Biggest exageration by fans?

[precita]

Beerus was shown to be a lot more equal with Goku in Super than the movie. In the movie it looked like Beerus was well above and beyond Goku. In Super they looked almost even with Beerus only being slightly stronger.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Well in BOG he beat piccolo with chop sticks making him beating nerfed Z fighters,but still still people saying he's above ssj4 or omega shenron is down right silly. It's a plain bias,vegeta was damaged and tired form fight and even training all day....and he pushed beerus to 10%,meaning beerus is weak as hell next to GT characters. I mean in 1 week he'd be 1 shotted by a goku after a week fo training if ti wasn't for them nerfing goku to pump up beerus.......a new form+training with vegeta+trained by whis+months of training+zenkai form beerus fight=him not even 2x as strong? Yeah....remember namek? 15x stronger in 6 days? YEah Beerus has the fighters nerfed so his sleeping butt isn't surpassed....srry no disrespect as I see u like beerus,but I hate him. But factually he's being over rated,like broly has been in the past when people called him ssj6 teir.[/quote]
It can't be ignored though that it is flat out stated that Beerus and SSJG Goku clashing nearly brought an end to the universe. I understand if you hate the character, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the character's actions. Nothing in GT has been shown to be within the same level of strength as to what Beerus has displayed so far.[/quote]


You can't ignore facts and math for feats,feats mean nothing,especially when perfect cell can do that shit too. The difference is CANOn goku (GT Goku) has control and wouldn't be destroying lives like he did in super. Toei messed up. Also feats mean nothing in DBZ. Seriously BOG had a dinosaur able to dodge Goku after being kicked away from beerus,and people throughout dragonball have done dumb things like hit each other into the ground and made small craters and to top it all off,the new stronger god form was taken down by the equivalent of a stormtrooper's blaster. Feats in dragonball don't mean jack. Otherwise frieza's death ball and roshi's kamehameha>majn vegeta's final explosion

[Lord Beerus]

You can't ignore facts and math for feats,feats mean nothing,especially when perfect cell can do that shit too. The difference is CANOn goku (GT Goku) has control and wouldn't be destroying lives like he did in super. Toei messed up. Also feats mean nothing in DBZ. Seriously BOG had a dinosaur able to dodge Goku after being kicked away from beerus,and people throughout dragonball have done dumb things like hit each other into the ground and made small craters and to top it all off,the new stronger god form was taken down by the equivalent of a stormtrooper's blaster. Feats in dragonball don't mean jack. Otherwise Freeza's death ball and roshi's kamehameha>majn vegeta's final explosion

I'm... really confused by what you're saying. You say feats don't matter, but it's the very feats we see in Dragon Ball that help some fans with the number crunching and math in regards to the power levels of several characters considering the whole concept of power levels were scrapped by Toriyama himself after the Freeza arc.

Anyways, this getting off-topic. So I'm ending the conversation here.

[Doctor.]

To me the biggest exaggeration by fans has got to be the whole "The dub ruined the series and is an absolute insult to Toriyama's work" the just urks me a lot because I see this on youtube watching Jap DBZ.

I think it's a complete insult to Toriyama and to the Dragon Ball fanbase itself, yes, I don't see what's the problem. It didn't ruin the series, but I stand firmly behind the notion that it's an insult to anyone whose a fan of it.

[Lunatic Fringe]

- Any character who can't beat a villain the first try is a loser (which makes no sense since both Goku and Vegeta lose constantly throughout the series)

Any video on YouTube that has Vegeta fighting any form of Freeza, Cell or Majin Boo will have comments like this. Fans still can't get over the fact that Vegeta never killed a main villain, while ignoring the fact that he has killed the most villains in the series.

Yep. A Saibaman, Nappa, Cui, Dodoria, Appule, Zarbon, Guldo, Burter, Recoome, Jeice, #19, Pui Pui.

Not bad, Veggie.

[The Patrolman]

To me the biggest exaggeration by fans has got to be the whole "The dub ruined the series and is an absolute insult to Toriyama's work" the just urks me a lot because I see this on youtube watching Jap DBZ.

