Reasons Hero's legacy not canon to GT

[GTX]

The reasons
1. the cemetery and big grave of goku eventhough Goku is not dead so nothing inside it.
2. in hero legacy raw (japan) pan is stated as her grandmother of goku jr
in GT Pan raw ( japan ) is stated as his GREAT GREAT grandmother of goku jr
3. it's filler special that aired almost a year before the ending
4. there is no statement of the last 2 saga after baby
5. In a peace time actually there are a lot of threat the armagedon, the super 17 saga and dragon saga

Any of you have any other reason for hero's legacy is contradicting GT let's discuss it.

[Hitiro]

1. This is not a legit reason. In the real world there are people who go missing that are given graves despite not knowing what happened to the person. So there is no reason why Goku wouldn't get given a grave after being missing for 50-100 years.
2. I don't know about these because I've never bothered to look at the raws.
3. It is hardly almost a year. It's closer to half a year than a year. This also doesn't really constitute as a reason really.
4. Why would it need a statement of the last 2 saga after Bebi? These events are taking place 100 years after the events of GT anyway so it's not like they need a mention.
5. I don't understand your point. Hero's legacy takes place 100 years into the future. What does that have to do with Super 17 or the Dragon saga?

I mean if you want to argue point 3 and 4 then GT should not be canon either. Because for point 3 there is also the case that GT aired 15+ years before Super. And for point 4 there are no statements about the Super in GT either. So effectively 2 of your 5 points would also point to GT not being canon.

[B]

You can't definitively say Goku was or wasn't dead at the end of GT.

[Hitiro]

You can't definitively say Goku was or wasn't dead at the end of GT.

That's true. But in missing person cases you can't definitively say the person missing is dead or not yet people still produce graves for their loved ones after a period of time has passed. Sure in most cases the person is more than likely dead after they've gone missing but that isn't always the case.

[B]

Oh, that was aimed at GTX. I generally agree with all of your points.

[GTX]

1. This is not a legit reason. In the real world there are people who go missing that are given graves despite not knowing what happened to the person. So there is no reason why Goku wouldn't get given a grave after being missing for 50-100 years.
2. I don't know about these because I've never bothered to look at the raws.
3. It is hardly almost a year. It's closer to half a year than a year. This also doesn't really constitute as a reason really.
4. Why would it need a statement of the last 2 saga after Bebi? These events are taking place 100 years after the events of GT anyway so it's not like they need a mention.
5. I don't understand your point. Hero's legacy takes place 100 years into the future. What does that have to do with Super 17 or the Dragon saga?

1. nobody paying respect and pray to empty grave and this is very big grave and gravestone and it's very stupid nobody do this as far as normal human do. They made altar or just photo. If youe
2.in gt he called as hi hi bachan mean great great grand mother. in raw legacy he is called just pan baa chan. Even wikia state pan as her grandmother in legacy hero but his great great grand mother in GT.
3. half a year you mean half year? it's actually aired 8 month at least before the ending. it's aired as filler in march 1997 GT is ending in november 1997
4. it less than 100 years nobody state it's above 100 years. It need to be mentioned because it's important arc
5. wrong it takes place less than 100 years. it stated as NEARLY. It said they have peace after that. i see no peace after baby defeat after baby defeat tomorow or few day afte it is an armagedon to earth and Piccolo sacrifiction. continued by super 17 and dragon saga. The statement long peace happened after the dead of baby is total mistake.

You can't definitively say Goku was or wasn't dead at the end of GT.

No halo. HAlo always present in GT especially the most important moment when it to be shown and nobody think goku is dead even chichi. He think goku just traveling. So nobody see halo in goku's head. So it mean goku never dead in GT

If you can give me a link of news where there is cases people make that big grave and gravestone in normal cemetery with literally nothing inside of it and they daily do pray and pay respect there for their family. I will consider to erase it the first reason.

