Let's Appreciate the Faulconer Score

[Lord Exor]

Furthering the problem is that the placement is often inappropriate. I would actually point to Goku's Super Saiyan theme you listed as being an excellent example of this. His transformation was not supposed to be a "badass," or "heroic," or a "the chosen one has come"-type moment (although one could argue that that's exactly what his "I Am" speech was supposed to be), it was meant to be a rather terrifying moment.

Honestly, this is up for interpretation. This SSJ form is foreshadowed earlier in the arc, and in this scene, the chosen one really has come. Faulconer's theme as he is transforming perfectly captures the mystery of the form, imo. It's how the music changes after he goes blond that comes across as "badass." And hell, it is.

It certainly is up for interpretation in some respects, but I prefer the interpretation that Toei and Toriyama came up with. Firstly because it was closer to the vision of the original creators, secondly because I find it more interesting regardless of that fact, and thirdly because Faulconer's score didn't really mesh with the scene. It's only "badass" if the characters around understand what happened, and initially, they don't.

It's not really supposed to hit home that Goku's transformation is necessarily a good thing until a little while later. Notice that when Goku becomes a Super Saiyan for the first time, Gohan has a terrified look on his face. He has no idea what the hell just happened, and is frightened almost beyond speaking, he's not jubilant or happy about this at all. On top of that, the first thing Goku says after the transformation is an angry order (not a gentle request, but an angry order) for Gohan to leave, even following it up with "Go now, before I lose what little sense of reason I have left!" So Faulconer's somewhat heroic, "the chosen one has arrived"-type music doesn't really match any of the facial expressions or words of the characters, in my observation.

The first half of Faulconer's theme--which is to say, before Goku's hair finally becomes blonde--does have a sense of mystery, but it's more a sense of intruging mystery, like something good is about to happen. Conversely, the Japanese scores seem to indicate a more scary mystery, which pairs very effectively with what's happening at the moment. From a certain angle, it's kind of badass that Goku is transforming into the Super Saiyan who will ultimately defeat Freeza, but that's not info that's supposed to be known at that time. As such, it's emphasizing the wrong emotions, in my opinion. The Japanese scores communicated the feelings that the characters were feeling in that moment, but it seems the Faulconer score communicated the feelings that FUNimation was hoping the viewers would have. Put another way, I feel like the Japanese scores were in sync with what was going on on screen, whereas with Faulconer's score, I feel like FUNimation is breaking the fourth wall and saying to the viewers, "Aaaalll right, he's gonna do it, he's gonna go Super Saiyan kids, isn't it cool!? Please keep watching the show, we've been cancelled twice and we may not get another shot at this!"

For that reason, it just takes me out of the moment, that's all. *Shrug*

I also happen to think that Faulconer's score overall sounds very dated, even more so than Kikuchi's score. That's the good thing about orchestral music--it's the one genre of music (other than singing, perhaps) that has stood the test of time for literally centuries.

I'm sure any music critic would probably agree with you. However, I heard Kikuchi's score before I ever heard Faulconer (i.e. prior to season 3 of the dub). I figured the soundtrack was like that because of how old the Japanese version of the show was. Funi and Ocean's soundtrack felt much more modern.

Likewise, when I was little, I thought Tenchi in Tokyo was a much older series than the other two ones that aired before it because of the music. I just recently found out Kikuchi composed it.

His style is so '60's to me. Not my cup of tea. Though there are several gems I do really like, and his overall OST is recognizable.

I would agree with this. I think Faulconer's score is more dated by comparison, but Kikuchi's still feels somewhat dated. This is particularly evident when it's put up against the other Japanese scores that have come out. I mean, with Kenji Yamamoto's score--well, OK, one of the problems is that his score is not technically his score, but you know what I mean--the music felt modern, like what you'd hear in....heheh.....Hollywood movies.

Part of me wonders if that's Kikuchi's style or the orchestra he was dealing with, though. His score didn't sound like it was recorded by a particularly big orchestra.

Do you honestly believe Kikuchi ruminated in any meaningful way on Goku's Super Saiyan transformation? Or that the "scary" mood was intentional (I don't personally find any of his music unsettling or creepy, by the way)? As far as I know, they appropriated completely unrelated music from the Dragon Ball films and inserted them wherever they saw fit. Mike Smith's SSJ theme was the first piece of music specifically written to picture for that particular event.

