"What If?" scenarios that you want to see?

tainted saiyan · Post by **tainted saiyan** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:40 am

It's called "Ginyu's Folly" It centers on Ginyu as he tries to take Frieza's body(he succeeds). Unfortunately, Ginyu can't control the body and frieza reveals that he knows the body switch too. He then kills Ginyu for his insolence.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:07 am

What if Buu successfully absorbed Vegetto?

Where's the "what if?" He absorbs Vegito and it's over. It doesn't have much potential for divergence.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:01 am

mAcChaos wrote:
What if Buu successfully absorbed Vegetto?
Where's the "what if?" He absorbs Vegito and it's over. It doesn't have much potential for divergence.

He could fight Super Yi Xing Long. That would be pretty epic.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:22 am

Deus ex Machina wrote:
mAcChaos wrote:
What if Buu successfully absorbed Vegetto?
Where's the "what if?" He absorbs Vegito and it's over. It doesn't have much potential for divergence.
He could fight Super Yi Xing Long. That would be pretty epic.

The Dragonballs are destroyed when Buu vaporizes the Earth.

gohanku · Post by **gohanku** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:08 am

After Gohan and Goku fused, maybe there will be a extra in the end when the fusion fight Vegetto ad kick his ass! Wait, did I say that? Crap... Don't kill me Rocketman! But seriously, a what if Cell was good, maybe a continue of the Raditz's wh at if to wishing him back, making him go super saiyan and a What if Broli wasn't crazy, I alway wonder what he would do...

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:12 am

I'd like to see a What-If to Ultimate Gohan defeating Super Buu as Toriyama originally intended. Somerthing like this:

Conan the SSJ wrote:
Mr.Piccolo wrote:Question 2 If you had a say in who would defeat Majin Buu (Fat, Super, Chibi, even the Thin one), who would it be and why?
BEWARE, BIG IDEA/RANT!!

It'd definitely be Ultimate Gohan beating Super Buu. If it were me determining things, I'd still have Buu absorb Gotenks and Piccolo, but rather than Goku getting Elder Kaioshin's life-energy reservoir, I'd just keep Tenshinhan coming to Gohan's rescue. Because of that and Dende doing some healing, Gohan would hold out against Buu long enough for the interior fusion separation. Then Gohan and Super Buu (w/t Piccolo, Goten and Trunks) in a seemingly equally-matched fight.

It could end with Buu holding Dende hostage to attempt to get Gohan to give himself up for absorption, but Gohan plays a trick on Buu where similar to Vegetto, he shields himself just as Buu absorbs him and ends up unmerged inside Buu's head (rather than his stomach or whatever Vegetto ended up). Then Gohan would proceed to detach Piccolo and the boys (everyone waking up as Gohan removes them rather than staying in comas), causing Buu to go back to his normal Evil/Super self. With Gohan and everyone escaping, he prepares for one final battle with Buu. Charges up a Kamehame-Ha, promising Buu his death will be quick and painless if he lets Dende go.

Mr. Satan, who's watching this whole thing from a bush, springs out in front of Gohan preparing his blast, screaming at Buu for what he's doing, saying "There's no point in any of this!!" With this striking a cord within Buu's suppressed memories, the fat Buu's personality slightly shows through as a tear courses from his eye and he utters "...Sa--tan...". His arms a bit weak from the realization that his former best friend is right in front of him, Dende manages to slip out and get out of the way. Gohan launches his attack at Buu who puts up a shield powerful enough to destroy the entire planet if it keeps growing.

With Buu struggling, Gohan reaches into his deepest latent powers. Buu, now completely devoid of his fat Buu personality from this struggle, mocks Gohan "Bwahahaha!! What will you do, from the power you were using in our last fight, it won't be enough to break this shield. It's more powerful than even my own self-destruction was!!" With this realization, we get a short cut to Kaioshin's world as Goku looks on, urging his son to break through (not talking to him through telepathy or anything). Gohan suddenly breaks out a sly grin, now proclaiming to Buu "Didn't you know, when you had beat me to near death, my power skyrocketed; when Dende healed me, it was if a whole new giga essence was within me. I am a 'Saiyan', afterall. Now prepare yourself Majin Buu, this ENDS NOW!!"

