Anybody already stopped watching Super?

[ekrolo2]

Dragon Ball had its fair share of bad animation and so does Super, the problem with Super is that the new art style is nowhere near as appealing as the old one even at its best. It's also 2015 so you expect some problems to be ironed out. But apparently Super is being even more cheaply produced than DBZ was.

1. Not liking the art style is, of course, a matter of opinion. I think in terms of key frames, Super is less consistently off model from its own model (especially in the very uchiyama sense, of weird elongation/deformations), and I find that more appealing, even if we get a style that is not the same as early Dragon Ball.
2. Some problems: sure. Not having to deal with a limited color pallete and quicker shading. Easier time shading things they can use effects for like water. But it isn't like there is some massive development in simply drawing out a scene frame by frame that is different today as opposed to in 1995 or that they have solved problems like lack of animators and underpaid animators.
3. Well, it is more cheaply produced, and understandably so. DBZ was an incredibly popular weekday evening show, so it got more frames per episode and a budget to match. DBS just isn't and I don't think there is a market for that. Who is going to pay primetime prices/framerates for a Sunday morning cartoon?

DBS is still a sequel to DBZ though and two fairly successful movies, renewing interest in all things Dragon Ball. I'm not saying give it a gargantuan budget but ffs, at least give it a somewhat higher one than DBZ had.

[DragonHermit]

Madhouse gives better animation to new anime based off webcomics like One Punch man than Toei does to DBS or OP. Toei is there to squeeze every last dime.

[irreality]

DBS is still a sequel to DBZ though and two fairly successful movies, renewing interest in all things Dragon Ball. I'm not saying give it a gargantuan budget but ffs, at least give it a somewhat higher one than DBZ had.

*Higher* than DBZ? DBZ had its heyday 20 years ago -- no matter how popular BoG and RoF are, it is not in the same level of popularity as it used to be, and there is no reason it would merit a higher budget.

[ekrolo2]

DBS is still a sequel to DBZ though and two fairly successful movies, renewing interest in all things Dragon Ball. I'm not saying give it a gargantuan budget but ffs, at least give it a somewhat higher one than DBZ had.

*Higher* than DBZ? DBZ had its heyday 20 years ago -- no matter how popular BoG and RoF are, it is not in the same level of popularity as it used to be, and there is no reason it would merit a higher budget.

So the series is only popular when its convenient to hype up its importance and not its actual worth?

[irreality]

So the series is only popular when its convenient to hype up its importance and not its actual worth?

I honestly don't understand what you are trying to say. Popularity has to do with how many people watch it and how many people are willing to buy products based on what they see. DB was more popular in Japan at the height of its broadcast than now, so in an effort of ensure continued longevity and return on investment of this product, they need to place production values on par to what they expect their viewership and consumers to be. It is not some arthouse anime that can go bankrupt on production values because they know the main draw is pretty graphics.

[Scott]

I noticed a lot of the complains are from people who've seen the movie so to anyone who didn't,what do you think of Super so far ?

Garbage.

[Araki]

People be like ``Super have horrible animation/art,DBZ is far better`` *picks the best screenshot in dbz and compare it to the worst screenshot for Super* Most people actually ignored all the good shots that Araki posted and will just focus on the horrible ones just like how people ignore all the good things about Super/BOG/ROF and will just focus on the bad ones.

This. And i wasn't even trying to find particularly nice shots, i just used the first ones i came across. I could've used the great SSJ Goku from episode 16, for instance, but too much work.
But of course, comparing different tv episodes of Super to different ones of DBZ is "conjecture". Comparing a still from a DBZ movie to a tv frame of an unfinished and exception episode isn't. lol

That's not an excuse. One can easily use the same excuse you used to defend episode 5 or 9 of Super.

Exactly. And i would easily take Yoshitaka Yashima (from episode 9) over the average Uchiyama episode. I mean, sorry, but i seriously don't know how anyone unbiased would say this:

Spoiler:

looks any worse than this:

Spoiler:

Well, to each their own.

Madhouse gives better animation to new anime based off webcomics like One Punch man than Toei does to DBS or OP. Toei is there to squeeze every last dime.

Madhouse does the same, they're not working for "art". Toei has many shows running at the same time, which is impossible for a smaller studio like Madhouse (if they could, they would go for it). One Punch Man will run for only 12 episodes, so it's actually much cheaper to produce than a long running series, and also much easier to share the budget and plan better animation for each week accordingly. You can't compare.
They don't usually make long running anime like HxH, that was an exception (that probably made them lose money, as it moved to late night, didn't have great ratings and didn't sell either).

