Stupidest action by a character?

[Doctor.]

It's not dumb because of that. It's dumb because Goku somehow thought it was a good idea to lower his power in front of Freeza.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It's not dumb because of that. It's dumb because Goku somehow thought it was a good idea to lower his power in front of Freeza.

He didn't lower his power, his ki wasn't protecting his body because he had left his guard down.

[Doctor.]

It's not dumb because of that. It's dumb because Goku somehow thought it was a good idea to lower his power in front of Freeza.

He didn't lower his power, his ki wasn't protecting his body because he had left his guard down.

If his Ki wasn't protecting his body, then he lowered his power. If he has a "ki shield" up at all time, and lowers it in that occasion, then he's being an idiot.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If his Ki wasn't protecting his body, then he lowered his power.

No, he had just lowered his defenses.

If he has a "ki shield" up at all time, and lowers it in that occasion, then he's being an idiot.

That's the whole point of the scene, that Goku was an idiot for letting his guard down after being too confident.

[Doctor.]

I know, that's why I said that Goku's decisions was the stupidest in the series, lol.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I know, that's why I said that Goku's decisions was the stupidest in the series, lol.

I didn't argue about that, I argue about the part where you said that Goku lowered his battle power, which actually wasn't the case.

[TKB21]

All decisions made by Goku during the Buu arch, but more in more in particular, sparring with Fat Buu & Kid Buu instead of going for the kill.

[Cetra]

If his Ki wasn't protecting his body, then he lowered his power.

No, he had just lowered his defenses.

If he has a "ki shield" up at all time, and lowers it in that occasion, then he's being an idiot.

That's the whole point of the scene, that Goku was an idiot for letting his guard down after being too confident.

The Whis scene is used to justify this non-sensical garbage but it still makes no sense Goku does not have any natural resilience and yes, even that one can be trained to be stronger (remember when Gohan was punched in Filler but still just was knocked back and that guy hurt his hand because Gohan's face was hard as hell? yes, training, and that toughness also can defend you) and that Goku is "so arrogant" that he does not use ANY of his senses, which was part of his training when he was FIFTEEN years old. You are so relaxed that you are completely vulnerable to something like that? Sure. Then I guess Freeza had so much focus and power and guard when Namek exploded even though he was half the man he was before AND was attacked by Goku - that he still was able to "be on guard" for the explosion (that probably was way stronger than the ring) and it was not just because he was tough and resilient in general? Sure.

You can do a few scenes with fitting situations. That is not one of them. Even more ridiculous considering Sorbet was not even behind Goku (not that it would have mattered) but before him or at the side or something like that.

You just don't like the idea, there is no contradiction here, not even by logic. The fact that Freeza survived the explosion of Namek means that he was probably still conscious when that happened.

Yes, there is a contradiction, even by logic. Whether you like it or not, it will not change anything. The entire fact that your explanations are based on assumptions of yours to defend a point that was definitely shown illogical with other scenes shows that. Basically you have done the same thing everyone does: Read a post or listened to something, ignored the stuff (like natural resilience, the natural logic that Goku though being overconfident never was this overconfident and therefore should not be here, et cetera) and then continued to defend the opposite with selective decision to get the argument needed. And that does really not help the argument at all. And no, just because a scene that shows before "oh, Goku you tend to get so overconfident" tries to be an excuse for it does not make it a fact that suddenly ignored the rest. Do please not claim I would dislike something that can definitely be explained and already was explained as I am the one here not being selective but the one neurotically taking everything necessary into account. Everything I said had a base. The assumption that half-dead Freeza is more conscious of his surroundings than Goku and therefore can guard himself better (completely ignoring the fact that in those cases there is the natural resilience for characters as well) is based on what? Nothing.

[dbzfan7]

The bigger thing is that at least with Sorbet's little thing, I suppose potentially the others could be of more help possibly. If a mere ray gun can nearly kill Goku at his most powerful, than perhaps Dodonpa from out of nowhere can kill a bad person who is too focused with someone else. Maybe a Makankosappo too. But I doubt that since Dragon Ball is meant to entertain, and a villain dying from something like that would be anti-climatic.

[Kamiccolo9]

The bigger thing is that at least with Sorbet's little thing, I suppose potentially the others could be of more help possibly. If a mere ray gun can nearly kill Goku at his most powerful, than perhaps Dodonpa from out of nowhere can kill a bad person who is too focused with someone else. Maybe a Makankosappo too. But I doubt that since Dragon Ball is meant to entertain, and a villain dying from something like that would be anti-climatic.

