Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[DragonHermit]

Goku base form in RoF is about SSJ3 level no? Does that mean that SSJ Blue is 50x SSJ3?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku base form in RoF is about SSJ3 level no?

Nope. He is at SSG level.

[RandomGuy96]

No he's not. He's nowhere near SSG level, as even a half-dead Golden Freeza who couldn't do ANYTHING to a worn out SSGSS Goku with clean hits to the face still laughed at the idea that base Vegeta could stand a chance against him.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No he's not. He's nowhere near SSG level, as even a half-dead Golden Freeza who couldn't do ANYTHING to a worn out SSGSS Goku with clean hits to the face still laughed at the idea that base Vegeta could stand a chance against him.

All that just mean that SSGSS & Golden Freeza are much stronger than SSG.

[RandomGuy96]

No he's not. He's nowhere near SSG level, as even a half-dead Golden Freeza who couldn't do ANYTHING to a worn out SSGSS Goku with clean hits to the face still laughed at the idea that base Vegeta could stand a chance against him.

All that just mean that SSGSS & Golden Freeza are much stronger than SSG.

No it doesn't, since full power SSGSS Goku is still far below Beerus's 10, while full power SSG Goku is a 6 compared to Beerus's 10. The difference is miniscule, certainly not enough to cover the enormous difference between base Goku, exhausted Golden Freeza, exhausted SSGSS Goku, and full power SSGSS Goku. Heck, the gap between #2 and #3 on that list alone is "I can stand still and let you punch me in the face and not get hurt" huge.

I go with a x50 difference. Nice and neat. If Beerus is a 1000 and SSG Goku is a 600, SSGSS Goku is a 750, and base Goku is a 15. Worn out SSGSS Goku can be a 6 while worn out Golden Freeza is a 300 or 400. Base Freeza can be a 11.5.

[ZombieVito]

No he's not. He's nowhere near SSG level, as even a half-dead Golden Freeza who couldn't do ANYTHING to a worn out SSGSS Goku with clean hits to the face still laughed at the idea that base Vegeta could stand a chance against him.

All that just mean that SSGSS & Golden Freeza are much stronger than SSG.

There's not enough room for this to work.

[Noah]

I don't think SBG Goku = SSJG either

I see his Base now like a state that he got pretty much stronger after absorbing Godly Ki, but no near the level of a SSJG and the only way to unleashed it all is transforming into a SSGSS

Something like:

SSJG = 6

SSGSS = 7

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No he's not. He's nowhere near SSG level, as even a half-dead Golden Freeza who couldn't do ANYTHING to a worn out SSGSS Goku with clean hits to the face still laughed at the idea that base Vegeta could stand a chance against him.

All that just mean that SSGSS & Golden Freeza are much stronger than SSG.

There's not enough room for this to work.

Why not? For example:

SSG Goku - 60
SbG Goku/Vegeta - 59
SSGSS Goku/Vegeta - 75
Final Form Freeza - 45
Golden Freeza - 80
Beerus (against Goku) - 70
Beerus (full power) - 100

[RandomGuy96]

Doesn't work. SSGSS Goku, while below his full power, tanked punches to the face from a worn out Golden Freeza, who was much much stronger than base Vegeta.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Doesn't work. SSGSS Goku, while below his full power, tanked punches to the face from a worn out Golden Freeza, who was much much stronger than base Vegeta.

We have no idea how much weaker SSGSS Goku was. He didn't show any significant drop from what I recall. A tired SSGSS Goku could have been at 73, while a tired Golden Freeza could have been at 63.

And tired Golden Freeza wasn't "much much" stronger than base Vegeta, or Vegeta would have lost his arm when he effortlessly hit & changed, to his own liking, the course of Freeza's full power ki blast.

[ZombieVito]

Didn't Whis compared their base power to a tree and Beeru's to his tower?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Didn't Whis compared their base power to a tree and Beeru's to his tower?

No, he said that if the tower is the level of the gods, they are only that high, meaning that they are at god level.

[RandomGuy96]

Doesn't work. SSGSS Goku, while below his full power, tanked punches to the face from a worn out Golden Freeza, who was much much stronger than base Vegeta.

We have no idea how much weaker SSGSS Goku was. He didn't show any significant drop from what I recall. A tired SSGSS Goku could have been at 73, while a tired Golden Freeza could have been at 63.

And tired Golden Freeza wasn't "much much" stronger than base Vegeta, or Vegeta would have lost his arm when he effortlessly hit & changed, to his own liking, the course of Freeza's full power ki blast.