[JulieYBM]

The big reason One Punch Man looks good has nothing to do with money. Character Designer and Chief Animation Supervisor Kubota Chikashi confirmed on Twitter that the series has an average production budget. It only looks as good as it does because the staff love the series. You don't need to be Madhouse to get that kind of results.

[sintzu]

The big reason One Punch Man looks good has nothing to do with money. Character Designer and Chief Animation Supervisor Kubota Chikashi confirmed on Twitter that the series has an average production budget. It only looks as good as it does because the staff love the series. You don't need to be Madhouse to get that kind of results.

It's a shame Super is stuck with people who only care about getting a pay check at the end of the month.

[VegettoEX]

The big reason One Punch Man looks good has nothing to do with money. Character Designer and Chief Animation Supervisor Kubota Chikashi confirmed on Twitter that the series has an average production budget. It only looks as good as it does because the staff love the series. You don't need to be Madhouse to get that kind of results.

Worth noting that even OPM is getting some criticism, particularly with that scene in the most recent episode that had an "animated" equivalent in the manga which didn't live up to expectations in the anime. There will be more like that coming along, too, so it'll be interesting to see how they're handled.

I also wonder if: since OPM's only going to be 12 episodes for now (is that right?), the animation staff might be willing to pour more into it knowing there's an end-goal in sight and they can go back to half-assing whatever comes next .

With DB, you don't have that end-goal ever in sight.

[Michie]

Saying that the animation of Super is okay because it's an ongoing anime is insulting to almost every other anime.
Other than some 3 minute anime, Super has the worst animation in recent history (even compared to other long running anime). However I think it's clear that Toei started working on Super only very recently. The last episodes of the God arc had decent animation and I'm sure the Freeza arc is going to be okay.

I just hope that people that gave up on Super will come back now the God arc is over.

[irreality]

I think Super's animation is better looking than One Piece -- admittedly, I'm not a One Piece fan, just have seen random clips, and they always look terrible to me. (not like "one piece bad animation clip" random, just like "give me random one piece scenes, google!" random).

[Jaetinh]

Even though One Piece does have bad animations at times, I don't think it's as terrible as DBS. Nowhere near tbh.

[irreality]

Even though One Piece does have bad animations at times, I don't think it's as terrible as DBS. Nowhere near tbh.

Maybe I just don't like the art style in general, then? I don't think it is all that good. I'll do some more looking around to form a better opinion, but I haven't seen anything impressive, on par with what I saw in the space scenes or some of the better character interaction moments in DBS.

[Ajay]

Maybe I just don't like the art style in general, then? I don't think it is all that good. I'll do some more looking around to form a better opinion, but I haven't seen anything impressive, on par with what I saw in the space scenes or some of the better character interaction moments in DBS.

One Piece has a huge number of high points. But it's also suffered just as much as Super has, at times.

Hard to really compare the two, given how long One Piece has been running. It's definitely ahead of Super as it stands, though.

[VegettoEX]

One Piece is also the king of domestic licensing revenue in Japan; I'm sure there's more pressure placed on that than, say, Dragon Ball Super.

[JulieYBM]

Worth noting that even OPM is getting some criticism, particularly with that scene in the most recent episode that had an "animated" equivalent in the manga which didn't live up to expectations in the anime. There will be more like that coming along, too, so it'll be interesting to see how they're handled.

I also wonder if: since OPM's only going to be 12 episodes for now (is that right?), the animation staff might be willing to pour more into it knowing there's an end-goal in sight and they can go back to half-assing whatever comes next .

With DB, you don't have that end-goal ever in sight.

Yeah, there's a bit of criticism about that. Personally I think it's a bit overblown considering sacrifices have to be made and it isn't like the comic scene in particular is as cool as anything else the animated series has done. Kameda Yoshimichi's bit from Episode #1 easily beats the pants off it given there's actual background animation, for example.

As for the effort, the end-goal being in sight isn't really an issue. After all, the staff is going to hop right onto the next project soon after they finish One Punch Man. All of the core staff are not even Madhouse employees, they're just freelancers who can work on whatever projects they choose. We've seen what, say, Kameda does when he's not really working on a project for the fun of it. There was one episode of Hajime no Ippo: Rising where Kameda provided key animation but you'd be damned if you tell what he did because none of it had his usual impact.

Dragon Ball Super is being tossed together so haphazardly there isn't much in the way of time to put together a real winner of an episode, anyway. If Tate could stop getting stuck on this terribly short schedules and lead an episode with an extra two or four weeks to do animation himself it would be a real contender.

