Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
LightBing wrote:He's referring to that specific version of himself, the one with 31 years old. That version was clearly weaker than Mutaito.
Even then, the statement makes no sense if 22nd TB Roshi is stronger than Young Roshi. He's emphasizing how strong Piccolo Daimao is.
Kame-sennin: “Despite the cute name, [Piccolo] was an outrageously fearsome person…His strength was extremely overwhelming…[ ] He was an opponent we were utterly unable to oppose; not only a weaker version of myself or Tsuru-sennin, but even our master, Mutaito.”
Yeah, it's like Buu arc Goku saying, "Androids 17 and 18 were stronger than anyone we had, me, Piccolo...even Vegeta was no match!"
The "even" still works because Vegeta was the strongest fighter at the time, and the fact that Goku is now vastly stronger than any of them is irrelevant to it. Right?
"Actually I didn’t know what Bulma’s real hair color was" --Toriyama
Captain Space wrote:Yeah, it's like Buu arc Goku saying, "Androids 17 and 18 were stronger than anyone we had, me, Piccolo...even Vegeta was no match!"
The "even" still works because Vegeta was the strongest fighter at the time, and the fact that Goku is now vastly stronger than any of them is irrelevant to it. Right?
To me it's different because Android #17 or #18 are fodder in the Boo arc. Piccolo Daimao on the other hand is a huge threat at the moment, not someone who use to be a huge threat. That's why I think it'd make more sense to make a comparison with relevant powers instead of characters who someone like Goku or Roshi or Tenshinhan could beat at the moment.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:To me it's different because Android #17 or #18 are fodder in the Boo arc. Piccolo Daimao on the other hand is a huge threat at the moment, not someone who use to be a huge threat. That's why I think it'd make more sense to make a comparison with relevant powers instead of characters who someone like Goku or Roshi or Tenshinhan could beat at the moment.
I see your point, so how about this:
Vegeta: "Beerus was incredible; my father and I, two of the strongest saiyans alive, were powerless before him. Even Freeza feared him!"
That statement would make total sense, right?
(Vegeta admittedly doesn't know Freeza even knew who Beerus was but that's not the point.)
"Actually I didn’t know what Bulma’s real hair color was" --Toriyama
Captain Space wrote:I see your point, so how about this:
Vegeta: "Beerus was incredible; my father and I, two of the strongest saiyans alive, were powerless before him. Even Freeza feared him!"
That statement would make total sense, right?
(Vegeta admittedly doesn't know Freeza even knew who Beerus was but that's not the point.)
While that makes sense, from a storytelling perspective I just don't find it logical to use irrelevant powers for such a comparison because it doesn't do it's job of establishing just how powerful the new villain is. If Toriyama's intent is to show how amazing this Piccolo Daimao is, it'd make sense to use relevant powers as opposed to irrelevant powers when making a comparison, do you agree?
Captain Space wrote:I see your point, so how about this:
Vegeta: "Beerus was incredible; my father and I, two of the strongest saiyans alive, were powerless before him. Even Freeza feared him!"
That statement would make total sense, right?
(Vegeta admittedly doesn't know Freeza even knew who Beerus was but that's not the point.)
While that makes sense, from a storytelling perspective I just don't find it logical to use irrelevant powers for such a comparison because it doesn't do it's job of establishing just how powerful the new villain is. If Toriyama's intent is to show how amazing this Piccolo Daimao is, it'd make sense to use relevant powers as opposed to irrelevant powers when making a comparison, do you agree?
That's just my opinion, at least.
The threat level of Piccolo Daimao is made when Master Roshi tells them that they have no chance of winning, even when Yamcha(?) suggests that they all gang up on him. This is immediately after the 22nd TB, where he complimented the new generation about how strong they were; where we saw how far the characters had gotten.
In the quote, Master Roshi is just telling the story, giving the background of the villain. His perspective is, like I said before, someone thinking back and telling exactly how things happened.
I could see it either way, to be honest. It could lose some impact if it's not bigging up the villain quite so much, but it's also just Roshi remembering the terror he and the world went through back then.
