"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by FutureGohanSSJ2 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:25 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Toriyama has only been stated to have ties with the Universe 6 material. If you want to work with a Toriyama "canon" (ugh), then for now the films are the closest you''ll get to a continuation of the manga. With all the references though, the first two arcs of Super are definitely in the continuity of the anime, with Kai probably being the better fit.
But you can't go with the movies. There's too much stuff that's not explained in them. And even more stuff that caused so much confusion, and I'm so thankful they removed it in Super (ex: Goku turning back into God mode for a second).

And the movies won't have a continuation. So unless you're canon is Battle Of Gods, Resurrection F, and then Season 3 of Super, but for some reason not the first 2 seasons... See? It doesn't make sense. Super still has some questions and continuity issues but it's so far the most complete story of Battle Of Gods and Resurrection F. And Super just changes so much, and it just feels so much more Toriyama.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:35 pm

You can absolutely go with the movies. Just because you and/or others view some of those aspects as flaws that render them invalid as continuation candidates, doesn't mean they actually are. The manga itself has flaws. It had plot holes, it has unanswered questions, it has segments of bad storytelling. You can't condemn them for doing exactly what Toriyama's original material did before them. That's not how things work. You don't have to like/accept them, and no one can/will force you to, but they are a completely valid option for other people.

As for the films not having a continuation? You cannot say that as a fact yet, That could be what the announcement two weeks from now will be about, or maybe both will just be expected to feed into Super's Universe 6 material. Who knows; I don't even see the point in worrying about this now.

Super as a whole doesn't feel more like Toriyama though. There are more elements of his writing being worked in, but it still feels a lot like a Toei product in terms of a lot of the humor and stuff. That doesn't inherently make it bad though.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by sintzu » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:40 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Toriyama has only been stated to have ties with the Universe 6 material.
I'm always reading this so could you please provide a link to where this is stated ?
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Chuquita » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:47 pm

*Nods*. Super's Gokû is definitely different from BOG/F Gokû. Super's Gokû is sweeter and needs a little more taking care of, BOG/F's Gokû has more of a bite to him and seems more competent. I like them both, so....
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Also! Photos of the cover of this month's NewType are out (the cover is Kiss-Shot from Monogatari) meaning it's only a matter of time before the next set of episode titles for Super are revealed~! :mrgreen:
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by FutureGohanSSJ2 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:49 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:You can absolutely go with the movies. Just because you and/or others view some of those aspects as flaws that render them invalid as continuation candidates, doesn't mean they actually are. The manga itself has flaws. It had plot holes, it has unanswered questions, it has segments of bad storytelling. You can't condemn them for doing exactly what Toriyama's original material did before them. That's not how things work.

As for the films having a continuation? That could be what the announcement two weeks from now will be about, or maybe both will just be expected to feed into Super's Universe 6 material. Who knows; I don't even see the point in worry about this now. Super as a whole doesn't feel more like Toriyama though. There are more elements of his writing being worked in, but it still feels a lot like a Toei product in terms of a lot of the humor and stuff. That doesn't inherently make it bad though.
No. You can't. They literally made the films to be just that: Films. They have things in them purely to get people in the seats. I don't know how you can say the movies are canon when we have an Official Press Release by Toei stating Super is the Complete Continuation of the Majin Buu arc. And we have confirmation Toriyama is overseeing the anime. And again, the movies have holes. Holes that aren't present in Super. I'm not saying Dragon Ball is perfect, because it's not, but to go with the films that have more holes than the show just because, "Eh, the original manga had holes too, so..." isn't a very fair assessment, if I were to say so politely.

And no, this is totally more Toriyama. Everyone is so much more in character. I'm sorry, Resurrection F Freeza effing sucked. He was my biggest complaint about the whole film. I rewatched the entire Freeza saga via Kai before going to go see the film, and Freeza majorly disappointed me. He was spewing one-liners, crying like a baby that Beerus was interrupting his fight, and other non-Freeza stuff. But do you know why? Because it's a movie. It's supposed to do that. This is a series. It's different. I literally am so happy that Freeza is...actually acting like FREEZA again. And I can guarantee you, this wasn't Toei.

Lemme tell you something about Toei. They hate Krillin. Any effing chance they get to make him look like an idiot to get a cheap laugh out of the audience, I guarantee you, they'll do it. And it happens in RF! Krillin runs into a damn tree like an idiot and has to be saved. In Super? He overcomes his PTSD and has a genuinely badass moment. I promise you, that was NOT Toei. I'm telling you. Super BLEEDS Toriyama, it's crazy.

And no, I highly doubt that announcement in 2 weeks will be a movie about the Champa arc. Who would pay to go see that? By the time it finally hits theaters, we'll already be well into the Champa arc of Super.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Araki » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:54 pm

sintzu wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Toriyama has only been stated to have ties with the Universe 6 material.
I'm always reading this so could you please provide a link to where this is stated ?
He only said the series would start with the BoG arc, then RoF, followed by a new story he wrote with lots of new characters designs. The level of involvement he has with the current episodes is anyone's guess, but some people throw around assumptions as facts, it's the internet after all.

It doesn't help that the show credits him for the story ever since the first episode and it's not like they'll change the credits when the U6 arc starts.

I believe some people think he's not involved because he's not writing episodes, but then again, that's not his role. He has in Super the same credit he got in BoG, where he was not the screenwriter.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:57 pm

There's nothing absolutely ruling out him having a hand in the first two arcs, but all the stuff we've had mentions him makes him seem like he's only working on the new material. The latest instance of this was the Yamamuro interview that one website said confirmed a new movie. It had him say something akin to they are retelling Battle of Gods and Resurrection "F" before adding in Toriyama's original material. That makes it sound like he's not really tied to the stuff before it in Super.