[Hitiro]

1. nobody paying respect and pray to empty grave and it's very stupid nobody do this as far as normal human do. They made altar or just photo
2.in gt he called as hi hi bachan mean great great grand mother. in raw he is called just pan baa chan
3. half a year you mean half year? it's actually aired 8 month at least before the ending. it's aired as filler in march 1997 GT is ending in november 1997
4. it less than 100 years nobody state it's above 100 years. It need to be mentioned because ut's clearle
5. wrong it takes place less than 100 years. it stated as NEARLY. It said they have peace after that. i see no peace after hero legacy event. After baby defeat tomorow of it is an armagedon to earth and Piccolo sacrifiction

1. Uh, yes people do this in real life. So you're calling people who do it in real life stupid?

2. As I said, I haven't seen the raws so I don't know how reliable this is. In the other thread you've made a lot of accusations that were simply untrue so I would honestly like some proof of this at least. But it is not uncommon for people to shorten a family position for ease of use. It is easier to say Ba-chan than say Hi Hi Ba-chan all the time.

3. Like I said, it is closer to half a year than a year. 8 months is closer to 6 than it is to 12. To reach 12 you need to add 4. To reach 6 you only need remove 2. Hence why I said it is closer to half a year.

4. The synopsis states 100 years, you can check it on this site. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/ As it says "One hundred years after Dragon Ball GT, the only surviving character is Pan, who is now an old grandma. After Pan falls ill, Goku Jr. ventures out to Mt. Paozu to find the Dragon Balls. Along with his school friend Pack, he must face evil and his own fears, while learning how to be brave and courageous like his namesake!"

5. Please correct your sentence. It isn't understandable. I assume you're saying there was peace during the 100 years but the events of Super 17 and the Dragon Saga take place so that is incorrect? The actual dialogue does not say that the peace remained for 100 years. Only that peace was restored after the death of Bebi and that they celebrated that day. It gave no indication of how long that peace lasted. So there is really nothing wrong with what it said Also, it did say 100 years had passed since then. http://puu.sh/lyDPa/554e2eab36.jpg So again, it is something you aren't reliable on.

[GTX]

1. nobody paying respect and pray to empty grave and it's very stupid nobody do this as far as normal human do. They made altar or just photo
2.in gt he called as hi hi bachan mean great great grand mother. in raw he is called just pan baa chan
3. half a year you mean half year? it's actually aired 8 month at least before the ending. it's aired as filler in march 1997 GT is ending in november 1997
4. it less than 100 years nobody state it's above 100 years. It need to be mentioned because ut's clearle
5. wrong it takes place less than 100 years. it stated as NEARLY. It said they have peace after that. i see no peace after hero legacy event. After baby defeat tomorow of it is an armagedon to earth and Piccolo sacrifiction

1. Uh, yes people do this in real life. So you're calling people who do it in real life stupid?

2. As I said, I haven't seen the raws so I don't know how reliable this is. In the other thread you've made a lot of accusations that were simply untrue so I would honestly like some proof of this at least. But it is not uncommon for people to shorten a family position for ease of use. It is easier to say Ba-chan than say Hi Hi Ba-chan all the time.

3. Like I said, it is closer to half a year than a year. 8 months is closer to 6 than it is to 12. To reach 12 you need to add 4. To reach 6 you only need remove 2. Hence why I said it is closer to half a year.

4. The synopsis states 100 years, you can check it on this site. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/ As it says "One hundred years after Dragon Ball GT, the only surviving character is Pan, who is now an old grandma. After Pan falls ill, Goku Jr. ventures out to Mt. Paozu to find the Dragon Balls. Along with his school friend Pack, he must face evil and his own fears, while learning how to be brave and courageous like his namesake!"

5. Please correct your sentence. It isn't understandable. I assume you're saying there was peace during the 100 years but the events of Super 17 and the Dragon Saga take place so that is incorrect? The actual dialogue does not say that the peace remained for 100 years. Only that peace was restored after the death of Bebi and that they celebrated that day. It gave no indication of how long that peace lasted. So there is really nothing wrong with what it said Also, it did say 100 years had passed since then. http://puu.sh/lyDPa/554e2eab36.jpg So again, it is something you aren't reliable on.