"Actually I didn’t know what Bulma’s real hair color was" --Toriyama
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
- Base Goku x Kaioshin
- Kaioshin x Pui Pui
- Piccolo (Boo Arc) x Kaioshin
- Piccolo x Pui Pui
- Piccolo x Yakon
- SSJ Gohan (Boo Arc) x Kaioshin
- Base Goku ( DBS ) wins easily
- Kaioshin one shots
- Piccolo win with high difficulty
- Piccolo stomps
- Piccolo stomps
- Gohan wins with high difficulty
- Base Goku x Kaioshin
- Kaioshin x Pui Pui
- Piccolo (Boo Arc) x Kaioshin
- Piccolo x Pui Pui
- Piccolo x Yakon
- SSJ Gohan (Boo Arc) x Kaioshin
-Kaioshin*
-Kaioshin*
-Kaioshin (Piccolo sort of told us how this one would go...)
-Piccolo*
-Piccolo*
-Gohan (really don't see Kaioshin doing at all okay against Dabura, or indeed pulling the Z-Sword)
(*Given Super's confirmation of Beerus' "ya can't take Freeza in base" line.)
Battousai wrote:
- Base Goku ( DBS ) wins easily
DBS has the clearest version of the Freeza > Base saiyans statement, and Kaioshin could one-shot Freeza, so not sure what your logic is here.
"Actually I didn’t know what Bulma’s real hair color was" --Toriyama
Hellspawn28 wrote:SSj2 GT Vegeta vs. Metallic Rildo on Planet M2
Who wins?
Vegeta stomps, so long as it's Baby arc Vegeta and not Beginning of GT Vegeta. I don't think he'd be that far off from Baby arc SS2 Goku, who could easily defeat this Rild in just Super Saiyan 1.
Hellspawn28 wrote:SSj2 GT Vegeta vs. Metallic Rildo on Planet M2
Who wins?
Vegeta stomps, so long as it's Baby arc Vegeta and not Beginning of GT Vegeta. I don't think he'd be that far off from Baby arc SS2 Goku, who could easily defeat this Rild in just Super Saiyan 1.
Does beginning-of-GT Vegeta actually have anything showing him to be significantly weaker than he was in the Baby arc or does he just not show his power until then?
"Actually I didn’t know what Bulma’s real hair color was" --Toriyama
Hellspawn28 wrote:SSj2 GT Vegeta vs. Metallic Rildo on Planet M2
Who wins?
Vegeta stomps, so long as it's Baby arc Vegeta and not beginning of GT Vegeta. I don't think he'd be that far off from Baby arc SS2 Goku, who could easily defeat this Rild in just Super Saiyan 1.
Does beginning-of-GT Vegeta actually have anything showing him to be significantly weaker than he was in the Baby arc or does he just not show his power until then?
Unless you think Vegeta was massively stronger than Goku at the beginning of GT, then he'd have to have powered up in the one year Goku, Trunks, and Pan went into space.
Hellspawn28 wrote:I forgot to mention it's Vegeta before his body gets taken over by Bebi.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Unless you think Vegeta was massively stronger than Goku at the beginning of GT, then he'd have to have powered up in the one year Goku, Trunks, and Pan went into space.
Oh right, that thing where Goku's power mysteriously zooms up halfway through the first arc.
"Actually I didn’t know what Bulma’s real hair color was" --Toriyama
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Unless you think Vegeta was massively stronger than Goku at the beginning of GT, then he'd have to have powered up in the one year Goku, Trunks, and Pan went into space.
Oh right, that thing where Goku's power mysteriously zooms up halfway through the first arc.
Presumably from fighting and I guess one could argue Goku got a hax zenkai from Lood. The same thing happens in DBM4, so it's not exactly a new concept for TOEI.
I s'pose it's not unreasonable to think that Toei kept the zenkai concept a lot longer than Toriyama did (after Namek the only person who was able to get a big enough zenkai boost to even be mentioned at all was Cell and that was due to him essentially using regeneration to hax the zenkai system; by the time you get someone as strong as mystic Gohan, Buu even specifically points out his power didn't increase at all from being healed).
"Actually I didn’t know what Bulma’s real hair color was" --Toriyama