Even going with your insanely generous assumptions, that is nowhere near a big enough difference to tank punches to the face. It's not a big enough difference to just outright ignore dozens of ki blasts launched at you either. This clearly doesn't work.

Yes he was. Freeza considered Vegeta's power to be a complete joke compared to his, and no one contradicted him.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Even going with your insanely generous assumptions, that is nowhere near a big enough difference to tank punches to the face.

Why?

Yes he was. Freeza considered Vegeta's power to be a complete joke compared to his, and no 9je contradicted him.

Freeza can't sense ki to have a clear picture. And again, base Vegeta's feat proves that the difference in their power can't be huge. Freeza believing that Vegeta can't beat him just means that he is still the strongest of the two, but that doesn't mean he is much much stronger. Not to mention that Freeza appeared to be nervous when making that statement, he wasn't even really confident.

[Noah]

Freeza can't sense ki to have a clear picture.

How so? He trained for 4 months and had huge gains, it's impossible to think that he didn't learned the basics also he said to Sorbet that he knows that Gohan could defeat his entire army in a blink if he wanted to, implied that he sensed that Gohan was fighting suppressed.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

How so? He trained for 4 months and had huge gains, it's impossible to think that he didn't learned the basics

You'll have to prove that he learned that one. All of Freeza's army were trained soldiers, yet none of them, not even the strongest ones, could sense ki.

also he said to Sorbet that he knows that Gohan could defeat his entire army in a blink if he wanted to, implied that he sensed that Gohan was fighting suppressed.

You don't need to sense ki to see that someone is effortlessly beating the soldiers, and assume that he is strong enough to destroy them all. Ginyu could get an estimation of Goku's power, and Goku could get an estimation of Beerus' power, and in both cases, ki sensing wasn't involved because Ginyu couldn't sense ki & Goku couldn't sense godly ki.

[RandomGuy96]

Even going with your insanely generous assumptions, that is nowhere near a big enough difference to tank punches to the face.

Why?

You want me to explain why less than a x1.2 difference isn't enough to tank punches to the face and not even be bothered by dozens of ki blasts?

Freeza can't sense ki to have a clear picture.

It doesn't matter. He knows how powerful the base Saiyans are from fighting Goku.

And again, base Vegeta's feat proves that the difference in their power can't be huge. Freeza believing that Vegeta can't beat him just means that he is still the strongest of the two, but that doesn't mean he is much much stronger. Not to mention that Freeza appeared to be nervous when making that statement, he wasn't even really confident.

It doesn't prove that at all. You don't need to be anywhere near as powerful as someone just to block/redirect a blast, especially when we don't know how powerful it was.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

You want me to explain why less than a x1.2 difference isn't enough to tank punches to the face and not even be bothered by dozens of ki blasts?

Yep. A 1.09 difference is big enough to one-shot the opponent with a ki blast after all.

It doesn't matter. He knows how powerful the base Saiyans are from fighting Goku.

And? He can't know how exactly Vegeta compares to Goku.

It doesn't prove that at all. You don't need to be anywhere near as powerful as someone just to block/redirect a blast, especially when we don't know how powerful it was.

We know it was a full power ki blast from the script. If it was at full power, and if Vegeta is as weak as you say, he wouldn't be able to hit it like that.

[RandomGuy96]

And? He can't know how exactly Vegeta compares to Goku.

He saw them fight on even terms.

You want me to explain why less than a x1.2 difference isn't enough to tank punches to the face and not even be bothered by dozens of ki blasts?

Yep. A 1.09 difference is big enough to one-shot the opponent with a ki blast after all.

Oh, you've converted to the "Vegeta's fights with Freeza's goons determines all power level gaps, the official levels are wrong and/or don't apply because of X" school of thought. Never mind then, this conversation is a waste. Continue telling people they're wrong for not thinking that base Goku is SSG level and that a x1.1 difference is enough to receive no damage from an opponent's punches and blasts and kill them in one hit. "Yamcha vs Saibaman/Goku vs Freeza/KK Goku vs Vegeta/Vegeta vs Recoome/70% Beerus vs SSG Goku/etc. don't real" and all that noise.

[Bullza]

Yeah I'm not seeing base Goku of base Vegeta being anywhere near to the level of SSJG anymore. That sneeze blast of Beerus' was said to be enough to wipe Goku out.

It also doesn't make any sense with how taken a back Frieza was when Goku transformed if he only went from a 6 to a 7.

Though how strong they actually are in base is anyone's guess. Frieza in his first form was stronger than Super Saiyan (2?) Gohan and in his final form could be drastically (hundreds?) of times more powerful.

I'd say they were vastly more powerful than Mystic Gohan let alone SSJ3.