I think it's a complete insult to Toriyama and to the Dragon Ball fanbase itself, yes, I don't see what's the problem. It didn't ruin the series, but I stand firmly behind the notion that it's an insult to anyone whose a fan of it.

In your eyes its an insult to me its just complaining. Was the 80's Ninja Turtles an insult to the Mirage Comics? Was the Little Mermaid an insult to the book?

[Kamiccolo9]

To me the biggest exaggeration by fans has got to be the whole "The dub ruined the series and is an absolute insult to Toriyama's work" the just urks me a lot because I see this on youtube watching Jap DBZ.

I think it's a complete insult to Toriyama and to the Dragon Ball fanbase itself, yes, I don't see what's the problem. It didn't ruin the series, but I stand firmly behind the notion that it's an insult to anyone whose a fan of it.

In your eyes its an insult to me its just complaining. Was the 80's Ninja Turtles an insult to the Mirage Comics? Was the Little Mermaid an insult to the book?

No, because those aren't adaptations of the same product.

The Japanese dub of Beast Wars, on the other hand? That is absolutely an insult. It's an abomination. A travesty. I'm tempted to say the same of the English Duel Masters dub, but from what I understand, it's supposed to be an intentional parody or something.

[Doctor.]

To me the biggest exaggeration by fans has got to be the whole "The dub ruined the series and is an absolute insult to Toriyama's work" the just urks me a lot because I see this on youtube watching Jap DBZ.

I think it's a complete insult to Toriyama and to the Dragon Ball fanbase itself, yes, I don't see what's the problem. It didn't ruin the series, but I stand firmly behind the notion that it's an insult to anyone whose a fan of it.

In your eyes its an insult to me its just complaining. Was the 80's Ninja Turtles an insult to the Mirage Comics? Was the Little Mermaid an insult to the book?

I have no idea about the quality of those products in comparison to the original, so I can't comment. But a dub is supposed to stay faithful to the original, in this case the Japanese. It's not supposed to change character personalities, making some caricatures or even completely different characters. It's also not supposed to be responsible for a VERY LARGE amount of misinformation in the fanbase, and also a huge split in the fanbase. The dub doesn't do its job and, as such, it's an insult to the source material.

[The Patrolman]

In your eyes its an insult to me its just complaining. Was the 80's Ninja Turtles an insult to the Mirage Comics? Was the Little Mermaid an insult to the book?[/quote]

No, because those aren't adaptations of the same product.

The Japanese dub of Beast Wars, on the other hand? That is absolutely an insult. It's an abomination. A travesty. I'm tempted to say the same of the English Duel Masters dub, but from what I understand, it's supposed to be an intentional parody or something.

The DBZ anime is an adaptation of the second part of the manga. Even then Toei did animate inconsistencies

Gohan skipping on studying
The Garlic Jr Arc
Goku "dying" on Namek and getting "revived" by the Dragon Balls
5 minutes
King Kai telling Goku that Planet Vegeta was destroyed by their god
Saying that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu


Goku: You're on a whole different level from all the Boos up to now

[precita]

The vast majority of anime dubs in the 90's and very early 2000's were never faithful to the original for any show. That's how American companies viewed anime back then, they needed to adapt them and change things for U.S. audiences.

Standards have changed and views of anime have changed, which is why recent stuff is more accurate.

[Kamiccolo9]

The DBZ anime is an adaptation of the second part of the manga. Even then Toei did animate inconsistencies

Gohan skipping on studying
The Garlic Jr Arc
Goku "dying" on Namek and getting "revived" by the Dragon Balls
5 minutes
King Kai telling Goku that Planet Vegeta was destroyed by their god
Saying that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu


Goku: You're on a whole different level from all the Boos up to now

Not sure about the first part.
The second concerns story quality, which is subjective. I happen to enjoy the Garlic Junior Arc. That's different from an adaptation totally failing it's intended function.
Fans being dumb isn't the show's fault.
Cinematic time is to be expected in any kind of televised adaptation. If anything, that's Toriyama's fault for forcing the anime into that corner.
The anime can't really be held at fault for contradicting things that Toriyama hadn't written yet. Same issue with the whole "dying while dead" thing in the Buu Arc. It's not the anime's fault that Toriyama totally ignored what they put in.
And the last one, while contradictory, has no real affect on the story, and is overall such a minor detail that it honestly seems like you are grasping just bringing it up.

