"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Sodhi]

Beerus didn't tell Goku about 12 universes.

Spoiler:

According to the manga we know that is being saved for uni.6 arc, Whis explains all about the twelve universes to Goku and vegeta.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

Did anyone mention about Gogeta? Gotenks whooped Tagoma's arse last week.

I'm getting the feeling that Vegeta and Goku could fuse into Gogeta with their SSJ God SS form to battle Freeza. Anyone up with that? They could defuse later and Vegeta finally kills Freeza completely. He did kill his men back on Namek a long while.

In fact let's just do that for this arc to have the perfect book end. Krillin throws a Kienzan while Freeza isn't looking, and kills Freeza in a similar fashion that he was cut in half on Namek. If he survives then Goku and/or Vegeta blast what's left of Freeza. That would be awesome.

That would be fucking glorious.

I'm also praying Freeza could destroy the Earth in "5 minutes" leaving Vegeta and Freeza on the dying planet.

[Pannaliciour]

About the laser thing, aren't you forgetting Z: Piccolo kicks Freeza (final form), little trunks kicks fat buu when Vegeta is on the ground. These hits had great impact on the enemy even when the attacker is weak. We can assume that non of the characters maintain their ki at maximum all the time only when needed. So not paying attention=lost of KI =fragile

[dbzfan7]

About the laser thing, aren't you forgetting Z: Piccolo kicks Freeza (final form), little trunks kicks fat buu when Vegeta is on the ground. These hits had great impact on the enemy even when the attacker is weak. We can assume that non of the characters maintain their ki at maximum all the time only when needed. So not paying attention=lost of KI =fragile

Neither did any damage to Freeza or Boo. Both examples only bought Goku and Vegeta a bit of time, and that's it. A better example is Vegeta weakening himself as much as possible so Krillin can fatally hurt him. I suppose people can argue the scene was something in that ball park. There's Tenshinhan's Kikoho holding back Cell to, but that also didn't hurt him in the least. Other examples include Piccolo fatally injuring Goku, and Vegeta knocking out Goku when is back is turned. Both times though are from people of comparable strength.

[DainIronfoot]

In fact let's just do that for this arc to have the perfect book end. Krillin throws a Kienzan while Freeza isn't looking, and kills Freeza in a similar fashion that he was cut in half on Namek. If he survives then Goku and/or Vegeta blast what's left of Freeza. That would be awesome.

That would be fucking glorious.

It really would! I imagined it as that part where Goku is on ground with Freeza's foot on him. Bam, Kienzan cuts him!! I don't see it happening but it would be an awesome way to follow up with Krillin's overcome of fear.

[raulvalente]

About the laser scene: (sorry if posting a pic with english subs is against the terms of this forum. if it's against, I'll delete the post)

Spoiler:

It makes total sense to me. Not taking in consideration power levels.

[Doctor.]

The problem isn't that it doesn't make sense, the explanation does and fits in with the rules established in the series. The problem is that Goku lowering his guard goes completely against his characterization in all of the previous arcs. Not to mention that the entire scene is completely dumb, considering Goku has Golden Freeza in front of him so he has no reason to lower his power, Sorbet is in front of him, so he should have sensed, dodged, or at least SEEN the laser.

[irreality]

so he should have sensed, dodged, or at least SEEN the laser.

How exactly does one sense or see a laser before it reaches its target? Lasers move at the speed of light since they are light, you literally cannot see them sooner than they would hit you (note: lasers are different than plasma or ki attacks). And lasers don't have ki. Yeah, he can sense Sorbet is in front of him, maybe fiddling with a ring, but he doesn't know the ring is a weapon until it is fired. He should have been on his guard against minions doing something unexpected, of course, and that is the whole point: I think it doesn't occur to him that others might not relish in a fair fight as much as he does.

I don't think we need to believe that Goku lowered his power level to some absurd degree for this plot to work. In the movie, at least, this is spelled out as a plan b, so that laser is probably ridiculously overpowered, otherwise this never would have worked. Goku simply needs to not be paying attention the way Whis is explaining to him in the training, where you are moving without thinking and aware of everything around you.

[fadeddreams5]

The fact that Gohan and Shisami were caught off-guard by Tagoma's ki blast, and later, Gohan was caught off-guard by Frieza's beam kind of debunks this notion that the laser is in any ways special. It's no different from the blasters the other minions have: a weapon that fires off a ki blast. Face it, Super/RF has created an idiotic logic where anyone, no matter how strong they are, can be one-shotted or seriously injured if they aren't paying attention. Imagine if this was the case against Cell during his beam struggle...

Another thing that bothers me about that scene from RF is the fact that Goku is a SSGSS while this happens. This implies that that form is basically the same as FPSSJ, making it perfect (well, besides the off-guard business, which applies to anyone now).

[Gyt Kaliba]

Imagine if this was the case against Cell during his beam struggle...

I really can't believe I'm letting myself get drug into this debate once again...but those are very different cases. While Cell was currently in the process of continually pumping more power into his Kamehameha firing at Gohan, Goku wasn't doing anything but standing there in front of Freeza at the time he was hit.

I will sincerely never understand why this is such a big deal to people to the point that it's still coming up (though I guess we're getting relatively close to where it may or may not happen again in Super, so it was unfortunately inevitable that it'd come back again...).

[Zephyr]

The problem is that Goku lowering his guard goes completely against his characterization in all of the previous arcs. Not to mention that the entire scene is completely dumb, considering Goku has Golden Freeza in front of him so he has no reason to lower his power, Sorbet is in front of him, so he should have sensed, dodged, or at least SEEN the laser.