Suddenly Gohan's eyes proceed to turn Emerald Green as his utmost power is released (he doesn't go SSJ though) and the massive Kamehame-Ha turns from Blue to Golden to White, enveloping Buu and consuming every last trace of him. Shocked by this sight, Mr. Satan falls to his knees sad this creature whom almost became good, his best friend, is now gone; though bucks up a bit remembering what he did to Videl and the entire planet mumbling "That bastard got what he deserved..." Now, Gohan appears as though he's gonna collapse, similar to when he defeated Cell and Bojack, but just falls to one knee and stands right back up. Gohan suddenly hears a telepathic message from his Father, simply telling him "See, son? You were nowhere near needing my help, and at last your true destiny has been fulfilled. Give your brother and Mom my best, I'll be waiting for you guys..."

4-6 Months later, we see Gohan and the boys summoning Shenlong, whom revives all those who've died since Babidi's arrival, except for the most evil ones. Unfortunately not all of them were revived, as quite a few had been revived by some of the previous wishes over the years. We then get a look at Kuririn in the Other World talking to Goku on Grand Kaio's planet. Goku asks "Are you sad you can't be there to raise Marron?" Kuririn replies "Kind of, but 18 will be good to her, as will be Master Roshi. Besides, Goten's turning out well without his Dad, and at least now I don't have to die anymore!" The two laugh and begin sparring, we're then brought to the lower regions of Hell where Vegeta sits Indian style mediating, apparently he has his body but couldn't be revived as Shenlong once brought him back, and he simply lets a "...Hmm..." as we're brought back to Earth a year or so later.

Gohan and Videl have just graduated high-school and are sitting together at a fountain in Satan City. They talk to each other about various things, the recent battle with Buu, how they'll be going to college, and at last confess how much they love each other. Gohan shows her a ring, to which Videl doesn't answer but just hugs him excitedly. They then hold hands and Gohan calls Kinto-'Un. Many citizens of the city seeing the couple ride off on the golden cloud, Gohan no longer cares about the exposure, as he has truly become his Father's son. Gohan and Videl ride Kinto-'Un over beautiful, near CGI looking forest/mountain terrains as the Narrator exclaims "And thus ends a legacy beginning with a small mountain boy living alone in desolation -- Culminating with his elder son beginning a true normal life" And a flashback, very similar to the end of GT, takes place. A first portion focusing on Goku's adventures while a second portion focuses on Gohan's.

The Narrator continues "In these times of peace, the shadow of evil may still loom. But even so, a once ruthless infant alien raised as a gentle Earthling has left a dynasty that will always be around to protect our humble planet. Two sons that have surpassed his own power (Goten with fusion), as well as a future Granddaughter down the road of fate, this new generation of Z warriors will lead planet Earth into a divine era of peace and prosperity."

Finally, with that said, Gohan and Videl land at 439 district where Chichi is drying cloths and Goten and Trunks are sparring. Chichi looks down at Videl's hand, the viewer doesn't actually see the ring there, but we do see Chichi look up at her son with happy tears in her eyes. She hugs her son and future daughter-in-law together, the camera pans up from the small Son house to the beautiful blue sky, and the Narrator finishes "Farewell, Son Gohan, your story, as well as your Father's, will live in our hearts forever."

"The End"

I'm insanely sorry for that big rant, but I needed to get it off my chest!

Conan the SSJ wrote:
Rocketman wrote:Also, Roshi couldn't be revived by Shenron.
Okay, a flaw on my part. I suppose...he'd get a reference by Goku and Kuririn as "being in the Next World with Grandpa Gohan checking out some pichi-pichi gals". As for Piccolo, I guess there could be a shot of him meditating at the Lookout following Vegeta's shot in Hell, showing a nice contrast of those two characters. And some of you gotta be wondering, if it hadn't been for Toriyama's editor and those pesky Goku fan-boys, would the series have ended like that? Talk about a What-If!

Gaiash · Post by **Gaiash** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:44 am

mAcChaos wrote:
What if Buu successfully absorbed Vegetto?
Where's the "what if?" He absorbs Vegito and it's over. It doesn't have much potential for divergence.

