Is Vegeta's "higher class" still relevant?

[soduh2]

Or is there little difference between him and Goku at this point?

Vegeta had a higher natural power level as well as the ability to communicate in his Oozaruu form. After the Android saga (or maybe the Namek saga) does Vegeta's "higher class" grant him any physical benefits? Or is it just social?

[nickzambuto]

Vegeta had a much higher natural potential than Goku, but since they've both hit and broken through walls multiple times now, neither is at any automatic advantage.

[Darkprince410]

Toriyama explained that class is based almost exclusively on battle power, and one's class can change if their strength changes past whatever arbitrary threshold the classes are defined by.

So Vegeta's higher class back then was literally just due to him having been the strongest Saiya-jin at the time, being one of the only two elites that existed at the time.

[B]

Vegeta's character defining "No. 1!!" speech in the Buu arc says no.

[Polyphase Avatron]

It was never relevant.

[dbzfan7]

If you go by the recent influx of stuff, Goku is far more special than Vegeta apparently.

[Saiga]

If you go by the recent influx of stuff, Goku is far more special than Vegeta apparently.

I think this goes back to the Boo arc really:

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight for a while
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…

"Genius" when used in Japanese works seems to be used for those who are naturally special, rather than being about intellectual capacity as it is in the West.

[Lord Beerus]

Vegeta's "higher class" status ended the minute he lost to the Z-Warriors on Earth.

[soduh2]

I'm not quite sure it should be dismissed that easily. While Goku is relatively "more special" than Vegeta, Vegeta has been on Goku's tail and briefly surpassed him with the rage boost. GT (I know it's noncanon) still utilized Vegeta's superior breeding when he had control over his Golden Ape form (without the same struggle Goku had). Is Vegeta's breeding part of the reason he's able to keep up with Goku at all? Or is it just a matter of Vegeta's determination?

[dbzfan7]

If you go by the recent influx of stuff, Goku is far more special than Vegeta apparently.

I think this goes back to the Boo arc really:

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight for a while
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…

"Genius" when used in Japanese works seems to be used for those who are naturally special, rather than being about intellectual capacity as it is in the West.

Goku I always thought simply had the better training methods and knew how to properly train. Vegeta just powers through and tortures himself for the most part. That I think was the reason why even after Vegeta trained harder than Goku in the Cell arc, Goku was still superior. Now that they train together and are with Whis, they're pretty much equal with Goku edging out since his "weakness" doesn't seem as bad as Vegeta's.

[Saiga]

Goku I always thought simply had the better training methods and knew how to properly train. Vegeta just powers through and tortures himself for the most part. That I think was the reason why even after Vegeta trained harder than Goku in the Cell arc, Goku was still superior. Now that they train together and are with Whis, they're pretty much equal with Goku edging out since his "weakness" doesn't seem as bad as Vegeta's.

That doesn't seem to really follow the logic of Vegeta's "no matter what, I can't close the gap". If he trained the same way Goku did, then by your logic that would close the gap.

[soduh2]

Okay, bumping this because I've seen other users refer to Vegeta as a "prodigy". If that's the case, wouldn't it be due to his "higher class"?

Not to mention him surpassing Super Saiyan 3, and possibly reaching "blueper saiyan" without the ritual.

[apex_pretador]

Probably. Here's what separates him from other saiyans:
1. He seems to do good against opponents stronger than him when gap is small, and manhandle slightly weaker opponents.
2. He gains better than goku in training generally.
3. He catches up to god goku in 6 months without ritual.

[DanielSSJ]

In terms of power, it stopped meaning anything after Goku trained in 100Gs. In terms of social benefits, it stopped meaning anything after Nappa was killed.

[buutenks]

Goku I always thought simply had the better training methods and knew how to properly train. Vegeta just powers through and tortures himself for the most part. That I think was the reason why even after Vegeta trained harder than Goku in the Cell arc, Goku was still superior. Now that they train together and are with Whis, they're pretty much equal with Goku edging out since his "weakness" doesn't seem as bad as Vegeta's.

Might not be bad in a fight with vegeta,but it sure is a fatal flaw on a battle field lol.Rof proves this,that energy beam wouldnt have worked on vegeta since he doesnt lower his BP.

So while goku's weakness might not be relevent in a 1vs1 fair fight,in a battlefield its a huge flaw,while vegeta's is only a problem if hes fighting an equal opponent.

Edit:I'm sure the training method makes all the difference.

Cell saga:Goku surpasses vegeta by allot due to his different training method.

Buu saga:Vegeta had to close the gap between him and ssj2 goku by letting babidi take control of him.So obviously goku's training method was superior to vegeta's since he was trained by king kai plus achieved ssj3,though perhaps being dead might have given him an advantage.

ROF:Both get same training means they are both equal.

I'm sure vegeta's natural high BP was relevant in the saiyan saga,but once they broke the saiyan limit and gone beyond any saiyan could even dream of all bets were off and that became irrelevant.

So currently both goku and vegeta have the same power,with vegeta thinking hes stronger cos he's royalty,which is funny lol ^^

[MisterGuyMan]

Given more or less equal training it can be argued Vegeta outperforms Goku. Vegeta has better gains and surpasses Goku in the Android arc despite a massive handicap to start with. He overcomes SS3 Goku as a basic SSJ against Beers. He then catches up to SSG Goku even without the ritual through pure training. Goku's only outgained Vegeta when they both trained in the RoSaT for the Cell games and it could be argued that Gohan's potential allowed Goku to achieve better gains even then.

That being said, I don't think the actual title of his class matters at this point. Goku, had he still been a Saiyan Warrior would have been identified as an Elite easily by now anyway.