Death Battle: Goku vs Superman 2

[BrolyLSSJ]

The beyonders are only nigh omnipotent heck even pre recton beyonder had his powers taken away by doom only characters that are omnipotent is the TOAA and the presence.

I already showed TOAA not being omni within LT handbook.
Pre-Retcon Beyonder=omnipotent being using PIS+CIS isn't featable.
Beyonders are OMNIPOTENT,OMNIPRESENT AND NIGH-OMNISCIENT.

[VegettoEX]

Come back when you aren't based and know your understanding of debating.

The way you speak to other members is beyond unacceptable and we're not willing to continue having you as a member if this is how you choose to act, and specifically if this is how you choose to end your posts.

You're rude, you use entirely wrong words, and you don't seem to know the meaning of the words you're using. This is not OK.

[dario03]

Gotta love Marvel and its absurdly powerful characters that don't make sense and get changed all the time...
Didn't pre-retcon Beyonder let Doom take his power? I thought he originally was Omni-everything (well except for knowing of the Marvel multiverse) and only had weaknesses because he allowed himself to.
And yeah having the Beyonders not be able to affect time does seem weird since pre-retcon Beyonder did it. But I guess if they retconned it then it makes sense...
And does the Beyonder being a child unit of the Beyonders retcon the incomplete cosmic cube thing? I know the mutant inhuman thing got retconned out but is he just something totally different now or are cosmic cubes Beyonder children?

Oh and to tie this back to DB, I wonder if super runs long enough if they will retcon the whole Universe will be destroyed by Goku And Beerus fighting. Since that shockwave didn't make much sense and won't that make later fights really difficult if the bad guy does want to destroy everything...

[pacz360]

Gotta love Marvel and its absurdly powerful characters that don't make sense and get changed all the time...
Didn't pre-retcon Beyonder let Doom take his power? I thought he originally was Omni-everything and only had weaknesses because he allowed himself to.
And yeah having the Beyonders not be able to affect time does seem weird since pre-retcon Beyonder did it. But I guess if they retconned it then it makes sense...
And does the Beyonder being a child unit of the Beyonders retcon the incomplete cosmic cube thing? I know the mutant inhuman thing got retconned out but is he just something totally different now or are cosmic cubes Beyonder children?

Oh and to tie this back to DB, I wonder if super runs long enough if they will retcon the whole Universe will be destroyed by Goku And Beerus fighting. Since that shockwave didn't make much sense and won't that make later fights really difficult if the bad guy does want to destroy everything...

Eh I'm sure they find way to explain but mainly plot is going tp be the answers for it heck in comics you always have guys not blow up planets and stuff despite their power.

[BrolyLSSJ]

Gotta love Marvel and its absurdly powerful characters that don't make sense and get changed all the time...
Didn't pre-retcon Beyonder let Doom take his power? I thought he originally was Omni-everything (well except for knowing of the Marvel multiverse) and only had weaknesses because he allowed himself to.
And yeah having the Beyonders not be able to affect time does seem weird since pre-retcon Beyonder did it. But I guess if they retconned it then it makes sense...
And does the Beyonder being a child unit of the Beyonders retcon the incomplete cosmic cube thing? I know the mutant inhuman thing got retconned out but is he just something totally different now or are cosmic cubes Beyonder children?

Oh and to tie this back to DB, I wonder if super runs long enough if they will retcon the whole Universe will be destroyed by Goku And Beerus fighting. Since that shockwave didn't make much sense and won't that make later fights really difficult if the bad guy does want to destroy everything...

Both Pre/Post retcon beyonder controlled/traveled time as Pre-retcon knew a timeline to pick doom a new body andPost-Retcon showed it during the Fantastic Four Annual #7 when he was about to send Dr.Doom BEYOND existence but then read stated "You pick this doom from a alt timeline." And then he stated he did and had placed him back which is why I was telling the other guy how PLOTTED it was.

Inhuman Mutant never happened confirmed in the new handbook apparently marvel tried to "Retcon" secret wars 2 by stating that before he went to earth in SW2 he created his own little universe or planet and that he was playing with them.

I also agree because the whole "Universe" feat seems more hype because
1. Physical energy doesn't truly work like that
2. The shockwave didn't even destroy earth despite the waves hitting and effect earth multiple times.
3. The only things busted was a few asteroids and a planet not even the sun went supernova which a supernova=solar system destruction.

[BrolyLSSJ]

Gotta love Marvel and its absurdly powerful characters that don't make sense and get changed all the time...
Didn't pre-retcon Beyonder let Doom take his power? I thought he originally was Omni-everything and only had weaknesses because he allowed himself to.
And yeah having the Beyonders not be able to affect time does seem weird since pre-retcon Beyonder did it. But I guess if they retconned it then it makes sense...
And does the Beyonder being a child unit of the Beyonders retcon the incomplete cosmic cube thing? I know the mutant inhuman thing got retconned out but is he just something totally different now or are cosmic cubes Beyonder children?