I don't need a fallacy assumption it's very childish prove me with link. so i can verify it. Even asian has no such culture to do that because it can get you in jail furthermore it's very rude because making grave even
2. i actually true in the last thread but you're not thinkin in big picture and interested in your fallacy assumption
4. well in dub it say clearly NEARLY i think you don't watch the movie watched. IT stated as NEARLY 100 year has passed after. Probably the sub is wrong in the dub it said nearly.
5. What?i will check to confirm it later i sleepy.

Well actually it's enough for me to prove it's stated as grand mother in japan and great
I think you need to watch the series first because it clear stated in the dub and the raw.

because i still have good shot in grand mother statement and the grave.
I don't like debating without proof i already state my proof. but you don't.

[Hellspawn28]

The reasons
1. the cemetery and big grave of goku eventhough Goku is not dead so nothing inside it.
2. in hero legacy raw (japan) pan is stated as her grandmother of goku jr
in GT Pan raw ( japan ) is stated as his GREAT GREAT grandmother of goku jr
3. it's filler special that aired almost a year before the ending
4. there is no statement of the last 2 saga after baby
5. In a peace time actually there are a lot of threat the armagedon, the super 17 saga and dragon saga

Any of you have any other reason for hero's legacy is contradicting GT let's discuss it.

1. They probably thought Goku died over the years since he never came back. So a grave was made to keep the memories of him and the respect of him to be around after a century later.
3, 4 and 5 - The TV special was airing when the last two sagas where being written. They probably didn't want to give away spoilers for future episodes.

Heroes Legacy is set right after before the final episode of GT. The final episode of GT helps explain things better in Heroes Legacy since it can explain why Goku is able to meet up with Goku Jr. seeing that Goku just return back to Earth after a century later. Goku may be a spirit that exist in the Dragon Balls now since that can explain why he has no halo on his head. Goku probably died or was put in a coma after Super Yi Xing Long's attack and Shenron made a deal via telepathy to go with Shenron, so that Goku can help restore the Dragon Balls. Goku's pure hearted nature help restore the Dragon Balls back to normal when they went inside his body.

[Darkprince410]

I don't need a fallacy assumption it's very childish prove me with link. so i can verify it. Even asian has no such culture to do that because it can get you in jail furthermore it's very rude because making grave even
2. i actually true in the last thread but you're not thinkin in big picture and interested in your fallacy assumption
4. well in dub it say clearly NEARLY i think you don't watch the movie watched. IT stated as NEARLY 100 year has passed after
5. What?

I think you need to watch the series first because it clear stated in the dub and the raw.

1) First of all, you are trying to place real world restrictions on a fantasy world. What might not be practiced by asian cultures in the real world can still be practiced there, because there is no Asia. Besides, even in the real world, it is legal to do such things, and happens all the time.

2) Him shortening the name he gives her doesn't automatically make the special wrong. Personally speaking, I had a great aunt (my grandmother's sister) who I referred to as "aunt" because it was much easier and simpler to call her that rather than "great aunt" all the time.

4) Why is that an issue? It's still, in the grand scheme of things, basically 100 years after. Nothing false or incorrect about that at all.

Besides, as mentioned in the other topic, given that Goku, when he's shown interacting with Goku Jr. in the special, is shown without his halo, that supports that it ties in with the ending of GT. The cemetery aspect of it ends up being irrelevant at that point, because that shows that he's not dead in normal Dragon Ball terms. That still does not mean in the slightest that they (his family) didn't decide to build a memorial for him, given that he's been gone for several years, and it's not like they knew what happened to him, so they could have just as easily assumed he was dead.

[GTX]

The reasons
1. the cemetery and big grave of goku eventhough Goku is not dead so nothing inside it.
2. in hero legacy raw (japan) pan is stated as her grandmother of goku jr
in GT Pan raw ( japan ) is stated as his GREAT GREAT grandmother of goku jr
3. it's filler special that aired almost a year before the ending
4. there is no statement of the last 2 saga after baby
5. In a peace time actually there are a lot of threat the armagedon, the super 17 saga and dragon saga

Any of you have any other reason for hero's legacy is contradicting GT let's discuss it.

