With potentially a second Prince of all Saiyans if Uni 6 Planet Vegeta is a kingdom like Uni 7's was. :3soulnova wrote:And not only that... they would end up in an universe with living saiyans.FoolsGil wrote:Read the latest chapter. If Goku and Vegeta lose, there would be access to all new adventures
That's extremely convoluted and not efficient at all, are we supposed to take that seriously?ekrolo2 wrote:Essentially yes, if the heroes failed at any point after Namek they'd have just been wished back and gotten infinite do-overs. There is no tension knowing they've got connections in the after life and in the living realm both of which they can abuse to ultimately win in the end. That's why the movie should've had Namek get destroyed which easily could've been done by having Freeza just use the Earth DBs to teleport him to Namek, destroy it then have Sorbet wish him back to Earth.
You're being willfully ignorant of the fact King Kai can contact New Namek (he knows where it is now after he helped Goku find it) at which point he can basically call on them to revive everyone if shit goes badly. The Namekian balls have no limits at all, the good guys can infinitely keep coming back as long as New Namek is in one piece. Sorry for thinking about shit when watching fiction but when the characters are being not willfully but AGGRESSIVELY written as complete, fucking morons which is the case in the Cell Saga I've got a hard time swallowing it.alakazam^ wrote:That's extremely convoluted and not efficient at all, are we supposed to take that seriously?ekrolo2 wrote:Essentially yes, if the heroes failed at any point after Namek they'd have just been wished back and gotten infinite do-overs. There is no tension knowing they've got connections in the after life and in the living realm both of which they can abuse to ultimately win in the end. That's why the movie should've had Namek get destroyed which easily could've been done by having Freeza just use the Earth DBs to teleport him to Namek, destroy it then have Sorbet wish him back to Earth.
That's the problem with you guys that see everything in a 1+1=2 kind of way. Everything has to make sense, everything has to have logic, everything needs a purpose. That's not how life works and characters are allowed to be characters. I know it seems that way but they can't abuse everything they want, Goku didn't teleport once to Earth after Cell and before Boo, he needed special authorization. Both Dragon Balls set have time limits so they can't be abused as well, specially not in the way you're suggesting in an emergency: they use them for a total of 5 or 6 wishes and that's it, if the threat isn't dealt with, they're screwed. Whis isn't abusable at all, he does what he wants and his time reversion only has a 3 minute window, that's extremely narrow to the point that, in most situations, it's pointless as well.
The guys at Earth could have fend off Freeza's army in no time but they choose not to, in order to gain time. This gave them a harder time than they are used to because several ants are harder to deal with if you're restraining yourself. Besides, Kamesennin and Tenshinhan were struggling as is. It was not pointless because it served their purpose.
We know that Goku and Vegeta are going to win. They are still alive at the end of DBZ and Super is set before the final chapter/episode of DBZ.FoolsGil wrote:Read the latest chapter. If Goku and Vegeta lose, there would be access to all new adventures
Losing doesn't mean they'll die. The tournament rules specifically state that killing is against the rules. Even if they died, they could be revived.Hellspawn28 wrote:We know that Goku and Vegeta are going to win. They are still alive at the end of DBZ and Super is set before the final chapter/episode of DBZ.FoolsGil wrote:Read the latest chapter. If Goku and Vegeta lose, there would be access to all new adventures
I'm not being ignorant to the fact that both Dragon Ball sets take several months to recharge, in which case, if people are dead, they stay dead. Besides, New Namek is only safe because, apparently, it's well hidden. If Freeza found it, it would cease to exist as easily as that.ekrolo2 wrote:You're being willfully ignorant of the fact King Kai can contact New Namek (he knows where it is now after he helped Goku find it) at which point he can basically call on them to revive everyone if shit goes badly. The Namekian balls have no limits at all, the good guys can infinitely keep coming back as long as New Namek is in one piece. Sorry for thinking about shit when watching fiction but when the characters are being not willfully but AGGRESSIVELY written as complete, fucking morons which is the case in the Cell Saga I've got a hard time swallowing it.
Roshi struggling is fine, he's basically an Earth ant and old, everyone else getting tired because they've got to pull their punches makes no sense. Firstly, they never had any qualms about straight up murdering their enemies before when the planet or they were threatened and Piccolo, who's at least Cell Jr level getting tired from HOLDING BACK so a Zarbon level mook can fight him is beyond stupid.
alakazam^ wrote:I'm not being ignorant to the fact that both Dragon Ball sets take several months to recharge, in which case, if people are dead, they stay dead. Besides, New Namek is only safe because, apparently, it's well hidden. If Freeza found it, it would cease to exist as easily as that.ekrolo2 wrote:You're being willfully ignorant of the fact King Kai can contact New Namek (he knows where it is now after he helped Goku find it) at which point he can basically call on them to revive everyone if shit goes badly. The Namekian balls have no limits at all, the good guys can infinitely keep coming back as long as New Namek is in one piece. Sorry for thinking about shit when watching fiction but when the characters are being not willfully but AGGRESSIVELY written as complete, fucking morons which is the case in the Cell Saga I've got a hard time swallowing it.
