Beerus and Whis' creation (all versions)

[Professor Gohan]

Who do you think created them? (Beerus, Whis, Champa, Vados, etc)?

So we don't get confused, let's just discuss Universe 7.

Concerning hierarchy - under Beerus and Whis, (yet fulfill balanced roles) the Kaioshin are the Gods of Creation, who were born as Shin-jin before taking roles as gods, and serving the universe.

On Planet Kaishin (not the Kaioshin realm or planet), the World Tree exists. Fruit falls from the divine tree, and Shin-jin are born, who thus assume the positions as Kaio and Kaioshin, etc.

So we know where the Kaioshin came from, thanks to a guidebook entry.

But where does the God of Destruction and his attendant come from? Remember: G.O.Ds, in a sense, are on equal terms with the Kaioshin, concerning hierarchy, (but not really).

Possibilities:

1. Beerus and Whis are from Planet Kaishin as well, (which would make Planet Kaishin and the World Tree the ultimate divinities of the entire Universe 7). This one shouldn't work as much because we now know that Beerus and Champa are twin brothers, due to the twin universe concept.

2. Beerus and Whis are birthed from the universe (in other words, they are born in a similar fashion as the Big Bang theory or just magically appeared from/as the everlasting).

3. God of Destruction and its attendant are just different concepts of hierarchy, than what was originally given, yet it still correlates and fits with the original concept, which the author himself (lazily) made happen.

Thoughts? I want to know how you think Beerus and Whis came into existence.

[DragonBallLove]

Hakaishin is somewhat of a post, as Whis offered it to Goku after's Beerus passing away in BoG.

[Pantalones]

I could see Whis possibly having a similar origin to the Kaioshin (he does at least look similar -- oddly-colored skin, pale hair, otherwise humanlike) or even just kind of spontaneously generating somehow, but considering that he said that Goku could possibly be the next God of Destruction after Beerus dies I assume the Gods of Destruction are chosen just like the planetary gods (like Kami/Dende.) Since there's no hierarchy for the destruction side of things like there is on the creation side as far as we've seen, that could kinda make sense -- though technically equal to the Kaioshin in rank, they're also technically the lowest-ranking destruction gods (because they're the only ones XD) so they could be chosen by the same method as the lowest-ranking creation gods.

Beerus and Champa being twin brothers would also seem to suggest they were normal beings once or at least came about in a very different way from the higher creation gods, since the Kaio/Kaioshin don't really seem to consider themselves to be related despite all coming from the same tree.

[fadeddreams5]

Arceus created them.

[Cipher]

Never forget.

[Lord Beerus]

Who do you think created them? (Beerus, Whis, Champa, Vados, etc)?

A pencil and a piece of paper.

[Blade]

To quote one of my favourite TV shows, 'Blackadder': 'There's always a Blackadder, and there's always a Baldrick.'

My current theory is that there's some weird, natural order of things, whereby the 12 Gods of Destruction and their attendants are simply born as litters of brothers and sisters, and assigned to a universe each. Apart from the recent revelation that Champa and Beerus are siblings, just as Whis and Vados are, I think back to Whis' explanation of himself when asked by Vegeta of: 'How to put this? Hm. Well, I guess you could say that I'm just the life-form called Whis.'

I think that there's a strange natural order of things, whereby these deities exist simply because they do. I think there's a strange sort of symbiosis, whereby each litter of destruction Gods has also a naturally assigned attendant, to hone their powers and keep them in line - as Whis does for Beerus.

Whilst the idea of 'God of Destruction' being an appointed title has been hinted at more than once, I think it's probably a rare thing to happen. Perhaps in the unlikely event that Beerus should die, it would be Whis' job to appoint and train a successor, supposing that one isn't generated naturally.

I also suspect that the information about the Kaioshin in the Daizenshuu may be slightly redundant now. That information also references the Makaioshin, the apparent race who counter-balanced the existence of the Kaioshin - but that's something which just hasn't been explored since or outright supplanted in Toriyama's universe post-Battle of Gods.

[Khin]

I think are a whole family created by Tori-bot,With Whis' father and mother serving the Hakaishin of Universe 1 and 12,Whis and Vados are at Universe 7 and 6.And about Beerus,Didnt Whis ask Goku to be the nest Hakaishin if Beerus' kicks the bucket? I dont think they are naturaly born as Gods like Whis and the Kaioshins,But this makes me wonder how on earth did Champa end up being in Universe 6 if he is Beerus' brother whos at Universe 7.

[Pantalones]

That information also references the Makaioshin, the apparent race who counter-balanced the existence of the Kaioshin - but that's something which just hasn't been explored since or outright supplanted in Toriyama's universe post-Battle of Gods.

Eh? Makaio/Makaioshin weren't really a counterbalance to the Kaioshin (at least not in a creation/destruction way like the post-Battle of Gods material describes the Gods of Destruction being)... they were just the rare few evil Shinjin who were sent to the Demon Realm rather than being in the running for Kaio/Kaioshin positions like the good members of their species would be.

Also, they're in charge of the Demon Realm (at least as far as god hierarchy goes -- Dabura was king there among mortal demons and apparently indisputably the strongest in the entire realm, which fits well with the claim that the current Kaioshin group is stronger than the current Maikaioshin group -- if they're weaker than the East Kaioshin and old Kaioshin, then yeah, they wouldn't measure up too well to Dabura either), while both Kaioshin and Gods of Destruction seem to focus more on the mortal universe (as far as creating/destroying worlds goes; they both seem to travel freely into the afterlife for various reasons too, but their main "job duties" are pretty much all in the mortal universe.)

I also don't remember any recent info that implied the Maikaio/Makaioshin weren't still out there, unless you're taking Demigra from Xenoverse being a "Demon God" as meaning the Makaioshin's "Gods of the Demon Realm" thing has been overwritten or something. The only inconsistent Kaioshin info is that weird comment about there being three Kaioshin but one's in hibernation or something along those lines (was that even a correct translation? and do we know if that means "this is the normal Kaioshin setup, only three at a time with one hibernating" or if it means "there are two active Kaioshin now -- Kibito-Kaioshin and the old Kaioshin -- plus an unknown third one that's still hibernating?"), and that only conflicts with the "there's four Kaioshins -- north/west/south/east -- plus Dai Kaioshin" information from the original manga, not the whole Kaioshins-come-from-the-rare-golden-fruit-of-the-world-tree thing.

[Xeztin]

In my opinion God of Destruction is just a job, as someone said above it was offered to Goku. There could be someone in charge even above Whis, that give's Whis/Vados jobs.
I think Beerus is just a normal race who ascended to God hood and got offered the God of Destruction title, similar to how Goku rose to God hood with SSG and was offered the job after Beerus died, making "God hood" or "God Forms" necessary for the job.

As far as Whis goes, his kind could be like the Kais, he may come from the same tree, or there may be an opposite tree on the other side of the planet that grows his kind.
Sort of like the "tree of life" mythos, I believe part of it was on earth while the earth half went to the underworld, though I could be completely wrong.