Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

[supacomboy]

The way I see it, Gohan obtained the form/powerup in a very short period of time, as soon as he had obtained it he jumped in straight away to fight Boo. The aftermath of the battle led to something like 4 or 5 years of relative peace where he probably hasn't trained or revisited the Old Kaioshin's state/form. When I see it like that it makes a lotore sense to me personally. If it is a state he neglected it, amd if it is a form he never trained to be able to consistently obtain/hold the form. After Boo, and having his father back he was probably so over joyed it probably didn't cross his mind to practice his new found ability/power.

Edit: Very much a case of use it or loose it!

[Metrite]

why Gohan lost this form.

Gohan didn't lose the "form". You can't lose something you never had. It still irks me whenever somebody refers to it as a form/state/whatever when the manga so emphatically stated it is not. Gohan's power up enabled him to bring out all the power he had in him at the time without without having to get angry or transform. Him slacking has caused him to gradually lose touch with that power to the point that must again turn ssj to draw out his full strength. This doesn't mean he's all of a sudden exactly as strong as he was at the start of the Buu saga when not ssj. It could be possible he's half as strong as he was against Buu and turning ssj puts him back at (or a tad below) that level.

[Kishido]

Mystic.... Hahahahhahahahaha

Worst stuff ever...

DBZ at Namek

Fat Namekian: I will pull out your dormant power

Gohan: Cool

Buu saga

Elder Kai: I will put pout your dormant power... AGAIN... Turn Super Saiyan

*Gohan does so but instead is Mystic*

Gohan: WTF?

Elder: No need for blonde hair

Battle of Gods

Gohan: Oi Beerus... I'm coming as Mystic!!! I'm so cool

*gets owned*

Ritual:

Gohan: I have to turn Super Saiyan, even if Elder Kai told me that this is how I turn Mystic...

Return of Frieza

Gohan: I haven't trained... MAYBE I can turn Super Saiyan...

Now look for logic... But hey... Soon I get huge ass long post about power levles, multipliers and dormant powers... Even if it still makes no sense and even Toriyama is not giving a you know what.

I will just live with the fact, that Toriyama made a huge mistake with Mystic, which neither GT back than and Super right now can explain. Hell even in the original it was stupid...

[supacomboy]

Didn't he (Old Kaioshin) say power up as if you was to go Super Saiyan i.e power up in the same vain as you would when ascending to Super Saiyan (but don't become Super Saiyan)? Nothing was ever said that Gohan lost his Super Saiyan transformation was it, just that it was no longer necessary?

[Kishido]

Didn't he (Old Kaioshin) say power up as if you was to go Super Saiyan i.e power up in the same vain as you would when ascending to Super Saiyan (but don't become Super Saiyan)? Nothing was ever said that Gohan lost his Super Saiyan transformation was it, just that it was no longer necessary?

No he said turn Super Saiyan. Gohan did and instead went "Mystic". That's why everyone ever since GT is waiting for an explanation why in GT he simply was Super Saiyan. Instead we do even get worse stuff in Super.

Toriyama and Co dropped the ball on it. Noe peolpe have an headache writing wall fo textes trying to explain it... Yeah nice... But doesn't make it better if we are talking about a child manga. So I will take it simply as bad decision plot device and nothing more and try to forget it as the story itself.

Same goes for the absolute ridiculous power levels right now.

[Metrite]

Didn't he (Old Kaioshin) say power up as if you was to go Super Saiyan i.e power up in the same vain as you would when ascending to Super Saiyan (but don't become Super Saiyan)?

Exactly. He said the gist of it was similar to becoming ssj. And after Gohan powers up and Goku is surprised that Gohan could come so far without any sort of transformation, Rou Kaioushin rambles that a transformation doesn't always have to happen. It seems the dub made the mistake of having him just say something like, "turn ssj", which gave many the impression that this is some new transformation that replaces ssj, which the manga clearly explained is not the case.

[Kishido]

And what does it exactly change?

It was bad and now is meaningless... It was was a poor plot device which after it opened more questions than it answered...

Or what happens it Gohan starts training. Will he get his Mystic back or what?

But hey maybe Piccolo, Goten,Trunks and the others should go to elder Kai... He can dance around them a bit as well

[BluePiccolo]

I keep reading in a few posts here that it's been 5 years or so after Buu Saga.
I was under the impression that it's been at best 2 years now in Revival of F saga in Super (less than a year in BoG and then a year+ in the timeskip)
Can someone clarify/confirm this?