None of these remotely compare to radically changing characterizations, dramatically altering lines, cutting out content and splicing the remaining parts back together piecemeal, drastically changing the tone of the show with the aforementioned lines and a replacement soundtrack, and generally dumbing down the show "to make it more accessible."

The dub wasn't merely insulting to the original; it was insulting to the audience. As an adaptation, it was an abject failure, and it was produced under the premise that its intended audience were idiots who just wouldn't "get" the original. No, I don't feel that it's an exaggeration to say that the early Funimation dub was "bad."

[Gyt Kaliba]

I dunno...honestly, I do feel like how bad the old dub was is at least a little bit exaggerated. I mean, is it terrible? Yeah, it is. But to say it's 100% unwatchable? That's always going to be a matter of opinion. As someone who's watched everything in Japanese at least once, I'm still capable of making it through the English version when needed. It's more painful than before, but still more tan doable. It's still a lot easier for me to take than some other products that I just can't get through no matter how hard I try.

And at this point, the old dub is the old dub. It is what it is, a relic of it's time, and still something that a lot of people became fans from. No matter how prevalent it is, it still doesn't erase the original version from existing or anything. So long as they're not a jerk to fans of the original version, then there's nothing really wrong with someone liking the dub, 'bad' or not.

[fadeddreams5]

If we're talking about success here, One Piece is.

I know the One Piece manga is far more successful than Dragon Ball, but is the franchise as a whole (globally)? Or even the anime? The only anime-related franchise I can see bigger than it is Pokemon (by miles, at that).

I think it's a complete insult to Toriyama and to the Dragon Ball fanbase itself, yes, I don't see what's the problem. It didn't ruin the series, but I stand firmly behind the notion that it's an insult to anyone whose a fan of it.

Just the change in dialogue is an insult to Toriyama's work. Don't see how it's an insult to the fanbase though, considering many got into the series because of it in the first place. =P

[Kamiccolo9]

I dunno...honestly, I do feel like how bad the old dub was is at least a little bit exaggerated. I mean, is it terrible? Yeah, it is. But to say it's 100% unwatchable? That's always going to be a matter of opinion. As someone who's watched everything in Japanese at least once, I'm still capable of making it through the English version when needed. It's more painful than before, but still more tan doable. It's still a lot easier for me to take than some other products that I just can't get through no matter how hard I try.

And at this point, the old dub is the old dub. It is what it is, a relic of it's time, and still something that a lot of people became fans from. No matter how prevalent it is, it still doesn't erase the original version from existing or anything. So long as they're not a jerk to fans of the original version, then there's nothing really wrong with someone liking the dub, 'bad' or not.

I never said it's unwatchable.

But a poorly done, insulting train wreck, that was presented the first experience to a huge number of people in an influential area of the world? That is most definitely fair to claim. I'd say it's comparable to the Godzilla dubs. The really bad ones that are so depressingly awful that you can't help but enjoy them. As I see it, defending the Funimation dub is like defending the changes made to The Return of Godzilla, in which they turned a genuine Soviet hero into a martyred terrorist.

[Doctor.]

I know the One Piece manga is far more successful than Dragon Ball, but is the franchise as a whole (globally)? Or even the anime? The only anime-related franchise I can see bigger than it is Pokemon (by miles, at that).

Yes it is. One Piece films make more money in Japan alone than Dragon Ball films do in the entire world. That should tell you how popular it is. Even if it's not as popular outside of the Japan, the fact that it's so RIDICULOUSLY above DB in Japan speaks for itself.