[precita]

I really like the same popular tracks most people do:

1. SSJ3 Goku theme, the absolute best

2. Gohan's anger theme

3. Piccolo's theme

4. Vegeta's Super Saiyan theme during the Buu arc, and his general theme from back in the Namek arc

5. Majin Buu's theme music is incredible

6. Cell's theme

7. Pikkon's theme


The funny thing is the dub music hit its absolute height during the Buu saga, which is a shame because during the Freeza saga and parts of Cell he didn't really have that many good pieces. I really wish some of the later themes were created earlier.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

Do you honestly believe Kikuchi ruminated in any meaningful way on Goku's Super Saiyan transformation?

(If we speak only about Dragon Ball Z music) Out of 15 recording sessions, only two were composed for the TV show (M700 series for the firs episodes with CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA and M1700 series for the first episodes with WE GOTTA POWER)
The rest of them was recorded for the theatrical movies. In Dragon Ball, 3 sessions were recorded for the movies and 5 for the TV series. Some music pieces from those sessions were also used in Dragon Ball Z.

As far as I know, they appropriated completely unrelated music from the Dragon Ball films and inserted them wherever they saw fit. Mike Smith's SSJ theme was the first piece of music specifically written to picture for that particular event.

You're actually right here, but you cannot judge Kikuchi, because he wasn't the one who picked the music. Shigeru Miyashita was responsible for music selection in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z.

If you want to form an opinion about Kikuchi, I suggest using the movies as a reference. If you want to criticize the music placements in the series, you should criticize Shigeru Miyashita, not Kikuchi himself.
I guess that booklets of Ongakushū, Daizenshū and BGM Collection contain more information, but I'm still at the point of transcribing/translating them, so I cannot tell.

(I don't personally find any of his music unsettling or creepy, by the way)?

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3vlzaYOdTs
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rgdyeMExdM
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glDK8zs9O2M
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egk6zHoI5VQ
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx_axP1LQxo
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwXAa1mDlOI
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Y2Nbc2BJU
and many, many more.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Do you honestly believe Kikuchi ruminated in any meaningful way on Goku's Super Saiyan transformation? Or that the "scary" mood was intentional (I don't personally find any of his music unsettling or creepy, by the way)? As far as I know, they appropriated completely unrelated music from the Dragon Ball films and inserted them wherever they saw fit. Mike Smith's SSJ theme was the first piece of music specifically written to picture for that particular event.

Well, let there be no mistake, I was never under the impression that the Kikuchi piece used for Goku's first SSJ transformation was specifically composed for that scene. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the first time that piece was heard was during Movie 1, and that most (if not all) of the time, Kikuchi's music was not composed for specific scenes in the TV series.* So no, I don't believe he ruminated on it.

With that said, whoever was in charge of placing the music certainly ruminated on it. I forget what the name of that position would be (I vaguely remember the term "audio director," or something like that?), but whatever position Shigeru Miyashita held, Miyashita certainly did think about it very carefully. Miyashita had a whole library of pieces to choose from, and he chose that piece...and it totally works. It's also worth noting that tracks with a similar feel was used for that scene in both the Yamamoto-Kai mix and the Kikuchi-Kai mix, which suggests even more strongly that this was the intended feel from the start.

As for you not finding it unsettling/creepy/scary....well, that's subjective. It's absolutely fine if that's not what you got from that music, but that's what I got from it. Perhaps "scary" is not even the best word. Whatever word works best to describe a sudden burst of rage that results in an unexpected transformation, causing the protagonist to say things he wouldn't normally say..."scary" is one word for it, but there are others.

I'm not trying to disrespect the work of Mike Smith, but I do believe that he was trying to communicate what FUNimation wanted their young viewers to feel, not what the characters in the scene were feeling. To me, it's still too weird for heroic music to be playing while Goku's rage consumes him, while he undergoes a transformation that nobody understands initially, while he yells at his son to leave before he loses what little sense of reason he has left, and while his son looks on in terror. Put another way, I still believe that that music broke the fourth wall too much and was not appropriate for that scene. Add that on top of the fact that Smith was not one of the people involved in the creative process of the original show, and that music doesn't really do much for me. That's just my opinion, of course.

