So what exactly is this SSGSS?

[Bullza]

Nah it wouldn't imply that at all. In real life if I fought two people that were only half as strong, half as fast and half as tough as myself then I'd win easily.

The same seems to apply for the Dragon Ball series too. It was said that Kami, Tien, Krillin, Roshi, Yamcha together wouldn't be able to stop Piccolo Jr but their combined power level would be multiple times what his alone was.

I'd say two guys at about a 7.5-8 could probably be on par with a guy that was at a 10.

[Brettjr25]

On the subject of what exactly is SSGSS, do you guys believe the first time goku achieved it was during BOG when Goku went SS after losing SSG and that song by Flow kicked in? That would make sense wouldn't it? Its SS with the power of SSG and would explain why he didnt go ss3. I just dont think at the time they decided to make it blue. I wouldn't mind it if Super edited that scene to make him turn SSGSS there briefly. It would be a great transformation scene up there with gohans ssj2. It'll also be nice if during ROF when goku lowers his guard he goes into base for like in the original freeza saga.

[Gozar]

GT Goku knows who Beerus is in XenoVerse, so BoG happened in the GT timeline, also confirmed by a press release by Toei, and Shueisha's official timeline, even though the BoG scriptwriters (Watanabe & Toriyama) didn't care to make them fit. Fact.

I'm sorry, I don't actually have anything to contribute to this conversation, I was just wondering what press release this was stated in?

[dbgtFO]

GT Goku knows who Beerus is in XenoVerse, so BoG happened in the GT timeline, also confirmed by a press release by Toei, and Shueisha's official timeline, even though the BoG scriptwriters (Watanabe & Toriyama) didn't care to make them fit. Fact.

I'm sorry, I don't actually have anything to contribute to this conversation, I was just wondering what press release this was stated in?

It was some press release, when BoG was properly announced IIRC. It said the story would be part of the official continuity/timeline(shit, can't recall the wording!) between Z and GT or something of that sort.

[Bullza]

This?

"The global phenomenon Dragon Ball is being made into a movie using Toei Animation’s latest technology, consistently realized as a Toriyama work, with the original author Akira Toriyama himself deeply involved from the script stage for the first time. An episode from between the animation series “Z” and “GT”, or in other words from the blank decade between the end of the battle with Majin Buu in chapter 517 of the manga and chapter 518, will be depicted for the first time.

Such well-known and charming characters as Krillin, Piccolo, and Vegeta will all make an appearance. A new story in the official history of Dragon Ball is born, neither a spin-off nor a side-story, one that can be enjoyed by both children and parents, manga fans and anime fans."
— Toei Animation's Press Release for the upcoming film - July 17, 2012"

[DBZGTKOSDH]

This?

"The global phenomenon Dragon Ball is being made into a movie using Toei Animation’s latest technology, consistently realized as a Toriyama work, with the original author Akira Toriyama himself deeply involved from the script stage for the first time. An episode from between the animation series “Z” and “GT”, or in other words from the blank decade between the end of the battle with Majin Buu in chapter 517 of the manga and chapter 518, will be depicted for the first time.

Such well-known and charming characters as Krillin, Piccolo, and Vegeta will all make an appearance. A new story in the official history of Dragon Ball is born, neither a spin-off nor a side-story, one that can be enjoyed by both children and parents, manga fans and anime fans."
— Toei Animation's Press Release for the upcoming film - July 17, 2012"

Yeah, that's what I was talking about.

[Brettjr25]

Well I think that part of BOG is definitely a variant of the SSGSS state and I hope they acknowledge it in Super.

[Truhan]

Well I think that part of BOG is definitely a variant of the SSGSS state and I hope they acknowledge it in Super.