Roshi struggling is fine, he's basically an Earth ant and old, everyone else getting tired because they've got to pull their punches makes no sense. Firstly, they never had any qualms about straight up murdering their enemies before when the planet or they were threatened and Piccolo, who's at least Cell Jr level getting tired from HOLDING BACK so a Zarbon level mook can fight him is beyond stupid.
Oh ok, so you have a hard time swallowing Kuririn not killing Freeza with his Taiyouken-Kienzan combo in Namek, right? Yeah, people would really love for the arc to have gone that way.
It makes sense, because they didn't want to finish them off quickly, that's the whole point. And I'd argue both Kuririn and Tenshinhan represented well their strength since they're not even above the Ginyu Tokusentai. Piccolo wasn't shown to be tired, he only struggled, which isn't saying much since he was faring well anyways, with Shisami, who isn't Zarbon-level, he's Zarbon-rank.
They can't do anything if their planet or their maker gets blown up. I get what you're trying to say but there are lots of ways to render the Dragon Balls null, you are just being biased.ekrolo2 wrote:Except they don't stay dead for long. If fucking Shenron can revive Freeza who'd been dead for 20 years I seriously doubt a few extra months would be too taxing for Porunga to bring back the three relevant people at a time. The relevant people who'd be able to train in Otherworld and get stronger in the mean time. And that's precisely my point, Namek should've have fucked the hell off in F for anything to matter. It makes things to easy.
The Other World has rules, as you know, and one little planet is of no concern to them. There's no timeline being annihilated at all. And characters are allowed to think for themselves, they don't know what they don't know and a random guy telling them there's a future threat coming that killed them all does not equal knowing.ekrolo2 wrote:Krillin not killing Freeza is one thing, an entire timeline being annihilated by 17 and 18 because Goku and King Kai or ANYONE who died couldn't be asked to do anything from the afterlife is entirely another. The Future Trunks timeline cannot and should not have gone the way it did. It only did because everyone post Namek is a acting like a prick and moron. Hell, even the present day saga only happens because everyone goes along with Goku's idea for absolutely no reason at all, especially the people who shouldn't be okay with it at all like Gohan, Krillin and especially Piccolo.
Ok, you're just being way biased, did you not watch the movie and saw their goal was to buy time? How can they buy time if they end the fight quickly, especially if that means that next they get killed by Freeza? C'mon, think.ekrolo2 wrote:Ginyu is still leaps and bounds above the mooks. Once Roshi can kick their asses, Krillin and Tenshinhan should be able to with absolute ease. Hell, the two of them powering up would be enough to blow away hundreds of the bastards without killing them. If Shisami is really that strong, Sorbet has no reason to bring back Freeza, he's Zarbon level. A guy Piccolo shouldn't be struggling with at all, he should be one shotting him no problemo.
it always did, right?
I think the 5th fighter and all 5 Champa fighters will already appear next chapter, and the fight will begin in the chapter after that. That's about 8 weeks for the F arc to end.So... when we get to the Universe 6 arc in the anime, how far along do you think the manga will be? Maybe before the first fight?
That would be great! And would pretty much help in power level discussions.Pannaliciour wrote:Maybe there is some.kind of vegetto team Champa (potara fusion) this fusion doesn't end.
This manga is still going to give us spoilers till we get to the U6 Arc? Dang it.Sandubadear wrote:I think the 5th fighter and all 5 Champa fighters will already appear next chapter, and the fight will begin in the chapter after that. That's about 8 episodes for the F arc to end.
I have no idea about potential breaks or anything either, but we have a potential tv schedule for up to Episode 23. If the respective image is real and the partial title is accurate, it sounds like Goku and Freeza won't even be fighting before at least #24, which should air on 12/20/2015. With the way the Super Saiyan God vs. Beerus fight was extended, I feel like we may head into February for the Golden Freeza Arc before even counting breaks or bridge content. That could mean we have a shot at getting another chapter beyond what was expected out of the manga before the Champa/Super DB/Universe 6 Arc starts, maybe two if there is a break or another ~4 episode bridge,gogeta1231 wrote:Well I'm not too sure if/ how many weeks off does Toei Animation take off during Christmas, judging by the pace we are going at, RoF looks like it will wrap up mid-end of January. Going by that we have 2 more chapters left before Super starts the Champa Arc. Although, this is not considering the potential bridge arc we may have between RoF and the Champa arc, which may delay the Champa Arc to mid February. If we go by that we may have 3 chapters of the manga. Now the next chapter could be the test, and if someone fails showing the needed replacements, showing Zuno next chapter, potentially and also the revealing of the 5th fighter, which could also be delayed until the following chapter. The next chapter could also show Champa's fighters. The chapter after that could show the first fight of the tournament for the first half, and then switching to Bulma talking to Zuno. The chapter after that could be either finishing off the first fight or an intermission. All of this is just pure speculation on my part.