1. They probably thought Goku died over the years since he never came back. So a grave was made to keep the memories of him and the respect of him to be around after a century later.
3, 4 and 5 - The TV special was airing when the last two sagas where being written. They probably didn't want to give away spoilers for future episodes.

Heroes Legacy is set right after before the final episode of GT. The final episode of GT helps explain things better in Heroes Legacy since it can explain why Goku is able to meet up with Goku Jr. seeing that Goku just return back to Earth after a century later. Goku may be a spirit that exist in the Dragon Balls now since that can explain why he has no halo on his head. Goku probably died or was put in a coma after Super Yi Xing Long's attack and Shenron made a deal via telepathy to go with Shenron, so that Goku can help restore the Dragon Balls. Goku's pure hearted nature help restore the Dragon Balls back to normal when they went inside his body.

1.I don't want to debate without proof. I state my reason 1. it can get you to jail 2 stupid reasoning considered pan and goku is at the same age 3 nobody do this usually just altar bring clear link od news so i can verify it.
3,4,5 as i remembered there is statement there are long peace after baby saga but straight after baby saga dead there are armagedon so no peace at all. i will reconfirm it.

[GTX]

I don't need a fallacy assumption it's very childish prove me with link. so i can verify it. Even asian has no such culture to do that because it can get you in jail furthermore it's very rude because making grave even
2. i actually true in the last thread but you're not thinkin in big picture and interested in your fallacy assumption
4. well in dub it say clearly NEARLY i think you don't watch the movie watched. IT stated as NEARLY 100 year has passed after
5. What?

I think you need to watch the series first because it clear stated in the dub and the raw.

1) First of all, you are trying to place real world restrictions on a fantasy world. What might not be practiced by asian cultures in the real world can still be practiced there, because there is no Asia. Besides, even in the real world, it is legal to do such things, and happens all the time.

2) Him shortening the name he gives her doesn't automatically make the special wrong. Personally speaking, I had a great aunt (my grandmother's sister) who I referred to as "aunt" because it was much easier and simpler to call her that rather than "great aunt" all the time.

4) Why is that an issue? It's still, in the grand scheme of things, basically 100 years after. Nothing false or incorrect about that at all.

Besides, as mentioned in the other topic, given that Goku, when he's shown interacting with Goku Jr. in the special, is shown without his halo, that supports that it ties in with the ending of GT. The cemetery aspect of it ends up being irrelevant at that point, because that shows that he's not dead in normal Dragon Ball terms. That still does not mean in the slightest that they (his family) didn't decide to build a memorial for him, given that he's been gone for several years, and it's not like they knew what happened to him, so they could have just as easily assumed he was dead.

1. it's very rude and there is a law for this. I dont want to debate it without single proof though.
2. it's stated in the wikia as her grandmother. so mostly everybody not only goku called her his grandmother and she called him his grandson.
4. it's matter because if it less than 100 year she could be his grandmother.

if everybody called her his grandmother why she was his great great grandmother?
Are you accept it as truth everybody there called him his grandmother?
I will check it latter now i need resting.

[Zephyr]

1. Not all graves have people inside of them. They could have made a memorial for him. You finding something to be rude doesn't mean it isn't happening. I found Vegeta throwing sand in Zarbon's face to be rude, but that still happened.

2. A "great great grandmother" is still a type of grandmother. I can't imagine having to hang out with my Great Great Grandmother and calling her "Great Great Grandma" every time I refer to her. "Grandma" is much shorter. This is all especially the case if the individual who is technically his grandmother, as well as the individual who is his great grandmother, isn't around anymore. There's nothing that logically precludes Goku Jr. from referring to her as both. And I hope you're not mentioning the DB Wiki in the hopes of it supporting your case, because it's only hurting it.

3. Things can air out of chronological order and still take place in the same continuity.

4. There's no reference to the Red Ribbon Army arc in Battle of Gods. That doesn't mean that the Red Ribbon Army arc wasn't a thing earlier on in the continuity of Battle of Gods.