[Draconic]

Didn't he (Old Kaioshin) say power up as if you was to go Super Saiyan i.e power up in the same vain as you would when ascending to Super Saiyan (but don't become Super Saiyan)?

Exactly. He said the gist of it was similar to becoming ssj. And after Gohan powers up and Goku is surprised that Gohan could come so far without any sort of transformation, Rou Kaioushin rambles that a transformation doesn't always have to happen. It seems the dub made the mistake of having him just say something like, "turn ssj", which gave many the impression that this is some new transformation that replaces ssj, which the manga clearly explained is not the case.

In the dub's defense, the anime actually has a scene halfway trough the ritual where Gohan gets restless, stands up and powers up. His eyes start turning green, but eventually they go back to normal, after which he and Goku are amazed at the power he gained and Gohan settles down, seeing that the ritual actually works. I don't know if this scene is in the manga, or how it's presented, but it definetley exists and adds to the confusion. It's not just a dub thing.

[Neon Z]

Didn't he (Old Kaioshin) say power up as if you was to go Super Saiyan i.e power up in the same vain as you would when ascending to Super Saiyan (but don't become Super Saiyan)?

Exactly. He said the gist of it was similar to becoming ssj. And after Gohan powers up and Goku is surprised that Gohan could come so far without any sort of transformation, Rou Kaioushin rambles that a transformation doesn't always have to happen. It seems the dub made the mistake of having him just say something like, "turn ssj", which gave many the impression that this is some new transformation that replaces ssj, which the manga clearly explained is not the case.

In the dub's defense, the anime actually has a scene halfway trough the ritual where Gohan gets restless, stands up and powers up. His eyes start turning green, but eventually they go back to normal, after which he and Goku are amazed at the power he gained and Gohan settles down, seeing that the ritual actually works. I don't know if this scene is in the manga, or how it's presented, but it definetley exists and adds to the confusion. It's not just a dub thing.

He had done that "eyes only" partial transformation during the tournament though (before he decided to transform against Kibito for sure). So, that doesn't necessarily indicate anything.

[Son_Gohan]

He had done that "eyes only" partial transformation during the tournament though (before he decided to transform against Kibito for sure). So, that doesn't necessarily indicate anything.

There is a slight variation actually. During the ritual, his eyes are completely outlined, a trait associated with his Super Saiyan form; at the tournament, he retains the partially outlined eyes of his normal state.

[Gonstead]

I keep reading in a few posts here that it's been 5 years or so after Buu Saga.
I was under the impression that it's been at best 2 years now in Revival of F saga in Super (less than a year in BoG and then a year+ in the timeskip)
Can someone clarify/confirm this?

Battle of Gods takes place 2 years after the 2008 special, which itself takes place 2 years after the Buu arc. 'F' takes place at least 9 months after, so basically 5 years rounded up.

[BluePiccolo]

I keep reading in a few posts here that it's been 5 years or so after Buu Saga.
I was under the impression that it's been at best 2 years now in Revival of F saga in Super (less than a year in BoG and then a year+ in the timeskip)
Can someone clarify/confirm this?

Battle of Gods takes place 2 years after the 2008 special, which itself takes place 2 years after the Buu arc. 'F' takes place at least 9 months after, so basically 5 years rounded up.

Thanks for the clear up.

BRACE YOURSELVES , RANT INCOMING.

I can't stress enough how angry I am at DBS writers for making Gohan a complete weakling compared to Goku/Vegeta in Super. In the movie version resurrection "F" you can see him just a bit above other characters like Tien, Krillin, Yamcha and even Muten Roshi.
Especially because Gohan was ultimately the strongest character in Cell saga and 2nd strongest in the Buu saga in his Mystic state (2nd to Vegetto and not counting Buu fusions). I felt like from the beginning of Cell saga through mid-Buu saga Toriyama planned for Gohan to be the successor of Goku as a main character of the series but instead kept pushing Goku because of fanbase/company pressure (Goku bing an iconic character and makes good merchandise revenue) or a gut feeling that Gohan wouldn't be a good main protagonist at this point, I really can't tell anymore.
All that aside, Gohan became a grade B character at best and got pushed aside in all of the continuations of the series after Buu saga. And I hate it.