I simply view it as Goku's become so powerful that he's getting a tad more irresponsibly cocky than usual.

[fadeddreams5]

Imagine if this was the case against Cell during his beam struggle...

I really can't believe I'm letting myself get drug into this debate once again...but those are very different cases. While Cell was currently in the process of continually pumping more power into his Kamehameha firing at Gohan, Goku wasn't doing anything but standing there in front of Freeza at the time he was hit.

Well, then, look at Gohan. He said he couldn't remain in his SSJ form for long, implying it exhausts ki, but he was still caught off-guard and rendered useless.

Remember when Frieza just blasted the **** out of SSJ Goku after his life was saved? Goku had his back turned, but he still sensed that blast... or saw it. Mind you, there have been times people were injured by being caught off-guard, such as Nappa against Piccolo, but he was barely scratched because he was naturally much stronger.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Well, then, look at Gohan. He said he couldn't remain in his SSJ form for long, implying it exhausts ki, but he was still caught off-guard and rendered useless.

Remember when Freeza just blasted the **** out of SSJ Goku after his life was saved? Goku had his back turned, but he still sensed that blast... or saw it. Mind you, there have been times people were injured by being caught off-guard, such as Nappa against Piccolo, but he was barely scratched because he was naturally much stronger.

Presuming you're talking about his fight with Shishami, he was entirely focused on that fight, he wasn't expecting a blast from Tagoma to just come rocketing in and punch right through his opponent, much less still hit him pretty hard too. Heck, Sorbet (and Freeza somewhat) didn't seem to be expecting that to happen either, and they were right there next to the guy.

I forget if it happened that way in the manga, but in the anime at least, Freeza yelled as he fired the blast, so it's entirely possible Goku heard him and that's initially why he turned back around. As for Piccolo's blast against Nappa, one could assume that for one thing, that seemed to just be a large, powerful blast, rather than a focused and narrow one (akin to Piccolo's Mankankosappo). If anything, that just shows that battles are a variable thing, and no matter how much you guys try to 'crunch the numbers' things are not always going to fall so neatly into your pre-assumed categories.

And really, why would you want them to? That'd be boring. That would be no different than if Goku had shown up to fight Freeza on Namek and went 'Oh crap, he's way stronger than me. I don't really have a chance here, unless you'd be so kind as to kill my best friend in front of me, thus allowing me to tap into further power?'. It's about the journey, the story, not a fight that you can check things off of your logic checklist.

[Doctor.]

Well, one would simply ignore it as being "part of the journey", if both the journey and the end result in F didn't end up as an absolute waste of time, patience and brain cells. There's a reason why this is always coming up. It's not some joke that you're not in on, it's a legitimate writing issue. One that, admittedly, would have probably been glossed over if it was in any arc in the series, but the fact that people are so bent in discussing about it tells more about the quality of the film, than the scene itself.

[SaiyanZ]

It doesn't make sense period. Vegeta pulled the same stunt on Freeza in his 2nd form and it didn't do anything. Honestly, Goku standing over Freeza as he's beaten isn't "lowering his guard" or being "cocky" at all. Goku reaching for the Senzu during his fight with Majin Vegeta is a better example, or Goku depowering from SSJ and flying away from Freeza when he said "it was done" on Namek is also a better example. As dbzfan7 said earlier, Tenshinhan catching Cell offguard with his Kikoho is also proof that attacks like that don't work. The only technique that has proved useful against stronger opponents in terms of making them bleed is Krillin's Kienzan, like when it cut Nappa's cheek and Freeza's tail. There is no justifying that scene especially since Goku was a SSJ Blue. Goku has tanked many attacks point-blank without so much as a scratch, like Freeza's rapid fire ki attacks before he gives the "I am the Super Saiyan" speech. If a finger/Death Beam fired by 4th form Freeza to Goku's chin as a regular SSJ doesn't harm him, than a common ray ring laser to an even more powerful version of Goku should definitely not work either.

[Sodhi]

To be really honest that scene does not make sense to me at all. I mean if freeza caught him off guard then I would have no problems with the scene. However Sorbet caught him off guard when he was ssgss or ssb, I call that BS. Diffrenece between that "Ray gun" and ssgs/ssb goku is HUGE. I mean take humans for example. If I stab someone from the back and they are weak, I may kill them. However if a person is strong he may look back and kick my ass(Yes in both of these situations people are off guard).

[FTW395]

God I really hope this time Vegeta won't die by the planet explosion, but because of the lack of oxygen. Him dying because of the planet explosion was such a stupid anti-feat.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

To be really honest that scene does not make sense to me at all. I mean if freeza caught him off guard then I would have no problems with the scene. However Sorbet caught him off guard when he was ssgss or ssb, I call that BS. Diffrenece between that "Ray gun" and ssgs/ssb goku is HUGE. I mean take humans for example. If I stab someone from the back and they are weak, I may kill them. However if a person is strong he may look back and kick my ass(Yes in both of these situations people are off guard).

That's a poor example because Sorbet shot Goku. A better example would be if you shot someone in the back with a gun while they're were off guard and they certainly wouldn't kick your ass they'd probably be dead.

[Bullza]

God I really hope this time Vegeta won't die by the planet explosion, but because of the lack of oxygen. Him dying because of the planet explosion was such a stupid anti-feat.

Nothing said he died due to the explosion last time. Frieza was still alive so if the explosion didn't kill him then it wouldn't have killed Vegeta.

[Darkblade1995]

The home release rankings are in, and DB Super came in at 16 with the Blu-Ray version, and 22nd with the DVD version

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... r-6/.96232
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... r-6/.96233