5. I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

6. Seriously, the people making these stories don't care about the details fitting seamlessly together. Even if any single one of these points was somehow a plothole or something, it still wouldn't render the Special "non-canon". If plotholes entailed non-canonicity, then the manga wouldn't be canon to itself.

[Darkprince410]

1. it's very rude and there is a law for this. I dont want to debate it without single proof though.
2. it's stated in the wikia as her grandmother. so mostly everybody not only goku called her his grandmother and she called him his grandson.
4. it's matter because if it less than 100 year she could be his grandmother.

if everybody called her his grandmother why she was his great great grandmother?
Are you accept it as truth everybody there called him his grandmother?
I will check it latter now i need resting.

1) It is far from being rude, and if there's a law about it, then you cite this law. Such activities legally happen all the time as a means of memorializing the dead. I will also say again, just because it "might" be illegal in parts of Asia doesn't mean that such practices are illegal in the Dragon Ball world. After all, it is Toei, the exact same company that made the anime, the exact same writers, etc, so there's no reason to disregard the special as not being in GT's continuity just because of something that you feel doesn't fit in the real world. The only, only way that you could make an argument about this is if it were established in GT itself that memorializing the dead when no body is present wasn't allowed, but since no statement is made, then you saying that it makes the special "non-canon" is irrelevant.

2) The wiki's information is often dubious at best, but that's beside the point. Myself and others have given valid, real world reasons for why Pan was referred to as his grandmother, and in turn Goku Jr being referred to as her grandson. It's a matter of convenience and simplicity, rather than going to great lengths to refer to one another as "great great grandmother" and "great great grandson" in every day, casual conversation.

4) All official statements put the special itself as being one hundred years after, and in the final episode of GT, she specifically refers to Goku Jr. as her great great grandson, which supports it being one hundred years after. Maybe it might be 99 years, maybe it might be 101 years, but they're not going to arbitrarily throw 100 years around when in actuality it was like 50 or so.

You've been given a logical and reasonable reason why they referred to one another as grandmother/grandson, and why others referred to them as such as well. So why you would be so caught up on this doesn't make sense.

Nothing about the special contradicts what is shown at the end of GT, and therefore it fits perfectly well with everything shown.

[Zephyr]

The only, only way that you could make an argument about this is if it were established in GT itself that memorializing the dead when no body is present wasn't allowed.

Even that wouldn't work. The people in charge of regulating this could have been tricked, or something.

[Darkprince410]

The only, only way that you could make an argument about this is if it were established in GT itself that memorializing the dead when no body is present wasn't allowed.

Even that wouldn't work. The people in charge of regulating this could have been tricked, or something.

Nevertheless, that's the only way he could make any kind of argument on whether that was illegal in the Dragon Ball universe, if it were actually established that such practices are illegal there. Otherwise, it's simply just using real world legality (even though it is legal in the real world too) to try and set what has to be in the Dragon Ball universe.

[Hitiro]

I don't need a fallacy assumption it's very childish prove me with link. so i can verify it. Even asian has no such culture to do that because it can get you in jail furthermore it's very rude because making grave even

How am I supposed to provide proof of a law in a made up world? There is nothing stopping them from allowing empty graves in GT. In fact, there are several Asian stories that have characters who have died but they provide empty graves for them.

2. i actually true in the last thread but you're not thinkin in big picture and interested in your fallacy assumption

Nobody believes this, I've proven several times that you've provided incorrect information. You've discredited yourself a lot. So why should we believe you?

4. well in dub it say clearly NEARLY i think you don't watch the movie watched. IT stated as NEARLY 100 year has passed after. Probably the sub is wrong in the dub it said nearly.

You were claiming that the Japanese Raw said "Nearly" so your argument is void. You basically lied so why should we believe anything you say? And just saying the sub is wrong when the dub means nothing because you'll have to prove it said it wrong.

Well actually it's enough for me to prove it's stated as grand mother in japan and great
I think you need to watch the series first because it clear stated in the dub and the raw.