Oh and to tie this back to DB, I wonder if super runs long enough if they will retcon the whole Universe will be destroyed by Goku And Beerus fighting. Since that shockwave didn't make much sense and won't that make later fights really difficult if the bad guy does want to destroy everything...

Eh I'm sure they find way to explain but mainly plot is going to be the answers for it heck in comics you always have guys not blow up planets and stuff despite their power.

*Cough: Galactus able to universe bust but loses to beings lesser its called CIS.*

[miguelnuva1]

The beyonders are only nigh omnipotent heck even pre recton beyonder had his powers taken away by doom only characters that are omnipotent is the TOAA and the presence.

I already showed TOAA not being omni within LT handbook.
Pre-Retcon Beyonder=omnipotent being using PIS+CIS isn't featable.
Beyonders are OMNIPOTENT,OMNIPRESENT AND NIGH-OMNISCIENT.

TOAA is Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, name one marvel character that can beat that.

OMNISCIENT is to know everything which Beyonders don't know because Doom took them by surprise.

Omnipresence is to be everywhere at once which the Beyonders are as they handled the Living Tribunal.

Omnipotent- As long as their is nothing they can't do they are this. Due to them not stopping Doom, not being able to stop or alter time and seeming to be under TOAA I'd they their nigh-Omnipotent.

Anyway I'm off topic.

[Sora Saiyan]

I also agree because the whole "Universe" feat seems more hype because
1. Physical energy doesn't truly work like that
2. The shockwave didn't even destroy earth despite the waves hitting and effect earth multiple times.
3. The only things busted was a few asteroids and a planet not even the sun went supernova which a supernova=solar system destruction.

The shockwave caused by there clash doesn't have to make sense to our laws, but it can to DBs. It's still just fiction after all, so its not as simple as saying it doesn't make sense.

1. Physical energy can work like that in DB clearly. They probably amped there punches with Ki.
2. The shockwaves were stated to get stronger the further it traveled.
3. We were told time and time again that the third clash would end the Universe, not the first or 2nd. The first clash didn't do much, the 2nd vaporised a planet, and following how it was stated to work, at that distance at every point of the universe every planet would be vaporised, the 2nd clash also floored Kaoshin. The third clash was cancelled out by Goku, and then later when the Ki clash by Goku and Beerus went off the explosion engulfed the DB universe but luckly Beerus cancelled it out.

We actually have one of the wisest characters in DB stating what would happen to the universe, and in the episode after the narrator states that the universe would be destroyed. I believe the narrator more than anybody to be honest.

[Polyphase Avatron]

All I did was skim the last 3 pages... Just when this thread was finally dying down we're suddenly arguing about Marvel abstracts, then I skip ahead a page or two and people are arguing about the whole Goku/Beerus shockwave business again. Honestly...

If anything actually interesting, new, and relevant comes up, feel free to tell me.

[BrolyLSSJ]

The beyonders are only nigh omnipotent heck even pre recton beyonder had his powers taken away by doom only characters that are omnipotent is the TOAA and the presence.

I already showed TOAA not being omni within LT handbook.
Pre-Retcon Beyonder=omnipotent being using PIS+CIS isn't featable.
Beyonders are OMNIPOTENT,OMNIPRESENT AND NIGH-OMNISCIENT.

TOAA is Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, name one marvel character that can beat that.

OMNISCIENT is to know everything which Beyonders don't know because Doom took them by surprise.

Omnipresence is to be everywhere at once which the Beyonders are as they handled the Living Tribunal.

Omnipotent- As long as their is nothing they can't do they are this. Due to them not stopping Doom, not being able to stop or alter time and seeming to be under TOAA I'd they their nigh-Omnipotent.

Anyway I'm off topic.

Off-Topic:
Stan Lee disregarded SUCH topics and stated its disrespectful.
Jack Kirby is the Nigh-omnipotent Fulcrum
TOAA in even in the earliest HANDBOOKS was not confirmed it's even given that he is believed/probably/apparently.

Omniscience with the beyonders isnt confirmed.....
Omnipresence YES.
Omnipotence and even Tom Brevoort himself stated "It was just for the story.".....

[BrolyLSSJ]

I also agree because the whole "Universe" feat seems more hype because
1. Physical energy doesn't truly work like that
2. The shockwave didn't even destroy earth despite the waves hitting and effect earth multiple times.
3. The only things busted was a few asteroids and a planet not even the sun went supernova which a supernova=solar system destruction.

The shockwave caused by there clash doesn't have to make sense to our laws, but it can to DBs. It's still just fiction after all, so its not as simple as saying it doesn't make sense.

1. Physical energy can work like that in DB clearly. They probably amped there punches with Ki.
2. The shockwaves were stated to get stronger the further it traveled.
3. We were told time and time again that the third clash would end the Universe, not the first or 2nd. The first clash didn't do much, the 2nd vaporised a planet, and following how it was stated to work, at that distance at every point of the universe every planet would be vaporised, the 2nd clash also floored Kaoshin. The third clash was cancelled out by Goku, and then later when the Ki clash by Goku and Beerus went off the explosion engulfed the DB universe but luckly Beerus cancelled it out.

