle of Gods and Resurrection F, it's almost certainly only because of his training with Vegeta under Whis.

Best answer in this thread.

As I have posted a lot of times before, I do feel as if Toriyama's intention is exactly this. Originally we weren't supposed to have Blue Super Saiyan, so Goku's Gold Super Saiyan would just be as strong as SSGod, but then a new movie was commisioned and Toriyama had to keep things fresh, possibly due to him deciding on bringing Freeza back and making it seem a bit too familar, if it'd just be a repeat of Super Saiyan Goku vs Final Form Freeza.
The statement Goku gives is all we have to go on, when it comes to determining Toriyama's thoughs on Blue Super Saiyan's relation to SSGod, which as shown above just has Goku claiming he has the power of a SSGod, not that he actually surpasses God's power, which sounds exactly like what he did in BoG, when he first dropped out of God form and this new form is supposed to be different, so the same explanation can't apply?

Either my interpretation is really off and that statement is somehow supposed to say he really is stronger than SSGod, justifying why all the statements not from Toriyama say that Blue SS is stronger than SSG, or my interpretation is correct and the promotional material just went with "new form is stronger than old form" logic, rather than actually following the author's intent.
IIRC Dokkan Battle has Whis and Goku talk a bit about this(following the logic SSG < Blue SS) and Goku rewords his line from RoF, by stating that he will reach the Super Saiyan, of a Saiyan, that has the power of a Super Saiyan God.
This changes things a bit, making it sound like Blue Super Saiyan is what happens, when a Saiyan that already has the power of a SSG, goes Super Saiyan, thus justifying the name SSGSS, ie. a Super Saiyan God going Super Saiyan, as opposed to the statement supplied by Toriyama, where Goku is "a Super Saiyan, who is a Saiyan, that has the power of a Super Saiyan God."
It annoys me a bit, but it's also because Toriyama might not be as clear with his explanations and thus in-universe info might turn out differently than originally intended.

[Pocket-God]

IMO SSGSS is as strong as SSG, I'm pretty sure that the SSGSS transformation is just going SSG without the ritual.

[Blackstripe]

IMO SSGSS is as strong as SSG, I'm pretty sure that the SSGSS transformation is just going SSG without the ritual.

Basically. Any power increase would have been from Gokuu growing stronger, rather than SSGSS being inherently stronger.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

As far as I know, based on how Bluper Saiyan was portrayed in the movie, there's no real difference between the power of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Goku described it as "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God." Which would suggest that it's packing the same power as the red-haired form, only Goku is using Super Saiyan to channel it for some reason. Heck, maybe he doesn't even NEED to do that, and could push himself to use all his god-power in his "base" form (maybe re-gaining the red hair in the process), but doing it with Super Saiyan is easier or more energy-efficient or something.

If Goku's maximum power has increased between Battle of Gods and Resurrection F, it's almost certainly only because of his training with Vegeta under Whis.

Best answer in this thread.

As I have posted a lot of times before, I do feel as if Toriyama's intention is exactly this. Originally we weren't supposed to have Blue Super Saiyan, so Goku's Gold Super Saiyan would just be as strong as SSGod, but then a new movie was commisioned and Toriyama had to keep things fresh, possibly due to him deciding on bringing Freeza back and making it seem a bit too familar, if it'd just be a repeat of Super Saiyan Goku vs Final Form Freeza.
The statement Goku gives is all we have to go on, when it comes to determining Toriyama's thoughs on Blue Super Saiyan's relation to SSGod, which as shown above just has Goku claiming he has the power of a SSGod, not that he actually surpasses God's power, which sounds exactly like what he did in BoG, when he first dropped out of God form and this new form is supposed to be different, so the same explanation can't apply?

Either my interpretation is really off and that statement is somehow supposed to say he really is stronger than SSGod, justifying why all the statements not from Toriyama say that Blue SS is stronger than SSG, or my interpretation is correct and the promotional material just went with "new form is stronger than old form" logic, rather than actually following the author's intent.
IIRC Dokkan Battle has Whis and Goku talk a bit about this(following the logic SSG < Blue SS) and Goku rewords his line from RoF, by stating that he will reach the Super Saiyan, of a Saiyan, that has the power of a Super Saiyan God.
This changes things a bit, making it sound like Blue Super Saiyan is what happens, when a Saiyan that already has the power of a SSG, goes Super Saiyan, thus justifying the name SSGSS, ie. a Super Saiyan God going Super Saiyan, as opposed to the statement supplied by Toriyama, where Goku is "a Super Saiyan, who is a Saiyan, that has the power of a Super Saiyan God."
It annoys me a bit, but it's also because Toriyama might not be as clear with his explanations and thus in-universe info might turn out differently than originally intended.

The chapter 5 of the Super manga confirms that Super Saiyan Blue is a form beyond Super Saiyan God, meaning that it's the strongest form.