[buutenks]

I keep reading in a few posts here that it's been 5 years or so after Buu Saga.
I was under the impression that it's been at best 2 years now in Revival of F saga in Super (less than a year in BoG and then a year+ in the timeskip)
Can someone clarify/confirm this?

Battle of Gods takes place 2 years after the 2008 special, which itself takes place 2 years after the Buu arc. 'F' takes place at least 9 months after, so basically 5 years rounded up.

Thanks for the clear up.

BRACE YOURSELVES , RANT INCOMING.

I can't stress enough how angry I am at DBS writers for making Gohan a complete weakling compared to Goku/Vegeta in Super. In the movie version resurrection "F" you can see him just a bit above other characters like Tenshinhan, Krillin, Yamcha and even Muten Roshi.
Especially because Gohan was ultimately the strongest character in Cell saga and 2nd strongest in the Buu saga in his Mystic state (2nd to Vegetto and not counting Buu fusions). I felt like from the beginning of Cell saga through mid-Buu saga Toriyama planned for Gohan to be the successor of Goku as a main character of the series but instead kept pushing Goku because of fanbase/company pressure (Goku bing an iconic character and makes good merchandise revenue) or a gut feeling that Gohan wouldn't be a good main protagonist at this point, I really can't tell anymore.
All that aside, Gohan became a grade B character at best and got pushed aside in all of the continuations of the series after Buu saga. And I hate it.

What are you talking about? In RoF / Super, SSj Gohan pawned (huh?) full power Tagoma who is (algebraically greater than?) everyone else...

He's not a bit above Ten and others; he's leagues above them.

[BluePiccolo]

What r u talking about in rof super,ssj gohan pawned full power tagoma who is >>>everyone else...

hes not a bit above ten and others,he's leagues above them.

I just didn't feel that he was leagues above them, not in his base anyway.
As stated somewhere in this thread, he was mystic in BoG (supposedly) so how on earth did he lose that much power by RoF so that he must go SSj in order to draw a chunk of that latent power.
As we all agreed, potential can't be something that's lost, It just makes no sense to me.

[Muffin Man]

Explanations and rationalizations aside, what I have to wonder is why is it so unappealing to Toei to just keep Gohan as Mystic in the first place? Same goes for Gotenks as a SSj3, for that matter. Wrath of the Dragon was able to get it right. Why does everything afterward insist on ignoring Mystic Gohan and ignoring SSj3 Gotenks (if not ignoring Gotenks himself outright)? If they aren't going to give powerups to the non-Goku and non-Vegeta characters then they should at least let them keep what they already had.

[buutenks]

Toys.

ssj gohan looks cooler than regular gohan.

[Kaboom]

Explanations and rationalizations aside, what I have to wonder is why is it so unappealing to Toei to just keep Gohan as Mystic in the first place? Same goes for Gotenks as a SSj3, for that matter. Wrath of the Dragon was able to get it right. Why does everything afterward insist on ignoring Mystic Gohan and ignoring SSj3 Gotenks (if not ignoring Gotenks himself outright)? If they aren't going to give powerups to the non-Goku and non-Vegeta characters then they should at least let them keep what they already had.

Because those things made them stronger than Goku (and Vegeta, but mostly Goku), and we simply can't allow that in modern, Toei-heralded Dragon Ball.

Goku is bestest. Goku is supreme. Gotta ignore half the Majin Boo arc's events and rewrite the story even as we're telling it, all to make Goku the strongest.

[Doctor.]

Explanations and rationalizations aside, what I have to wonder is why is it so unappealing to Toei to just keep Gohan as Mystic in the first place? Same goes for Gotenks as a SSj3, for that matter. Wrath of the Dragon was able to get it right. Why does everything afterward insist on ignoring Mystic Gohan and ignoring SSj3 Gotenks (if not ignoring Gotenks himself outright)? If they aren't going to give powerups to the non-Goku and non-Vegeta characters then they should at least let them keep what they already had.

Because those things made them stronger than Goku (and Vegeta, but mostly Goku), and we simply can't allow that in modern, Toei-heralded Dragon Ball.

Goku is bestest. Goku is supreme. Gotta ignore half the Majin Boo arc's events and rewrite the story even as we're telling it, all to make Goku the strongest.

But the thing is that Goku now in his base form is already stronger than anyone else. So why continue to omit those forms?

[Kaboom]

But the thing is that Goku now in his base form is already stronger than anyone else. So why continue to omit those forms?

Because it's not enough for Goku to be made more special. Other characters have to be made less special in turn.