It seems kinda obvious though. Toriyama often complains about Toei not understanding his version of Goku's character, and Super basically glossed over bits of development Goku got in the films (more specifically BOG) as if they didn't want their version of the character to have that same "poison". It's honestly made Goku a bit less interesting, and a bit more annoying in the series.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Chuquita » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:07 am

Gokû feels more like the protagonist from a four-panel slice-of-life manga in Super compared to Toriyama!Gokû in BOG/F imo. It's possible Toei just wanted to do their own thing with him. Even though I think Super!Gokû is really cute, I won't deny that he feels kinda ooc.

It's interesting to me because not too many of Super's characters feel that different from their BOG/F counterparts; Gokû might just stand out to me because he's one of my favorites though, so it's not like I'm focusing too much on the differences between the cast as a whole. Vegeta feels all over the place in Super to me where he felt more consistent in BOG/F; but that might be a writer thing. Different writers on Super see Vegeta through different lenses; they're not all in agreement I think.

I do really like Whis in Super. Where at the end of F he was just kinda there, he came more into his own in Super and feels more multi-dimensional. Whis entertains me more now than he did in the movies.
Beerus I liked better in BOG/F though where he had more cat-like traits. I liked his cat-attention-span and cat-like hand-motions that he'd break out at times. (Also speaking of; his break-dancing! What an intentional/unintentional joke; 'What kind of dance would a god of destruction know?' 'Break-dancing!' -Canned laughter-)
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by FutureGohanSSJ2 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:11 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:There's nothing absolutely ruling out him having a hand in the first two arcs, but all the stuff we've had mentions him makes him seem like he's only working on the new material. The latest instance of this was the Yamamuro interview that one website said confirmed a new movie. It had him say something akin to they are retelling Battle of Gods and Resurrection "F" before adding in Toriyama's original material. That makes it sound like he's not really tied to the stuff before it in Super.

It seems kinda obvious though. Toriyama often complains about Toei not understanding his version of Goku's character, and Super basically glossed over bits of development Goku got in the films (more specifically BOG) as if they didn't want their version of the character to have that same "poison". It's honestly made Goku a bit less interesting, and a bit more annoying in the series.
Are you kidding? Super has only made Goku MORE in character and MORE in line with what Toriyama believes it to be. Goku here is more selfish about getting stronger than ever before.

And no dude. I see where you're coming from, but you're letting your assumptions get the better of you. We have no official word stating exactly how much involvement Toriyama is having with Super, but the press release stated he's overseeing the anime. And by that, it means the whole thing.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Khin » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:44 am

I think Toriyama is the one who handles the new things about this retelling like Champa/Vados appearance and some other major changes but TOEI does the thing that was already shown in the movie.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:16 am

sintzu wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Toriyama has only been stated to have ties with the Universe 6 material.
I'm always reading this so could you please provide a link to where this is stated ?
I’ve written a strange new story where they finally depart from this universe. They’re fighting against their neighbors, Universe 6! They’ll yell at me if I give away too many spoilers
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Sodhi » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:18 am

Upcoming episode titles and summaries of dragon ball super are out. If someone could translate these, it would be great.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Xeztin » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:19 am

I personally believe Toriyama wrote the plot for both the movies, and gave bullet cards to Toei for the retelling in Super. I believe after this, Toei sends bullet cards to Toyotaro and Toriyama probably more or less looks over his artwork. Before Super's manga took off on it's own, it kept a few steady paces behind the anime and this is why I believe he is told what to do story-wise by Toei instead of Toriyama himself. As far as the Champa material goes, I'd bet Toriyama already had the plot and it was probably intended to be a movie. After the series came out though, Toei probably wanted it for the anime series itself. The reason I think this is because they said "Jump ahead with Champa material". Again, I think Toei are giving him bullet cards for the manga even for the U6 arc. Basically to sum it up, I believe U6 was planned to be a movie, but instead by the release of ROF they decided to do a anime. Toei has to be telling Toyotaro how to proceed, if they didn't they'd probably step on each others toes.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:32 am

Sodhi wrote:Upcoming episode titles and summaries of dragon ball super are out. If someone could translate these, it would be great.
Looks like there are different, or maybe shortened summaries, on the one you posted in the animators thread:
Seems we only get one new title this time. You should wait for someone who knows what they are doing more than myself, but 24 seems to be something like "Clash! Freeza vs. Son Goku - This is the result of my training!" and 25 & 26 remain nameless like the Ginyu body switch episode last time,
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by SaiyanZ » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:42 am

Toriyama's entire script for the FnF film was translated by Herms. We have confirmation that he wrote the scripts for both. I'm with SSJ2FutureGohan, Super's versions of the films are superior to the films themselves but I don't think one is necessarily more canon than the other just because its better written.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by WhisPL » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:45 am

SaiyanZ wrote:Toriyama's entire script for the FnF film was translated by Herms. We have confirmation that he wrote the scripts for both. I'm with SSJ2FutureGohan, Super's versions of the films are superior to the films themselves but I don't think one is necessarily more canon than the other just because its better written.
Can I get a link to it?

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by SaiyanZ » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:50 am

EDIT: deleted
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by WhisPL » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:56 am

Thank you
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:01 am

SaiyanZ wrote:I hope this is allowed but if it gets removed I'll PM you too: SNIP
There is a reason Herms deleted that translation from the forum in the first place...
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by SaiyanZ » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:24 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
SaiyanZ wrote:I hope this is allowed but if it gets removed I'll PM you too: SNIP
There is a reason Herms deleted that translation from the forum in the first place...
Noted. Got rid of post, don't know how to delete
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