Master Roshi "Buff Form"

[LightBing]

We know Master Roshi can power up greatly, decimating a mountain the first time he used it and the moon the second.
The power he showed is only comparable with Piccolo Daimao, when the last wiped out a city. Until that point in the series there we no other feats of destruction of that magnitude.

So, how powerful is the Buff form and what are it's disadvantages? In the most recent movie, the old master uses it without showing any problems. Could he have mastered it, from the time where it was only good to use the Max Power Kamehameha? Or did the form never needed to be mastered, but for some reason it was never used in regular combat.

Also, could other humans adopt the transformation?

[precita]

He's probably slightly below King Piccolo in his buffed form, or else he would have fought and killed King Piccolo without using the evil containment wave.

[Speedster]

I made this post recently which covers your question. Perhaps the two threads can be merged but I want to be Piccolo (and not Nail or Kami... )

Regarding Piccolo Daimao- his biggest feat was blowing up a city and saying that he could destroy the entire world if he wanted though it is implied that he meant everything on the Earth's surface and not the earth's crust. This pales in comparison to the energy required to blow up the moon. I have a theory regarding power levels but I will amend it a bit more soon.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I think Roshi panted in exhaustion after using that form in RoF so there was a problem/drawback.

[LowRyder2005]

I have this little and humble fan theory that Roshi, being uber-old and very knowledgeable, knew about Kami and therefore didn't try to kill Piccolo to keep the Dragon Balls around, avoiding to fight him to keep his strenght for the Mafuuba.
Therefore, he could be stronger than what he appears to be in that saga. I don't know about the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, still.

By the time of "Revival of F" he should at least be well above Saibaman tier. Despite everyone saying that the Freeza army was weaker, they sure as hell weren't farmers armed with cosmic shotguns. I can't picture them as inferior to Saibamen (because, really, why not use a Saibamen army in the first place? Daiz says they are bio-engineered and seems like they are disposable enough; of course there could be other unexplained reasons for that, but I don't like lazy writing).
Anyway, since his performance is technically comparable to Krillin's, for one, someone supposedly about "some form of pre-RoF Freeza"-tier (basing this on the 2008 special) it's a bit hard to guess the exact extent of his powers. My idea is that everyone fights heavily suppressed, since later it's made apparent that they purposefully avoided to kill any soldier, and that fighting heavily suppressed for so long ended up depleting their stamina. It's the only way I can, tentatively, make sense of what happens on-screen.

[buutenks]

Freeza's troops have different PL.

Based from the namek saga,id say they go from 500 to close to 2 k i think.Roshi would be in that area.So id say buff roshi is proly on raditz's level if not higher.Perhaps 1.5 k or so PL.

SO hooray for roshi,he just became uber powerful ^^.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Roshi having a 4 digit PL after all this time is hardly inconceivable.

[LightBing]

Roshi having a 4 digit PL after all this time is hardly inconceivable.

Depends on the training he's had. Humans got stronger because they had better training methods with different masters. If Roshi get's into 4 digit territory just by swimming around his island that's silly and out of nowhere.

If he trained to dominate his Buff Form, while getting a little bit stronger, I can roll with that and makes it sense. For all we know his Buff Form was only good to fire the Max Power Kamehameha, so it packs insane power. Making it logical why he didn't use it against Piccolo Daimao.

[smiley]

Since Chaotzu and Yamcha were left out of the fight because of their inferior strength, Roshi must at least be above them. And how strong was Yamcha, again? Stronger than Raditz, right?

And that was way back in the Saiyan saga. Yamcha later showed up to fight the Androids, who are supposed to much stronger than Freeza. Yamcha wasn't aware of the full extent of the Super Saiyan power; but Trunks, Goku, Kind Cold and Freeza had to at least have power levels in the millions when they fought on Earth. I wouldn't be surprised if humans, and therefore Roshi, had power levels that were comparable to that. Anything less than a power level in the six digits, I find very unlikely.

[Son Edo]

I haven't seen the movie but in every other instance he could only fire a Kamehameha in that state, not actually fight psychically with it.

[Battousai]

Since Chaotzu and Yamcha were left out of the fight because of their inferior strength, Roshi must at least be above them. And how strong was Yamcha, again? Stronger than Raditz, right?