Vegetto Buu vs Movie villians, thats where it would lead. Besides I ment as a what if Buu form like in Budokai 2 where there was Cell Buu, Freeza Buu, Teincha Buu and Vegeta Buu. I should have explained what I ment.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:07 am

mAcChaos wrote:I always wanted to see what would happen in the Buu Saga in Future Trunks' timeline when Babidi came looking for Buu's shell.

Wasn't there a part where things fucked up? Vegeta would have been gone so his power wouldn't be used to open up Buu's egg. Kaioshin would visit Trunks and tell him about Babidi's evil plans. Since neither of them like taking risks I think they could have killed Babidi. The only problem would be: Dabura.

The timeline we know changed when Trunks traveled though, so it's easy to assume things changed in Trunks' timeline regarding Buu. If they had difficulties they would have time-traveled again to warn everyone.

My what-if situation is, what would happen if Trunks would go and visit New Namek on Goku's command during his own timeline and use its dragonballs to bring back everyone, including Goku.

ChibiKenji · Post by **ChibiKenji** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:59 am

mAcChaos wrote:Trunks never came back during that time, did he? I thought it was yet to occur.

Trunks was from some seventeen years (not sure of the exact number) in the future. The Buu arc took place seven years after the defeat of Cell, meaning that time had passed in Trunks' timeline well before he travelled back to meet Goku.

The out-of-universe explanation is simply that Toriyama hadn't thought of Buu at the time of the Cyborg/Cell saga, but in-universe possibilities could be the fact that there were many fewer people on Earth in Trunks's timeline (most notably those of high power like Vegeta and Piccolo) meaning Babidi either wouldn't have bothered or might simply have taken Buu's egg elsewhere in the universe in search of energy, or that the Buu arc was another change in the split of the timeline caused by Trunks; maybe Buu wasn't left on Earth in Trunks' world, maybe Babidi never came to Earth to revive Buu, or perhaps either Babidi or Buu simply don't exist in Trunks's timeline.

Ultimately, all we know is that the time occupied by the Buu saga simply didn't contain any real events of note (apart of course, as I said earlier, from the Cyborg attacks) on Trunks' Earth.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:31 am

or perhaps either Babidi or Buu simply don't exist in Trunks's timeline.

They must. Bulma's time-machine can't change the past (not in his own timeline) and Buu was sealed away.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:33 am

Pieter wrote:My what-if situation is, what would happen if Trunks would go and visit New Namek on Goku's command during his own timeline and use its dragonballs to bring back everyone, including Goku.

Goku died of natural causes. Also, the one-year rule might come into effect.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:35 am

Rocketman wrote:
Pieter wrote:My what-if situation is, what would happen if Trunks would go and visit New Namek on Goku's command during his own timeline and use its dragonballs to bring back everyone, including Goku.
Goku died of natural causes. Also, the one-year rule might come into effect.

I forgot that you can't revive people who died from natural causes. Are you sure about this?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:35 am

Pieter wrote:I forgot that you can't revive people who died from natural causes. Are you sure about this?

Hm? Yeah, I'm sure.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:42 am

Rocketman wrote:
Pieter wrote:I forgot that you can't revive people who died from natural causes. Are you sure about this?
Hm? Yeah, I'm sure.

Because of Guru?

King Kai said he was a victim of Frieza and therefore died of a broken heart so maybe that's not considered a natural cause, but we know the point was so that he could be revived by the wish to revive Frieza's victims.

I'd like to know where else it's stated that you can't revive those that died of natural causes. I can remember something like that but I just don't remember from where.

If that's true then you've solved the problem though (I remember VegettoEX couldn't as it was in the ask section of his website). The one year rule would cause trouble because they would again be killed right away, and besides one year on Namek is shorter.

wannywan · Post by **wannywan** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:42 am

Rocketman wrote:
Pieter wrote:I forgot that you can't revive people who died from natural causes. Are you sure about this?
Hm? Yeah, I'm sure.

Yeah, though you can bring them back temporarily if their life was even slightly shortened through the direct acts of others.

ChibiKenji · Post by **ChibiKenji** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:49 am

Pieter wrote:They must. Bulma's time-machine can't change the past (not in his own timeline) and Buu was sealed away.

