"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Araki]

To b e fair,naruto is absent minded,got weaker after the war,lost his dream girl,was a neglectful father. He isn't a mary sue.

He didn't "lose" anyone, he just grew out of a childhood crush. In the end, Naruto got the girl he deserved, the one who always cared for him. Much earlier in the series, he got the love and respect of everyone, something he always wanted. Even villains started to be converted by his "wisdom". More than the Hokage, he became a hero, an icon of the whole ninja world.

In short, he became pretty damn close to a Gary Stu, as his initial flaws turned less and less noticeable. The only person who even cares whether he's a good father or not is Boruto, who just wants attention.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

To b e fair,naruto is absent minded,got weaker after the war,lost his dream girl,was a neglectful father. He isn't a mary sue.

He didn't "lose" anyone, he just grew out of a childhood crush. In the end, Naruto got the girl he deserved, the one who always cared for him. Much earlier in the series, he got the love and respect of everyone, something he always wanted. Even villains started to be converted by his "wisdom". More than the Hokage, he became a hero, an icon of the whole ninja world.

In short, he became pretty damn close to a Gary Stu, as his initial flaws turned less and less noticeable. The only person who even cares whether he's a good father or not is Boruto, who just wants attention.

Boruto is his son,his opinion on naruto's parenting>everyone's else's in Naruto. Also I don't think he deserves hinata, she's sweet and he's arguably pure evil and EXTREMELY shellfish. He's the final villain because Kishimotto just wanted to make him evil for no damn explained reason. Still this is off topic. If we're going to be perfectly specific then nobody is mary sue. Everyone has some flaw.

[batistabus]

Why are we worrying about this character being a Mary Sue? Assuming Toriyama included information and character designs about his character in his plot contributions (which I think is a fair assumption), have we ever known him to create such a character? If anything, I think it's more reasonable to worry about him/her being too silly.

[Doctor.]

Why are we worrying about this character being a Mary Sue? Assuming Toriyama included information and character designs about his character in his plot contributions (which I think is a fair assumption), have we ever known him to create such a character? If anything, I think it's more reasonable to worry about him/her being too silly.

Can't Trunks be classified as a Mary Sue?

[LightBing]

I find it very hard to predict how the fifth fighter will be like. Mr.Toriyama doesn't introduce people for no reason. It does make me wonder if he had this character in his head since BoG, back in 2013. I'm pretty sure the second strongest line is in the movie.
I'm thinking it will be someone with connection to the Universe mythology, who may play a part in the possible post-tournament arc.
Of course he could be just a one joke character, for giggles.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

I find it very hard to predict how the fifth fighter will be like. Mr.Toriyama doesn't introduce people for no reason. It does make me wonder if he had this character in his head since BoG, back in 2013. I'm pretty sure the second strongest line is in the movie.
I'm thinking it will be someone with connection to the Universe mythology, who may play a part in the possible post-tournament arc.
Of course he could be just a one joke character, for giggles.

Isn't it obvious? The fifth fighter will be Scratch, The Cat of Dr Briefs and sole mate of Beerus.

[Pannaliciour]

I find it very hard to predict how the fifth fighter will be like. Mr.Toriyama doesn't introduce people for no reason. It does make me wonder if he had this character in his head since BoG, back in 2013. I'm pretty sure the second strongest line is in the movie.
I'm thinking it will be someone with connection to the Universe mythology, who may play a part in the possible post-tournament arc.
Of course he could be just a one joke character, for giggles.

Its Satan

[batistabus]

Why are we worrying about this character being a Mary Sue? Assuming Toriyama included information and character designs about his character in his plot contributions (which I think is a fair assumption), have we ever known him to create such a character? If anything, I think it's more reasonable to worry about him/her being too silly.

Can't Trunks be classified as a Mary Sue?

Trunks is very nice and a likable character, but he makes some bad judgements in his timeline (taking on the Artificial Humans) and in ours (thinking he is stronger/smarter than Vegeta by fighting Cell in the bulky Super Saiyan form).

[miguelnuva1]

Why are we worrying about this character being a Mary Sue? Assuming Toriyama included information and character designs about his character in his plot contributions (which I think is a fair assumption), have we ever known him to create such a character? If anything, I think it's more reasonable to worry about him/her being too silly.

Can't Trunks be classified as a Mary Sue?

The Super Saiyan grade 3 even be used makes him not one.

[Bullza]

Why does it matter for Champa if Earth is swapped out when he can apparently freely travel to Universe 7 anyway? What's to stop him from just going to U7's Earth in the first place?

[TKA]

Can't Trunks be classified as a Mary Sue?