And that was way back in the Saiyan saga. Yamcha later showed up to fight the Androids, who are supposed to much stronger than Freeza. Yamcha wasn't aware of the full extent of the Super Saiyan power; but Trunks, Goku, Kind Cold and Freeza had to at least have power levels in the millions when they fought on Earth. I wouldn't be surprised if humans, and therefore Roshi, had power levels that were comparable to that. Anything less than a power level in the six digits, I find very unlikely.

It's impossible that Roshi is stronger than Yamcha or Chaozu.

Tenshinhan was just being too protective and told them not to fight. If they were with Kuririn, they would fight for sure.

[smiley]

Why is it impossible? Why wasn't he equally protective of Roshi? Tien doesn't care about Yamcha any more than he does for Roshi. Why didn't someone say: "Um, Roshi, buddy, sorry to say, but you're an old geezer who's really no better than Chaotzu and Yamcha. Perhaps you should step back and let us youngsters take care of this".

[voltlunok]

Why is it impossible? Why wasn't he equally protective of Roshi? Tenshinhan doesn't care about Yamcha any more than he does for Roshi. Why didn't someone say: "Um, Roshi, buddy, sorry to say, but you're an old geezer who's really no better than Chaotzu and Yamcha. Perhaps you should step back and let us youngsters take care of this".

Two points here.

One, Ten probably didn't say anything to Roshi because Roshi is his elder and really do you think Roshi would listen to him? I don't. I think he'd just be a stubborn old man and go out anyways. There is also the fact that Tenshinhan probably doesn't care as much for Roshi as he does Yamcha or Chiaotzu.

Two, it's been shown that Yamcha and Tenshinhan actually get along and do hang out from time to time, Yamcha sometimes helps on the farm Ten and Chiaotzu have. (Least last I checked this was still a thing. In this world of wibbly wobbly continuity I'm unsure these days.) so yes there is reason for Tenshinhan to worry about Yamcha but I believe the other reason he had Yamcha stay behind was not to protect Yamcha but to have Yamcha be the last thing between Freeza's army and Chiaotzu and Puar. Least, that's how I see that bit.

As for if it's impossible for Roshi to surpass Yamcha, I'll leave that to the power level people cause they have more solid math skills then I.

[precita]

Yamcha was already stronger than Roshi by the end of Dragonball. After training with King Kai he is loads stronger.

People like to ignore the fact that Yamcha is now stronger than Goku was for Dragonball and the first 1/4th of DBZ. Master Roshi would not be able to beat Radditz either.

[Akira]

I really enjoyed seeing Roshi fighting seriously again in Resurrection F. He has for so long been left in the background or used as merely a gag character, I hope the Dragonball Super version of this story arc fleshes out his return to prominence in more detail. His buff form is stronger than most suspect, yet (for battle power enthusiasts anyway) a number is never given for this form. Aside from the scene at mount frypan, and his use at the 21st budokai to blow up the moon, he appeared to be partially powered up for his fight against Tenshinhan at the 22nd Budokai. Roshi forfeit the fight after Ten had a change of heart and was seen to be a suitable rival for Goku at that time. Often seen as him giving up rather than have his alter-ego Jackie Chun be defeated by Ten, it may have been that (at that time) he stepped down to allow Ten to advance to the final round rather than have to use his max power to fight Goku again himself. He's a wily old coot, and there may have been more to his decision there than meets the eye.

[LightBing]

I really enjoyed seeing Roshi fighting seriously again in Resurrection F. He has for so long been left in the background or used as merely a gag character, I hope the Dragonball Super version of this story arc fleshes out his return to prominence in more detail. His buff form is stronger than most suspect, yet (for battle power enthusiasts anyway) a number is never given for this form. Aside from the scene at mount frypan, and his use at the 21st budokai to blow up the moon, he appeared to be partially powered up for his fight against Tenshinhan at the 22nd Budokai. Roshi forfeit the fight after Ten had a change of heart and was seen to be a suitable rival for Goku at that time. Often seen as him giving up rather than have his alter-ego Jackie Chun be defeated by Ten, it may have been that (at that time) he stepped down to allow Ten to advance to the final round rather than have to use his max power to fight Goku again himself. He's a wily old coot, and there may have been more to his decision there than meets the eye.

He was certainly in the same tier as Tenshinhan and Goku during the 22nd TB. Which is impressive taking into account he was even with Goku during the 21st TB and just mentioned training to keep up. While Goku went thought numerous battles and trained with Karin.

Maybe he trained and mastered the Buff Form because #18 was always punching him, when he did something perverted. I would be a fun explanation to his FnF upgrade.