*EDIT: Or, as Kojiro Sasaki indicated, very rarely was it composed for the TV series.

[Lord Exor]

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3vlzaYOdTs
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rgdyeMExdM
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glDK8zs9O2M
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egk6zHoI5VQ
5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx_axP1LQxo
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwXAa1mDlOI
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Y2Nbc2BJU

While some may come close, I don't think they match the likes of these:
Episodic Frieza
Dr. Gero's Theme

[Kojiro Sasaki]

While some may come close, I don't think they match the likes of these:
Episodic Freeza
Dr. Gero's Theme

Pure matter of taste. I think the exact opposite. To me, Kikuchi tracks are darker and their sounding is “richer” and more sophisticated.
Another bunch of music pieces:
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85H0tOe31Qo
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JskcF06WYo
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2SgwSAOiuI
11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogk0jO6dh3E
12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVm2llG7wtI

[fadeddreams5]

Get that Kikuchi music out of this Faulconer appreciation thread!



jk. But I do find the Faulconer theme that plays when Frieza reappears here to be unsettling/creepy:
https://youtu.be/hczHOytwex4?t=37s

Especially at 0:50.

[Lord Exor]

While some may come close, I don't think they match the likes of these:
Episodic Freeza
Dr. Gero's Theme

Pure matter of taste. I think the exact opposite. To me, Kikuchi tracks are darker and their sounding is “richer” and more sophisticated.
Another bunch of music pieces:
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85H0tOe31Qo
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JskcF06WYo
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2SgwSAOiuI
11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogk0jO6dh3E
12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVm2llG7wtI

Perhaps. Music is mostly a subjective experience I suppose. However, while I'm hesitant to invoke anecdotal evidence to justify an argument, almost everyone I've ever met and polled (excluding existing fans of Kikuchi) believes otherwise.

If you want a "rich and sophisticated" piece of dark music, then I suggest you have a go at The Emperor's Theme by John Williams.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

However, while I'm hesitant to invoke anecdotal evidence to justify an argument, almost everyone I've ever met and polled (excluding existing fans of Kikuchi) believes otherwise.

99% of my local fanbase strongly prefers Kikuchi. What's the final conclusion?

If you want a "rich and sophisticated" piece of dark music, then I suggest you have a go at The Emperor's Theme by John Williams.

Very good example! (I am a big fan of Star Wars music)

Another Kikuchi track (dedicated to fadeddreams5 ): M1002

[TheBlackPaladin]

While some may come close, I don't think they match the likes of these:
Episodic Freeza
Dr. Gero's Theme

Pure matter of taste. I think the exact opposite. To me, Kikuchi tracks are darker and their sounding is “richer” and more sophisticated.
Another bunch of music pieces:
8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85H0tOe31Qo
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JskcF06WYo
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2SgwSAOiuI
11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogk0jO6dh3E
12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVm2llG7wtI

Perhaps. Music is mostly a subjective experience I suppose. However, while I'm hesitant to invoke anecdotal evidence to justify an argument, almost everyone I've ever met and polled (excluding existing fans of Kikuchi) believes otherwise.

I'm sure that's probably true. However--and by all means, correct me if I'm wrong--I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most of the people you've met and polled are primarily English-speaking fans? Again, absolutely no problem if that's the case, everybody can like what they like, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, it seems to me that most fans of Faulconer's score are people who were introduced to DBZ with that as the score. Very, very rarely have I heard a non-English* fan say that they like Faulconer's score. The vast majority of fans from other countries that I've talked to vastly prefer the Kikuchi music and find it odd that "the Americans" felt the need to change the music.

*"English" in this case meant to mean anybody who speaks English as their primary language...so, Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc.

[fadeddreams5]

The bias goes both ways, honestly. A lot of people introduced to the series with the Faulconer score look down on the Kikuchi OST, and many fans introduced to the series with the Kikuchi score look down on the Faulconer one. It just so happens the majority of the world didn't get Faulconer's.

[Lord Exor]

I only inquire from people unfamiliar with the material. They all invariably choose the Faulconer music over Kikuchi when it comes to expressing a dark or menacing atmosphere.