I think that SSJ improved upon Base Goku's power, which has been stretched due to the God power inside of him, but Base Goku was weaker than his SSJG self, and so the SSJ multiplier either put him closer or about equal. SSGSS is above his ritual God form, and if we consider the latter a fixed value, then SSGSS would be a number times more SSJG, for example. Basically:

SSGSS > SSJG = Base Goku w/ God Power Absorbed (in RoF) >= SSJ Goku with God Power Absorbed > Base Goku w/ God Power Absorbed (in BoG).

[Bullza]

So I'm bumping this because it seems that the consensus we had sorta reached might not be the case after all.

According to what Herms said on the new episode Goku does merge the God power with his own power but at that point he is not a God anymore.

In a way it kinda makes sense now why Goku said he couldn't sense Beerus' energy in between the two movies and instead had to teleport to Whis.

However if he already has the same God power as when he was a God then what's the difference between him being a God and not being God other than appearance? Just his energy not being sensed?

In the RoF movie after Vegeta turns into a SSGSS he mentions that he's a God now so is being a God something they just turn on and off like the Super Saiyan? How is SSGSS a God if all they're doing is turning Super Saiyan while they aren't a God?

It kinda seems to me as though

SSJG = God
Base form in RoF = Saiyan with a power level of a SSJG but not a God
SSGSS = Saiyan with a power level of a God turning into a Super Saiyan but not a God.

[ekrolo2]

Your best bet is to just wait for what RoF has to say on the issue. Trying to use Super stuff in conjunction with the movies just doesn't work given the fact they're basically alternate universes of one another where the rules aren't the same.

[oreos-splash]

Re editing this entire post

I now believe ssg is a power source that someone like Goku can access.

However there is a limit to how much a body can store. So I can imagine if both Goku and Goten became ssg, Goku would still be stronger because he's stronger physically and ki wise.

Ssgss is Goku simply transforming to make his vessel(body) stronger to be able to store even more pools of godly powers.

I compare the ssj and base form as empty rooms and godly power as water.

Ssj is a larger room, allowing more godly power to store there.

And I guess technically Goku could go ssj3ss. But it's a hurriedly finished larger room with cracks on the walls. Godly powers would be immense, but just as much would spill through the cracks from the pressure, and also probably tear the room(body) apart because ssj3 is a big strain on the body to begin with

So by training to increase his.levels of ssj, Goku can increase his vessel(room, body) safely and sturdy to absorb .more godly powers safely.
I like this idea

[Neon Z]

GT Goku knows who Beerus is in XenoVerse, so BoG happened in the GT timeline, also confirmed by a press release by Toei, and Shueisha's official timeline, even though the BoG scriptwriters (Watanabe & Toriyama) didn't care to make them fit. Fact.

Shueisha's newest timeline in the 30th anniversary site doesn't include GT or anything related to it. Also, regarding Xenoverse, GT Goku only recognizes Beerus in Parallel Quest and vs battle dialogue, which aren't necessarily canon. In the main story mode, GT Goku doesn' t recognize the time patroller, even though BoGs Goku joins the Time Patrol and fights alongside the Time Patroller in quite a few quests.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

In the RoF movie after Vegeta turns into a SSGSS he mentions that he's a God now so is being a God something they just turn on and off like the Super Saiyan? How is SSGSS a God if all they're doing is turning Super Saiyan while they aren't a God?

Actually he didn't, in the Japanese he refers to it as just Super Saiyan and didn't mention God at all and in the dub he says he has the power of a God not that he is a God. Which I think means that they only absorbed the power of SSG and none of the other effects hence why Goku can't sense Beerus or how people are able to sense Goku.

[oreos-splash]

te="SansrivaaL"]

I thought in the last movie there was a scene where Freeza asked him about it and Goku said that he didn't need to turn Super Saiyan anymore though.

