Could we agree with a model for Dragon Ball?

[Truhan]

We're just exchanging words and picking at semantics at this point. I said that Ki is a character's resource, like mana on RPG, while you use it as power, when power is the thing that is being sensed (according to me), and the totals were left unsigned with a proper term. It all leads to the same thing in terms of numbers, so I'll stick to my own model, because it makes sense without the proper meaning. If you want to correct the terms, then feel free to do it. I'm gonna have to ask a moderator to close this thread though, because I'm tired.

[Hitiro]

We're just exchanging words and picking at semantics at this point. I said that Ki is a character's resource, like mana on RPG, while you use it as power, when power is the thing that is being sensed (according to me), and the totals were left unsigned with a proper term. It all leads to the same thing in terms of numbers, so I'll stick to my own model, because it makes sense without the proper meaning. If you want to correct the terms, then feel free to do it. I'm gonna have to ask a moderator to close this thread though, because I'm tired.

But Ki can't be the resource. As I said. Because Ki is what is sensed. Not "Power". Why would they have two different things and reference the power as what actually counts? I can understand if characters were going around saying "This power I'm sensing is amazing." and just using that. But the characters keep saying "This Ki is amazing." So it is clear that Ki is the factor for strength here. And if you're going to provide numbers then make it clear what is sensed before hand. Because I was assuming you were saying the total of power and resources combined is what is sensed. Saying it is the power that is sensed also is a bit illogical as this is technically the multiplier for the Saiyan's. Correct? Then how is this supposed to vary when they lose power? In your example we have an injured Gohan still outputting a power of 100. If that is what is being sensed(according to you) then why would the characters state his power has decreased? At least with the total it can vary with how much resources they have lost. But you've literally put that an injured Gohan and uninjured Gohan have the exact same power which you claim is the stat that is being sensed. So the other characters wouldn't notice him getting weaker.

[Truhan]

Sorry, I meant resource (Ki), which contrasts with total. I think I know what total is now: the relationship between power that is being used and Ki (and I know that Ki is power to you, but play along). So, when Piccolo sensed his Ki dropping, without Gohan changing his power (the thing that multiplies his attributes), because he remained a SSJ2, he was also saying that Gohan wouldn't be able to power up and beat Cell. The defining moment of Cell and Gohan's struggle was when Gohan used the remaining resources to power up further and gain advantage. The last example:

[SSJ2 Gohan Matching Cell's Kamehameha]

Power - 100
Resource - 20

[SSJ2 Gohan Surpassing Cell's Kamehameha]

Power - 200
Resource - 10

So as long as Cell could power up his Kamehameha against Gohan's until his resources dropped, he would win, but Gohan caught him distracted. But again, let this die.

[Hitiro]

Sorry, I meant resource (Ki), which contrasts with total. I think I know what total is now: the relationship between power that is being used and Ki (and I know that Ki is power to you, but play along). So, in saying that Piccolo sensed his Ki dropping, without Gohan changing his power (the thing that multiplies his attributes), because he remained a SSJ2, he was also saying that Gohan wouldn't be able to power up and beat Cell. The defining moment of Cell and Gohan's struggle was when Gohan used the remaining resources to power up further and gain advantage. The last example:

[SSJ2 Gohan Matching Cell's Kamehameha]

Power - 100
Resource - 20

[SSJ2 Gohan Surpassing Cell's Kamehameha]

Power - 200
Resource - 10

So as long as Cell could power up his Kamehameha against Gohan's until his resources dropped, he would win, but Gohan caught him distracted. But again, let this die.

The issue is if this was the case then all Gohan would have to do is dump all his resources into an attack and he will always win. Because as long as he can maintain enough resources for a full power attack then he will always be stronger than an opponent with a weaker full power. So it wouldn't matter if Gohan's resources(Ki) were to drop by half. He would still be able to maintain full power by the example your provided on the last page. But they specifically suggested that his Ki drop would be the reason he loses the battle. So Ki is more than just resources.

And I'm also done. The model you suggest just doesn't gel well with all of the inconsistencies I brought up. If it were to work like the model you suggest then none of the characters would be able to gauge their opponents strength.

[Truhan]

I know that "facts" are on your side for you to whore them, but it doesn't make things any more inconsistent or senseless. To move a machine you need power, and power uses resources. It's as simple as that.

[Hitiro]

I know that "facts" are on your side for you to whore them, but it doesn't make things any more inconsistent or senseless. To move a machine you need power, and power uses resources. It's as simple as that.

What I'm saying is inconsistent is your use of these. But regardless when you move a machine electricity is both the power and resource behind moving it. It isn't separated into two categories like you're suggesting here. Ki acts as the power and resource in one go. When you fire a Kamehameha you use up that Ki. When you exhaust yourself you lose that Ki. But it naturally serves as a power. Like electricity can hit you and kill you even though you use it as a resource because it is also a power. You can waste Ki like you can waste electricity. Which is what they do. And the less electricity you have the less powerful it is.

[Truhan]

Wow, you just found out a renewable and sustainable model for Dragon Ball. Congrats! Now they can increase their power as they use resources that are also increasing. Infinite power!!!!

Seriously, go fuck yourself, you fact whoring freak! I know this is moderation material, but I'm done with Kazenshuu. Discussing these things was not like this in the 90s, but not everyone had the privilege of the internet, I guess.

[Hitiro]

Wow, you just found out a renewable and sustainable model for Dragon Ball. Congrats! Now they can increase their power as they use resources that are also increasing. Infinite power!!!!

Seriously, go fuck yourself, you fact whoring freak! I know this is moderation material, but I'm done with Kazenshuu. Discussing these things was not like this in the 90s, but not everyone had the privilege of the internet, I guess.

Why is it infinite? No need to get offensive. Generating Ki requires on the user having stamina to burn. If they're fatigued they can't output Ki. We have Dende wishing back Goku's stamina at the end of the manga.

Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P9.4-5
Dende: “Th-that’s it! Polunga! Could you restore the stamina of a person called ‘Son Goku’, who’s fighting with Majin Boo right now in the Kaioshin Realm!?”
Polunga: “It’s possible, as long as I’m just restoring that person’s stamina to what it normally is.”

[Kaboom]

"Moderation material" recognized and dealt with. Carry on, folks.

[LowRyder2005]

Seriously, go fuck yourself, you fact whoring freak! I know this is moderation material, but I'm done with Kazenshuu. Discussing these things was not like this in the 90s, but not everyone had the privilege of the internet, I guess.

... Good grief.

[khalildh]

The funny thing is all Truuhan needed to bring up was Kaioken and it would have been easy to show why Hitiro is using a faulty argument.