At his introduction? ABSO-EFFING-LUTELY! By the end of it? Not even close.

He shows up out of nowhere, immediately goes Super Saiyan, is younger than most of the cast, makes quick work of the villain everyone was terrified of, is the son of 2 lead characters, shows up the entire cast, uses a pointless weapon just because it's cool and is from the future. He was the textbook example of a Sue.

But then he returned and every moment in the arc for him after was him being wrong, failing or getting shown up by other characters. That's what saved Future Trunks from being a Sue.

[macho_man]

Beerus-sama fought the Elder Kaioshin in the past... and won sealing him in the Z-Sword. Maybe it's been a battle more fierce than we think. Hakaishin (instead of Makaioshin) is the antithesis of the Kaioshin, isn't it?
Could the Eldest Kaioshin be the 5th warrior? Could he return young and strong with some special power of his own, just like happened in Saint Seiya with grandmaster Dohko? It would be pretty hilarious, and a bit original.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Why does it matter for Champa if Earth is swapped out when he can apparently freely travel to Universe 7 anyway? What's to stop him from just going to U7's Earth in the first place?

I'd guess there's probably a pretty good chance that he's as impatient as Beerus is. He's already fairly impatient with how long it takes to get out to other places from his planet, and that's in the same Universe at least. Champa would have even further to travel each time, thus even more waiting to deal with each trip. So moving it at least that much closer to his own planet would just make it easier for him.

Not to mention the fact that he's probably up to something else too.

[Vice]

Where did this misconception that Mary sues are perfect and can't have flaws come from?

At any rate, Beerus is absolutely a Mary sue because his "flaws" like his impatience and hot headedness, I.E. destroying an entire planet full of people for something as petty as there being too much salt in his food, are either ignored completely or outright celebrated. The guy never faces any consequences for his actions everyone in the series either bends over backwards to please the guy or kowtows to him in absolute fear and he gets needlessly shoehorned into past events that absolutely serve no greater purpose to have him added.

Beerus is one of the more annoying characters Toriyama has ever come up with.

[Doctor.]

The guy never faces any consequences for his actions everyone in the series

Well but that's just wrong, Goku tried to defeat him precisely because Beerus was being an asshole (the "Don't enjoy destruction" scene in BoG and the "Just because you're a God doesn't mean you can tell me what my limits are" scene in BoG are proof of this and Beerus gains some degree of humility because of Goku's words), not to mention that Whis himself punished Beerus on a few occasions. Plus, he hasn't gotten what's coming to him yet because he's the (second) strongest. Do you think Freeza was a Mary Sue too before Goku fought him? Of course not.

[LightBing]

Why does it matter for Champa if Earth is swapped out when he can apparently freely travel to Universe 7 anyway? What's to stop him from just going to U7's Earth in the first place?

I'd guess there's probably a pretty good chance that he's as impatient as Beerus is. He's already fairly impatient with how long it takes to get out to other places from his planet, and that's in the same Universe at least. Champa would have even further to travel each time, thus even more waiting to deal with each trip. So moving it at least that much closer to his own planet would just make it easier for him.

Not to mention the fact that he's probably up to something else too.

I doubt that's a fast trip. It takes an anime episode to travel from Beerus place to Earth. I imagine an Universal trip is much longer than that. Besides, in the manga Champa sneaks around, as if he wasn't supposed to be in our Universe without Beerus knowledge. There must some unspoken rules.

[Gendo]

Hi, I'm new on the forum. So, a very fast hello to everybody (and sorry for my grammar, it's not my first language).

I don't know if somebody has already written about this, but what about if the fifth warrior on the Beerus Team were Neko Majin?

- He's the future student of Son Goku.
- He's a very strong character, at least so strong as Mr. Buu.
- Tadayoshi Yamamuro told in this interview that probably another characters like Neko Majin would appear in the anime. (min 1:12)

[Doctor.]

I'd love it if it was Neko Majin, but I'm not even sure Toriyama remembers him.

[SansrivaaL]

I for one do not want Neko Majin to be the 5th fighter.... we already got 2 cats that are God's that already has a huge role on the U6 arc...

[djcoopdawg]

Beerus-sama fought the Elder Kaioshin in the past... and won sealing him in the Z-Sword. Maybe it's been a battle more fierce than we think. Hakaishin (instead of Makaioshin) is the antithesis of the Kaioshin, isn't it?
Could the Eldest Kaioshin be the 5th warrior? Could he return young and strong with some special power of his own, just like happened in Saint Seiya with grandmaster Dohko? It would be pretty hilarious, and a bit original.

Fantastic comment! This actually sounds very possible.