As far as we know, neither #19 or #20 exist in Trunks' timeline (as we know them, at least), so presumably Trunks' travelling into the past caused them to exist in the main timeline.

I'm not suggesting that Trunks travelling back in time STOPPED Babidi or Buu from existing in his timeline so much as I'm saying there's a possibility that the Bibidi in his timeline might not have had a son, or perhaps never created the monster Buu, meaning that Babidi/Buu's existance in the main timeline would be the same as Cyborg #19 and #20's: a direct result of Trunks's meddling with time.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:05 am

ChibiKenji wrote:
Pieter wrote:They must. Bulma's time-machine can't change the past (not in his own timeline) and Buu was sealed away.
As far as we know, neither #19 or #20 exist in Trunks' timeline (as we know them, at least), so presumably Trunks' travelling into the past caused them to exist in the main timeline.

These changes altered the future of the timeline he created, not the past. He came back 3 years before #17 and #18 attacked for the first time in his own timeline. We can assume that in these 3 years Dr. Gero started doing things diferently and therefore he showed up with #19. We don't know if they exist in Trunks timeline, in both timelines Gero was killed. However, the stuff we are discussing here was where Toriyama was doing weird twists. He said he originally intended 19# and #20 to be the real androids.

I'm not suggesting that Trunks travelling back in time STOPPED Babidi or Buu from existing in his timeline so much as I'm saying there's a possibility that the Bibidi in his timeline might not have had a son, or perhaps never created the monster Buu, meaning that Babidi/Buu's existance in the main timeline would be the same as Cyborg #19 and #20's: a direct result of Trunks's meddling with time.

My point is that Trunks altered the timeline he created himself, but never his own timeline. And besides the changes were all regarding the future (I think). Didn't Babidi, Bibidi and Buu exist millions of years ago?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:11 am

Pieter wrote:Because of Guru?

King Kai said he was a victim of Freeza and therefore died of a broken heart so maybe that's not considered a natural cause, but we know the point was so that he could be revived by the wish to revive Freeza's victims.

That's where it's stated. The loophole was, Freeza slaughtering his children shortened his life, so he got the bit Freeza took from him back.

Even if that loophole applied to Goku, he'd only live for the bit of time that external forces took from him.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:12 pm

Rocketman wrote:Even if that loophole applied to Goku, he'd only live for the bit of time that external forces took from him.

The biggest headache of the Freeza Arc.

If Goku was to be revived like this, he would die in space, unless of course they chose to "move his spirit" on Earth, which would be such a waste of a wish like Yamcha's revival

-Rick

Gaiash · Post by **Gaiash** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:33 pm

Earlier in this post I metioned a what if story of Buu being the hero instead of Goku. I mostly said it because the idea would be amusing but I actually came up with how the story might go. The idea is probably crap but then again it might not be, but it is long.

Bibidi created Majin Buu much later than he orginaly intended to. He sends the warrior to Earth and decides to return after several years to check its progress. Meanwhile on Planet Vegeta Bardock doesn't get the chance to send Kakarotto to Earth and thus our lovable hero Goku was killed along with the rest of the Saiyans. Back on Earth the creature Buu is found by Grandpa Gohan who raises tries to raise him and like Goku Buu is dropped on his head, calms down and is raised to be good. Gohan decides to name him after the word he kept saying when he first found him "Buu". Gohan dies of old age leaving poor Buu all alone, with nothing but his Dragonball as a reminder.

Then Bulma arrives and the adventures of Son Buu begin. Buu manages to wiz past Dragonball quite easily, being able to fly naturaly. Buu beats both Jackie Chun and Tien in the Tenkaichi Budokai and his first real challenge is Piccolo Daimou, but there is only one battle which Buu wins. Chichi never took any interest in Buu so she never married him. Buu ages and looks just like he did as Super Buu, he faces Piccolo in the Tenkaichi Budokai and wins. Thus we move over to Z.

Bibidi decides its time to check up on Buu bringing with him... Majin Raditz. During his battle with Raditz Buu mentions his adventures looking for the Dragonballs which is heard by Vegeta and Nappa. Raditz and Bibidi are killed, Buu still lives. Kami warns them of the Saiyans landing on Earth so Buu and Piccolo train together (Well Buu is alive and Gohan wasn't born). When the Saiyans arrive Piccolo takes on Nappa while Buu goes after Vegeta. Piccolo and Nappa both lose their lives in this battle but Buu suvives and lets Vegeta go.