Movie 5 did it with Piccolo killing Salza. I can't think of another example, though.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The bigger thing is that at least with Sorbet's little thing, I suppose potentially the others could be of more help possibly. If a mere ray gun can nearly kill Goku at his most powerful, than perhaps Dodonpa from out of nowhere can kill a bad person who is too focused with someone else. Maybe a Makankosappo too. But I doubt that since Dragon Ball is meant to entertain, and a villain dying from something like that would be anti-climatic.

I'd still like to see Piccolo or Chaotzu take out a villain at this point though.

[dbzfan7]

The bigger thing is that at least with Sorbet's little thing, I suppose potentially the others could be of more help possibly. If a mere ray gun can nearly kill Goku at his most powerful, than perhaps Dodonpa from out of nowhere can kill a bad person who is too focused with someone else. Maybe a Makankosappo too. But I doubt that since Dragon Ball is meant to entertain, and a villain dying from something like that would be anti-climatic.

Movie 5 did it with Piccolo killing Salza. I can't think of another example, though.

Yeah but he was the henchman. I thought of that too, but the minute we saw Salza get shoved aside by Goku like he was nothing, was the minute he was no longer much of a threat. It could be said Piccolo dominating him was enough to not make him credible enough to need a big finish. So him dying like that didn't feel anti climatic since he wasn't the big bad, nor important enough to need a big finale like ending.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The Whis scene is used to justify this non-sensical garbage but it still makes no sense Goku does not have any natural resilience and yes, even that one can be trained to be stronger (remember when Gohan was punched in Filler but still just was knocked back and that guy hurt his hand because Gohan's face was hard as hell? yes, training, and that toughness also can defend you) and that Goku is "so arrogant" that he does not use ANY of his senses, which was part of his training when he was FIFTEEN years old. You are so relaxed that you are completely vulnerable to something like that? Sure. Then I guess Freeza had so much focus and power and guard when Namek exploded even though he was half the man he was before AND was attacked by Goku - that he still was able to "be on guard" for the explosion (that probably was way stronger than the ring) and it was not just because he was tough and resilient in general? Sure.

You can do a few scenes with fitting situations. That is not one of them. Even more ridiculous considering Sorbet was not even behind Goku (not that it would have mattered) but before him or at the side or something like that.

You just don't like the idea, there is no contradiction here, not even by logic. The fact that Freeza survived the explosion of Namek means that he was probably still conscious when that happened. Goku learned to use his senses from Kami & Mr. Popo back in the day, but that doesn't mean that he is always on-guard because of that. This is exactly what this scene explains: Goku should be able to be more on-guard because of his skills, but isn't because of his overconfidence.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

Goku struggling with 40 tons

That's more like a plot hole.

Ok how about Vegeta not finishing cell right when he had the chance?

[rereboy]

Yeah, apparently there have been subtle hints throughout the series that you can be hurt by much weaker opponents if you let the ki drain from your body.

They weren't subtle. Vegeta consciously drops his Ki in front of Krillin so that Krillin can hurt him badly and Vegeta can trigger a zenkai in the Freeza arc. And it works. The problem is that is pretty stupid for Goku to do that in front of golden Freeza.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I'm surprised no one else commented on Goten forgetting he could fly. TFS used that as a gag for Nappa to exaggerate his idiocy, but the same thing actually happened with Goten.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Goku struggling with 40 tons

That's more like a plot hole.

Ok how about Vegeta not finishing cell right when he had the chance?

That's more of being a badass. I'd do the same thing, What kind of saiyan would he be to cower from a challenge? Heck he almost killed cell anyways. The dumbest thing vegeta ever did was go Majin or Fuse with Goku to beat a villain GOku can kill himself.

[TKB21]

The dumbest thing vegeta ever did was go Majin or Fuse with Goku to beat a villain GOku can kill himself.

What villain are you referring to for point #2? Super Buu was far above Goku and Vegeta at that point.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

The dumbest thing vegeta ever did was go Majin or Fuse with Goku to beat a villain GOku can kill himself.

What villain are you referring to for point #2? Super Buu was far above Goku and Vegeta at that point.

I have ssj2 Vegeta and ssj3 Goku>Buuhan in terms of power level. I know people will disagree but that how I feel. If it was Gokuvs buuhan alone he'd go ssj3 and win,assuming we take away his feelings of saving the others,and vegeta only efed up thanks to goku blinding him with rage. also toei has to follow the manga and have them fuse so thank you badly written plot.

[TKB21]

I have ssj2 Vegeta and ssj3 Goku>Buuhan in terms of power level. I know people will disagree but that how I feel. If it was Gokuvs buuhan alone he'd go ssj3 and win,assuming we take away his feelings of saving the others,and vegeta only efed up thanks to goku blinding him with rage. also toei has to follow the manga and have them fuse so thank you badly written plot.

Filler aside, didn't they both struggle pretty badly against him before fusing?