It will probably end in January as we have 5 sundays in that month.TheDevilsCorpse wrote: I have no idea about potential breaks or anything either, but we have a potential tv schedule for up to Episode 23. If the respective image is real and the partial title is accurate, it sounds like Goku and Freeza won't even be fighting before at least #24, which should air on 12/20/2015. With the way the Super Saiyan God vs. Beerus fight was extended, I feel like we may head into February for the Golden Freeza Arc before even counting breaks or bridge content. That could mean we have a shot at getting another chapter beyond what was expected out of the manga before the Champa/Super DB/Universe 6 Arc starts, maybe two if there is a break or another ~4 episode bridge,
So, should we go and bitch around that Gohan never got a chance to be useful after Namek?ekrolo2 wrote:Essentially yes, if the heroes failed at any point after Namek they'd have just been wished back and gotten infinite do-overs. There is no tension knowing they've got connections in the after life and in the living realm both of which they can abuse to ultimately win in the end. That's why the movie should've had Namek get destroyed which easily could've been done by having Freeza just use the Earth DBs to teleport him to Namek, destroy it then have Sorbet wish him back to Earth.
Dragon Balls or not, if Freeza was the only one left and Goku & Vegeta hadn't returned, he would have killed everyone.dbzfan7 wrote:Buying time by beating down soldiers and Gohan like a moron putting down Shisami. Brilliant. All in a big time waste that even Freeza knew was pointless. I highly doubt Freeza would have done anything anyway's since just like when he returned last time, he won't be satisfied til he kills Goku himself. Any problem that befalls the earth, Dragon Balls.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
What does that have to do with the Namekian Dragon Balls giving everyone an auto-win guarantee?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:So, should we go and bitch around that Gohan never got a chance to be useful after Namek?ekrolo2 wrote:Essentially yes, if the heroes failed at any point after Namek they'd have just been wished back and gotten infinite do-overs. There is no tension knowing they've got connections in the after life and in the living realm both of which they can abuse to ultimately win in the end. That's why the movie should've had Namek get destroyed which easily could've been done by having Freeza just use the Earth DBs to teleport him to Namek, destroy it then have Sorbet wish him back to Earth.
Dragon Balls or not, if Freeza was the only one left and Goku & Vegeta hadn't returned, he would have killed everyone.[/quote][/quote]dbzfan7 wrote:Buying time by beating down soldiers and Gohan like a moron putting down Shisami. Brilliant. All in a big time waste that even Freeza knew was pointless. I highly doubt Freeza would have done anything anyway's since just like when he returned last time, he won't be satisfied til he kills Goku himself. Any problem that befalls the earth, Dragon Balls.
Oh no they go to a lovely place for a brief moment that let's them all keep their bodies til their wished back anyways. What a horrible fate.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Dragon Balls or not, if Freeza was the only one left and Goku & Vegeta hadn't returned, he would have killed everyone.dbzfan7 wrote:Buying time by beating down soldiers and Gohan like a moron putting down Shisami. Brilliant. All in a big time waste that even Freeza knew was pointless. I highly doubt Freeza would have done anything anyway's since just like when he returned last time, he won't be satisfied til he kills Goku himself. Any problem that befalls the earth, Dragon Balls.
But... if Freeza kills everyone who wishes them back to life?dbzfan7 wrote:Oh no they go to a lovely place for a brief moment that let's them all keep their bodies til their wished back anyways. What a horrible fate.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Dragon Balls or not, if Freeza was the only one left and Goku & Vegeta hadn't returned, he would have killed everyone.dbzfan7 wrote:Buying time by beating down soldiers and Gohan like a moron putting down Shisami. Brilliant. All in a big time waste that even Freeza knew was pointless. I highly doubt Freeza would have done anything anyway's since just like when he returned last time, he won't be satisfied til he kills Goku himself. Any problem that befalls the earth, Dragon Balls.
I asked dbzfan7 who said that Gohan & co. didn't do anything useful why this was the case, and your answer was because they have the Namekian DBs. Why wouldn't this apply for previous events?ekrolo2 wrote:What does that have to do with the Namekian Dragon Balls giving everyone an auto-win guarantee?
So, you are suggesting that leaving everyone die just because they can bring them back is fine? Well, I'm not gonna talk about what I think of this opinion, but the main good guys in the series don't agree with this. They only do this when there is no other choice, and they don't feel good when this happens.dbzfan7 wrote:Oh no they go to a lovely place for a brief moment that let's them all keep their bodies til their wished back anyways. What a horrible fate.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
How about that telepathic god who they can ask to contact the nameks, and then have him do it. Or have Kibitoshin go to the nameks to do it. As long as they are around, they can get back easily.Lord Beerus wrote:But... if Freeza kills everyone who wishes them back to life?dbzfan7 wrote:Oh no they go to a lovely place for a brief moment that let's them all keep their bodies til their wished back anyways. What a horrible fate.