The big reason One Punch Man looks good has nothing to do with money. Character Designer and Chief Animation Supervisor Kubota Chikashi confirmed on Twitter that the series has an average production budget. It only looks as good as it does because the staff love the series. You don't need to be Madhouse to get that kind of results.

It's a shame Super is stuck with people who only care about getting a pay check at the end of the month.

All the love in the world can't help when you're either a shitty animator or just plain have no time to do anything yourself (Tate Naoki).

Saying that the animation of Super is okay because it's an ongoing anime is insulting to almost every other anime.
Other than some 3 minute anime, Super has the worst animation in recent history (even compared to other long running anime). However I think it's clear that Toei started working on Super only very recently. The last episodes of the God arc had decent animation and I'm sure the Freeza arc is going to be okay.

I just hope that people that gave up on Super will come back now the God arc is over.

Dragon Ball Super began production so quickly that Series Director Chioka Kimitoshi had no time to storyboard Episode #1 himself because he had been off storyboarding One Piece Episode #690 (26 April 2015) and World Trigger Episode #35 (21 June 2015). Tanaka Yuuta had about six months between abandoning Majin Bone Episode #23 after finishing his storyboard (02 September 2014) to become series director of Go! Princess PreCure, develop the series' main plot and characters and storyboard and direct Episode #1 (01 February 2015). Koga Gou had similar time for when he abandoned his One Piece Episode #570 (28 October 2012) storyboard to be series director of Doki-Doki! PreCure (03 February 2013).

In other words, Dragon Ball Super pretty much had no pre-production. It started on a bad foot and stayed on a bad foot because not enough animators and episode directors could be found to get episodes further in production. The extensive use of the storyboard credit in place of having episode directors draw their own storyboards as Toei Animation usually requires is another big sign of a rushed production with little staff.

I think Super's animation is better looking than One Piece -- admittedly, I'm not a One Piece fan, just have seen random clips, and they always look terrible to me. (not like "one piece bad animation clip" random, just like "give me random one piece scenes, google!" random).

All good recent One Piece animation can be found on Sakugabooru. Just make sure the Source field lists an episode number and not the name of a special or movie.

One Piece is also the king of domestic licensing revenue in Japan; I'm sure there's more pressure placed on that than, say, Dragon Ball Super.

Not necessarily. One Piece has gone through ginormous dry spells. It's only been recently that One Piece has started getting good animators and fight scenes occasionally again, but even those are sparse. The real golden era was around Thriller Bark through the mid-400s. After that the core staff had fewer in-house animators, fewer good episode directors, fewer contacts with freelancers and seemingly fewer drawings for action cuts. Last I checked the series wasn't doing nearly as bad as we are over here, though. One Piece at least maintains a steady production schedule more often than not.

[fadeddreams5]

Exactly. And i would easily take Yoshitaka Yashima (from episode 9) over the average Uchiyama episode. I mean, sorry, but i seriously don't know how anyone unbiased would say this:

Spoiler:

looks any worse than this:

Spoiler:

Well, to each their own.

I... don't see anything wrong with the DBZ pictures you posted, besides the last one. Goku fingers in the first pic? SSJ Goku's altered design in the 2nd pic (and majority of episodes thereafter)? The last one, I'm sure, only lasted a second in the episode.

Not only do they look deformed during the SSJG ritual, but they remain that way during the entire thing. Never in the history of this series has a transformation sequence looked bad... until Super.

[Khin]

Exactly. And i would easily take Yoshitaka Yashima (from episode 9) over the average Uchiyama episode. I mean, sorry, but i seriously don't know how anyone unbiased would say this:

Spoiler:

looks any worse than this:

Spoiler:

Well, to each their own.

I... don't see anything wrong with the DBZ pictures you posted, besides the last one. Goku fingers in the first pic? SSJ Goku's altered design in the 2nd pic (and majority of episodes thereafter)? The last one, I'm sure, only lasted a second in the episode.

Not only do they look deformed during the SSJG ritual, but they remain that way during the entire thing. Never in the history of this series has a transformation sequence looked bad... until Super.

What do you expect them to do? scream for almost an entire episode?

[Araki]

I... don't see anything wrong with the DBZ pictures you posted, besides the last one. Goku fingers in the first pic? SSJ Goku's altered design in the 2nd pic (and majority of episodes thereafter)? The last one, I'm sure, only lasted a second in the episode.

The pathetic (and ginormous) SSJ hair? The faces? The eyes? Everything is wrong. And the Uchiyama episodes looked like that all the way through.