Thats what I thought too, remember he was the first one to transform and he was technically owning Freeza in base so I dont see why he would need to go SSGSS if he can still go SSJ, wouldnt he go SSJ first, even Goku said the form is simply a supersaiyan with a power of a supersaiyan God so what... the God Ki has a freaking switch? I am so confused.[/quote]

i guess you can say it does. Godly power is their own power source that they can manipulate on their own from now on, but they can sort of shut it off if they want. In RoF when white ki and that yellow tinge appeared before Goku faced Frieza, I assumed that was him using his godly powers, but no transformation either because he mastered it, or because it's its own body reproducing the Godly powers on its own now and this is just a side effect

[Bullza]

In the RoF movie after Vegeta turns into a SSGSS he mentions that he's a God now so is being a God something they just turn on and off like the Super Saiyan? How is SSGSS a God if all they're doing is turning Super Saiyan while they aren't a God?

Actually he didn't, in the Japanese he refers to it as just Super Saiyan and didn't mention God at all and in the dub he says he has the power of a God not that he is a God. Which I think means that they only absorbed the power of SSG and none of the other effects hence why Goku can't sense Beerus or how people are able to sense Goku.

So the SSGSS isn't actually them as a God right? They obviously don't seem to be in base form and if technically all SSGSS is is them turning Super Saiyan then it doesn't seem accurate to call it a God.

That term "Saiyan Beyond God" seems more accurate.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

According to Herms' translation of Toriyama's script, the word "god" is only said in the movie once in regards to the Saiyans. And that's Goku's spiel about being a "Super Saiyan who is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God".

Everything else falls into one of three groups:
--Beerus saying "I'm a god"
--Someone using God of *blank* (Earth in regards to Dende, Destruction for Beerus)
--Goku saying god damnit

[Haseowolf]

In the RoF movie after Vegeta turns into a SSGSS he mentions that he's a God now so is being a God something they just turn on and off like the Super Saiyan? How is SSGSS a God if all they're doing is turning Super Saiyan while they aren't a God?

Actually he didn't, in the Japanese he refers to it as just Super Saiyan and didn't mention God at all and in the dub he says he has the power of a God not that he is a God. Which I think means that they only absorbed the power of SSG and none of the other effects hence why Goku can't sense Beerus or how people are able to sense Goku.

So the SSGSS isn't actually them as a God right? They obviously don't seem to be in base form and if technically all SSGSS is is them turning Super Saiyan then it doesn't seem accurate to call it a God.

That term "Saiyan Beyond God" seems more accurate.

Perhaps we shouldn't take the "Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God" completely literally? Perhaps it should be more along the lines of "This is the form of Super Saiyan after it's achieved the strength equal to a Super Saiyan God". Like, the form goes through it's own evolution after it reaches a certain point rather than it being a fusion of two different forms; which works as I don't think in their SSGSS forms they have or can sense Godly Ki.

Though, if that were true, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan isn't the best way to label it. While still not inaccurate, it would still be weird.

[Bullza]

Perhaps we shouldn't take the "Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God" completely literally?

I'd say that's probably the case. Before we mentioned that it was possibly the result of them just going Super Saiyan after having fully absorbed the power of SSJG but that's obviously not it because Vegeta never became a God.

What it looks like is that while Goku and Vegeta were training on Whis' planet perhaps they achieved a new form (like how Goku did the SSJ3 in the afterlife) and it just happened to have the same level of power as the SSJG Aka a Super Saiyan with the power of a God.

So it would have no connection to SSJG at all which would make sense in some ways.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'd say that's probably the case. Before we mentioned that it was possibly the result of them just going Super Saiyan after having fully absorbed the power of SSJG but that's obviously not it because Vegeta never became a God.

Vegeta can sense the ki of gods now, so it seems that he drew out his SSG powers through Whis' "ki control" training. So, he became a Saiyan beyond God through training, unlike Goku who went through SSG & absorbed its power.

[Bullza]

Well that part doesn't seem to make much sense. Once Goku's time was up as a SSJG he was no longer a God anymore, that then made sense as to why he said he couldn't sense Beerus in RoF.

So why can Vegeta sense God Ki in base form but Goku cannot?