Prove it? You keep asking for evidence about this stuff. Provide evidence that it is stated in the dub and raw. Because you also said it was stated in the raw that the time passage was "nearly" 100 years. But you clearly lied about that as the image in my previous post proves. So what is stopping you from lying again exactly? If you're going to make claims then provide evidence because you have been the most untrustworthy in this discussion.

because i still have good shot in grand mother statement and the grave.
I don't like debating without proof i already state my proof. but you don't.

If you don't like debating without proof how about you provide your own proof for a change? Because all we have to go on is your word and you've proved to us that your word isn't very trustworthy by making accusations like the time passage being "nearly" 100 years. When the raw actually says just 100 years.

[GTX]

i don't debate without proof espescially number 1
In GT he state himself as hihi bachan or e e bachan is not that long for great great grandmother though.

I put this thread to rest until i have another time to answer.
it's fate i failed to delete this thread.
So don't expect quick answer from me

[GTX]

1. i don't debate without link
2The nearly come from the english dub as i stated it.
4 i said the DUB when i said the nearly part. i state the raw from the grandmother statement
5. why should i believe your sub?
2. i put wrong information ? i have said it i did use my own country dub in the statement of vegito thread i admit that and that's it. You're rude honestly saying i'm not trustworthy and eventhough i did admit it and fix it by checkin correct source and fix it. You don't give me link translation for the filler guidebook too eventhough i clearly ask it so many time. You can consider me not asking you. i'm not good enough with pushy people, though.

I think all my statement is clear enough and logical enough.
See my latest post

Japan actually has limited words.
ki has many meaning.sometime mean signature people ki sometime mean power/ srength sometime mean energy sometime also his ki preasure that usually calculate as his rough powerlevel after it's compared or stamina. So use context
Having strong ki usually equal powerful but someone often take it as face value that it's including anything and the fight has ended when their ki is weaker. Sometime they hid it sometime the difference betwen ki can be surpassed by being quick, more endurance and agile sometime with STRONGER BODY sometime with huge regenerative ability or combinatination each of them.
That's why it need to be very clear sometime situation differ.

Ki usually/ generally mean power/ STRENGTH and direcly related to energy. People think using face value has stronger energy or power mean absolute win. NO it's big NO and total MISTAKE. It's like saying very fat people is better fighter than /fit/ martial artist people. it's totally wrong. You can have stronger ki or power/ strength but you mostly still lose if you're slow, sick, wounded, weaker body, weaker endurance etc. It's like saying also because he is fat he also a great runner, hardly sick, has good stamina, agile, good at martial artis, smart etc. No it's only ONE status so stop being dense. There are a lot of criterias so to clearly know he is stronger or weaker so most situation by FIGHTING IT DIRECTLY is the only answer to measure it. Why some people has better skill at something. It's very clear that some people good at something. Eventhough can measure something doesn't mean he is expert at that. It's like because he is can do elementary/ kindergarten math flawlessly he can do the same for high school math and college mathematic.

I repost my previous posting

In db universe it works like this.
KArin, elder kaioshin etc can measure the opponent ki left eventhough in appearance that person look normal but special people know they have no ki/ power left. They even know goku has only power to shoot 1 kamehameha shown at baby saga, eventhough goku was bluffing. kaioshin cannot feel it and celebrate but special wise people like elder kai can sense it even far from planet kaioshin and reject kaioshin observation that goku is still in good stamina by saying goku only has power as much as shooting 1 normal kamehameha.
i think in episode 37 38 39. of GT
Even the statement of i obtain the strongest power show he can feel his own ki. As power in dragon ball also directly corelated ( similar) with ki.
As stated in dialogue of elder kai ;goku has no power/ strength left he can only shoot as much as 1 normal kamehame and that's it.
but eventhough people don't know how much opponent ki left. The person himself know how much his ki left. It's shown when they bluff his opponent for attack but he know cannot release it. AS shown in baby saga too 37 38 39.

[Cetra]

With Goku missing or 100 years you can be sure he either is dead or some supernatural being that is also beyond life.

Also you are taking this way too serious.