Heres where it really changes. With Tien, Yamcha and Chaozu still alive they join Buu, Krillin and Bulma as they go to Namek to wish back Kami and their new ally Piccolo. When they arrive on Namek they split up to find the Dragonballs. They find one when they learn about Freeza and Vegeta both landing on Namek. Yamcha decides to protect the first Dragonball and Bulma but he has alittle trouble when Zarbon arrives. Yamcha starts with the upper hand but when Zarbon transforms Yamcha gets his butt handed to him until Vegeta arrives. With Zarbon exausted from fighting Yamcha he is easily killed by the Saiyan Prince. Meanwhile Tien and Chaozu face off against Dodoria and kill him. Buu and Krillin meet Guru who decides to awaken the sleeping powers within Buu, however it will take a while so Krillin takes the Dragonball to Yamcha only to find Vegeta waiting for him. The Ginyu Force arrive, Guldo and Recoome challenge Tien and Chaozu for their Dragonball. Tien and Chaozu both win but then Burter steps in and beats them both. Vegeta and Krillin arrive but don't do that much better, and Buu senses this and leaves before his power was completly unlocked. Buu manages to wipe out the Ginyu Force including Captain Ginyu with no trouble at all. Freeza then steps in and realising how powerfull Buu is decides to skip his other forms and goes straight to full power. The two have a fight similar to Super Saiyan Goku's battle, ending in the planet blowing up with Buu and Freeza on it. Buu learns for the first time about his regenerating powers and heads home.

Apon returning Buu simply gets back to training. Trunks does NOT come back in time and Buu is immune to the virus and manages to beat 19 without trouble. Vegeta feels very proud that he has become a Super Saiyan but he doesn't do too well against 17 and 18 but refuses to let Buu help. Eventually Buu steps in and manages to destroy them both (Sorry Krillin, no wife for you) and 16. What about Cell? Well with no reason for Trunks to come back in time he has no way to get there so we'll be seeing him later.

Of course Majin Buu is our hero so the Buu saga is a miss. Instead we have Janemba and Hirudegarn. Both threats emerge at the same time, and Buu is the only one strong enough to face them. Vegeta decides to try his hand against Janemba while Buu faces Hirudegarn. Vegeta manages to beat Janemba (for now) and goes to aid Buu against Hirudegarn, and together they destroy it. But before they can celebrate Janemba arrives transformed and ready to battle. Buu has learned how to use his original powers now but is unable to catch up with Janemba to either absorb him or turn him into candy due to being so tired from fighting Hirudegarn. Vegeta allows Buu to absorb him thus bringing Vegeta Buu into the battle. Vegeta Buu kills Janemba effortlessly and after that Buu spits Vegeta out. With the earth safe Buu decides its time to rest and moves to a peacefull village where he finds a wife and they have a son who they name... Uub.

Since Piccolo never split with Kami the Black Star Dragonballs were useless. But soon Baby still arrives and takes control of earth and moves into his new home, Vegeta's body. Buu and Uub both face off against Baby and as a team they manage to defeat him. They wish Vegeta back with the Dragonballs and that story is over rather quickly.

Cell finally awakens and since he has the cells of Buu, Janemba, Hirudegarn, Uub and Baby inside him he is a lot stronger than Perfect Cell. While Cell overpowers Buu his imperfect state leaves him with flaws, eventually Buu manages to take advantage of this and kills Cell.

It takes more years before the evil Dragons are awakened by an unimportant traveler who collected the Dragonballs so he could get a date. Buu learns of the Dragons and sets off to detroy them, He kills all but Yi Xing Long. After absorbing the Dragonballs Yi Xing Long blasts Buu into a million pieces. Uub, unaware of his fathers regeneration abilities, uses his full power to try and get revenge but even he loses. Buu senses Uubs determination and sends his very being into his son creating Majuub who kills Yi Xing Long instantly. With the soul of his father within him Uub becomes the protector of Earth, thus ending the tale of Son Buu.