We actually have one of the wisest characters in DB stating what would happen to the universe, and in the episode after the narrator states that the universe would be destroyed. I believe the narrator more than anybody to be honest.

I still think it was hype and just exaggerated....

[Bullza]

I doubt it was, they explained too much about why the Universe didn't explode. They could have said nothing.

[singsing]

Dude, if they're omnipotent, then why are they only nigh-omniscient and get stopped? They're omnipotent, they're all powerful, they can do whatever they want, including becoming fully omniscient. You don't seem to understand the meaning of your words. "True" omnipotence is what omnipotence alone means. You're thinking nigh omnipotence, or close. I don't understand why you can't grasp this concept after being argued with for over 2 pages. And this spawned from my comment saying EGD beats 99% of the DC omniverse, and you linked like a dozen characters. I'm pretty sure (ignoring the fact that EGD can actually beat some if not all of the characters you linked) that a dozen characters make up less than 1% of the DC omniverse, so my point still stands...

And the fact that subsequent statements continuously state that they can destroy the universe leads me to believe that, yea, they can destroy the universe.

[BrolyLSSJ]

Dude, if they're omnipotent, then why are they only nigh-omniscient and get stopped? They're omnipotent, they're all powerful, they can do whatever they want, including becoming fully omniscient. You don't seem to understand the meaning of your words. "True" omnipotence is what omnipotence alone means. You're thinking nigh omnipotence, or close. I don't understand why you can't grasp this concept after being argued with for over 2 pages. And this spawned from my comment saying EGD beats 99% of the DC omniverse, and you linked like a dozen characters. I'm pretty sure (ignoring the fact that EGD can actually beat some if not all of the characters you linked) that a dozen characters make up less than 1% of the DC omniverse, so my point still stands...

And the fact that subsequent statements continuously state that they can destroy the universe leads me to believe that, yea, they can destroy the universe.

1. You need to know what PIS means.
2. You need to know what CIS means.
3. I do know what omnipotence mean just because you are stating i don't "[Insert words]" doesn't make it a fact.
4. TRUE OMNIPOTENCE=ALL 3 aka Omnipotence,Omnipresence, and Omniscience and the Beyonders aren't TRUE OMNIPOTENCE.
5. They have like i replied MULTIPLE TIMES: Omnipotence,Omnipresence, and NIGH-OMNISCIENCE.
6. I understand the actual concept you don't....
7. Arguments i have won with on-panel information.
8. EGD size only busted a universe you know nothing of the series and he gets ROLF stomped by all the beings i listed.
9. Your point isnt just false but seriously its without knowledge of DC itself.
10. Leave the subject alone pal i listed the beings WHICH i know both Demonbane and DC characters and EGD has no feats to put down anyone i listed.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

4. TRUE OMNIPOTENCE=ALL 3 aka Omnipotence,Omnipresence, and Omniscience and the Beyonders aren't TRUE OMNIPOTENCE.

Omnipotence has nothing to do with Omniscience and omnipresence.

[BrolyLSSJ]

4. TRUE OMNIPOTENCE=ALL 3 aka Omnipotence,Omnipresence, and Omniscience and the Beyonders aren't TRUE OMNIPOTENCE.

Omnipotence has nothing to do with Omniscience and omnipresence.

Omnipotence 1
Omnipotence 2
Clearly TRUE omnipotence does thats why the beyonders are known under Omnipotential.
So please before commenting on anything know terms and powers.
om·nip·o·tence
ämˈnipədəns/
noun: omnipotence; plural noun: omnipotences
the quality of having unlimited power.

Beyonders=Infinite power

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Omnipotence 1
Omnipotence 2
Clearly TRUE omnipotence does thats why the beyonders are known under Omnipotential.
So please before commenting on anything know terms and powers.

Omnipotence doesnt have any kind of division such as the fan made up "night-omnipotente" or "Omnipotencial

[BrolyLSSJ]

Omnipotence 1
Omnipotence 2
Clearly TRUE omnipotence does thats why the beyonders are known under Omnipotential.
So please before commenting on anything know terms and powers.

Omnipotence doesnt have any kind of division such as the fan made up "night-omnipotente" or "Omnipotencial

2 wikia > 1 wikipedia.
>Omnipotential Exist
>Nigh-Omnipotence Exist

Example of both
Omnipotential: Michael Demiurgos from DC/Beyonders from Marvel
Nigh-Omnipotence: Spectre from DC/The Living Tribunal from Marvel

therefore they arent "Fan made up" nice try.

[Kamiccolo9]

You do know what "nigh" means, right?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

2 wikia > 1 wikipedia.
>Omnipotential Exist
>Nigh-Omnipotence Exist

Example of both
Omnipotential: Michael Demiurgos from DC/Beyonders from Marvel
Nigh-Omnipotence: Spectre from DC/The Living Tribunal from Marvel

therefore they arent "Fan made up" nice try.

Except that none of them are academic concepts discussed by academics nor created by them, therefore they are made up.