[fadeddreams5]

I would imagine young boys would probably prefer Faulconer if shown both too. *shrug*

[Soppa Saia People]

I would imagine young boys would probably prefer Faulconer if shown both too. *shrug*

Not me, I've always prefer the original score. (I got into Dragon ball when I was in 5th grade and when I say Dragon Ball I do mean the original series not just it in general)

[fadeddreams5]

I would imagine young boys would probably prefer Faulconer if shown both too. *shrug*

Not me, I've always prefer the original score. (I got into Dragon ball when I was in 5th grade and when I say Dragon Ball I do mean the original series not just it in general)

Well, you grew up with that version.

I mean young boys who have not followed the series and are asked to watch scenes featuring the Kikuchi and Faulconer soundtracks, simultaneously. I just sort of imagine the louder "hardcore" music to appeal more to the majority.

I base that on absolutely nothing.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The soundtrack isn't supposed to appeal though, it's only there to enhance the scene, like with most of F Prod. score it simply didn't do this. Also what you trying to prove by saying the F Prod. would appeal more to young boys? What is your point?

Speaking from experience it was never about the music for me watching DBZ like how the changed voices never bothered me, I just wanted to watch the show for the fights and charahcters (or what I thought the character were like) at that point I am already appealed I don't need "appealing" over the top in your face music. I also been trying to show the world of Dragon Ball to my little brother, he's seen some of Kai, some of Z. BoG and "F". He doesn't care for the music at all, I told him that four different people did the music on these releases and he was like he couldn't tell cuz he doesn't pay much attention to the music, which was exactly what I was like when I was watching it for the first time.

FUNi kept original music for "F" and BoG and hardly nobody complained, hell some-one on the "F" BD extra even praised the music and the silent moments in the film! Which leads me to believe no matter what FUNi did Z would 100% have had the same popularity.

[fadeddreams5]

The soundtrack isn't supposed to appeal though, it's only there to enhance the scene, like with most of F Prod. score it simply didn't do this. Also what you trying to prove by saying the F Prod. would appeal more to young boys? What is your point?

Speaking from experience it was never about the music for me watching DBZ like how the changed voices never bothered me, I just wanted to watch the show for the fights and charahcters (or what I thought the character were like) at that point I am already appealed I don't need "appealing" over the top in your face music. I also been trying to show the world of Dragon Ball to my little brother, he's seen some of Kai, some of Z. BoG and "F". He doesn't care for the music at all, I told him that four different people did the music on these releases and he was like he couldn't tell cuz he doesn't pay much attention to the music, which was exactly what I was like when I was watching it for the first time.

FUNi kept original music for "F" and BoG and hardly nobody complained, hell some-one on the "F" BD extra even praised the music and the silent moments in the film! Which leads me to believe no matter what FUNi did Z would 100% have had the same popularity.

The show itself is what hooked me too, not the music. In fact, just like you, I never paid any attention to the music of the first version of DBZ I watched (Ocean dub)--it was just there for me. The 2nd version of the show I ever watched contained Kikuchi's OST. Whether it's because I was already exposed to a different soundtrack, or Kikuchi's stood out to me, I was more aware of the music playing in this version, and I didn't like it. That said, I forgave the Japanese version because I figured it sounded that way because it was much older.

However, as you mentioned, music is supposed to enhance the experience. If a focus group is shown two identical scenes with radically different music, they will react differently to it both times. I just feel if young boys, the show's demographic, were simultaneously shown scenes featuring Faulconer and Kikuchi's soundtracks, they'd react more to the former and find it more appealing because of how loud and intense it is. That's not to say it's better or not.

I agree that the show would still have been popular if they kept the original soundtrack. Whether the world was exposed to Kikuchi or Faulconer, DBZ would still have been a hit everywhere it already is.

[precita]

Having watched the tail-end of the Freeza saga again, I have to say I prefer the Faulconer score for the scenes where Freeza gets sliced in half, the music that plays during all the scenes of planet Namek exploding, and the very last episode where Bulma wishes everyone back to life, etc.

The scene where Freeza is begging for his life after being chopped in half has a lot more tense emotion in the dub. Like you see Goku struggling if he'll give Freeza some of his energy to move, and that music keeps pounding...I loved it.

Also the last episode mostly had silence, I prefered the uplifting music in the dub score when Krillin is brought back to life and everyone claps, and the scenes where everyone else is restored.