Just the change in dialogue is an insult to Toriyama's work. Don't see how it's an insult to the fanbase though, considering many got into the series because of it in the first place. =P

Fine, it's an insult to any fan who didn't grow up on the dub.

I dunno...honestly, I do feel like how bad the old dub was is at least a little bit exaggerated. I mean, is it terrible? Yeah, it is. But to say it's 100% unwatchable? That's always going to be a matter of opinion. As someone who's watched everything in Japanese at least once, I'm still capable of making it through the English version when needed. It's more painful than before, but still more tan doable. It's still a lot easier for me to take than some other products that I just can't get through no matter how hard I try.

I honestly think it's unwatchable. I can't stand one second of it.

[Kamiccolo9]

I grew up on the dub, and I'm still insulted.

The idea that American kids are just to fragile too handle serious subject matter, and are just too darned immature to watch a show unless it has blaring BADASS music playing at all times is very insulting.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Personally, I think you're exaggerating the exaggeration. All three examples you've given (well, two of them, minus the Genki-Dama translation) are... well, valid. And totally fine.

Those aren't the things people like me fight against. It's the half-translations, it's the still-in-Japanese-but-it's-OK-since-FUNimation-did-it, and it's the bat-shit-outta-left-field stuff. The names were the least of the dub's problems.

I didn't say you do that. I have actually had "debates" (if you want to call them that) with people who swore up and down that "Krillin," "Saiyan," and most of the FUNimation translations were wrong. My point is that saying a Japanese-sounding word like "Kuririn" in the middle of an English sentence is jarring and is a bit of a tongue twister, so they adapted it to Krillin, the same way Batman is adapted to "Battoman" in Japanese to flow with the Japanese language. But no, of course, it needs to be "Kuririn" and "Sciya-jin" and "Bejita" and whanot. If you say "So I was coming home from the store and on my TV, there's Kuririn getting stabbed by Freeza (Foo-ree-zah)," it really sounds kind of ridiculous. Obviously in Japanese these names roll off the tongue just fine and are natural-sounding, but for English-speaking audiences, that's simply not the case. Hence the adaptations to "Krillin." But no, of course I'm the one who's wrong and they should have left the names just the way they were. And they shouldn't have touched the "Genki Dama" or "Makankosappo" or "Kikoho" even though they can be translated. Why didn't they just leave the whole thing in Japanese?

Anyway, I wasn't directing this at anyone in particular; the thread is about the fans' exaggerations, not Kanzenshuu members' exaggerations. I hold the Kanzenshuu fanbase above most of the things that are in this thread.

I love you and I agree with you, but using Romanizations of Japanese Stuff like Street Fighter, while not undermining your point, is a bit...wrong. Street Fighter is Street Fighter in Japanese but just written in Katakana. Its not "Sutorito Faita". However I hate weaboos so you are right. I would hate to see someone use moronic Romanizations.


I massively agree with everything else,GO BRO!

[precita]

But a poorly done, insulting train wreck, that was presented the first experience to a huge number of people in an influential area of the world? That is most definitely fair to claim. I'd say it's comparable to the Godzilla dubs. The really bad ones that are so depressingly awful that you can't help but enjoy them. As I see it, defending the Funimation dub is like defending the changes made to The Return of Godzilla, in which they turned a genuine Soviet hero into a martyred terrorist.

Outside of the handling of Freeza and some blatant fact errors (like Bulma saying she knew Goku since he was 5, etc), what exactly do you think makes it such an insulting train wreck? The music makes no difference now since you can watch the dub with the original score.

The core stories, characters, and plots are exactly the same. The voice actors all dramatically improved since they started. The show was never going to be a word to word translation of the Japanese scripts.

[Doctor.]

The characters are not the same. Goku's character was butchered, and God knows who else was too.

[precita]

The characters are not the same. Goku's character was butchered, and God knows who else was too.

He's more heroic in the dub, the rest of his character is still more or less the same. He loves to fight, he's naive/clueless/unaware of the world around him, his actions are the same, etc.

Also most of Goku's superhero traits in the dub are exaggerated by fans.