Gohan's lack of Mystic form explained?

[irreality]

i don't know, I have a different theory: I think they are trying to level the playing field so that more characters can occasionally be useful.

Instead of having like a bunch of different orders of magnitude of powers that are so large nobody can catch up, you simplify it to:

God level: where you find Beerus, Goku, Vegeta, etc -- main boss battles are here
Over SSJ level: where you find Buu, Gotenks, Gohan if angry, and Piccolo, etc -- mini boss battle here
Somewhere below SSJ level: Krillin, Tenshinhan, Jaco, anyone else they want fighting -- random filler battles can be here

This way, there is less to keep track, and you can have more allies fighting different tiers of opponents. Instead of having every character be x2 as strong as the next character, so there is only a very specific range of fighter only they find challenging, and everyone else either curb stomps them or is instantly defeated -- you instead move to a model that anyone in a given "range" is a fairly equivalent fighter that can fight other fighters of that class.

[BluePiccolo]

i don't know, I have a different theory: I think they are trying to level the playing field so that more characters can occasionally be useful.

Instead of having like a bunch of different orders of magnitude of powers that are so large nobody can catch up, you simplify it to:

God level: where you find Beerus, Goku, Vegeta, etc -- main boss battles are here
Over SSJ level: where you find Buu, Gotenks, Gohan if angry, and Piccolo, etc -- mini boss battle here
Somewhere below SSJ level: Krillin, Tenshinhan, Jaco, anyone else they want fighting -- random filler battles can be here

This way, there is less to keep track, and you can have more allies fighting different tiers of opponents. Instead of having every character be x2 as strong as the next character, so there is only a very specific range of fighter only they find challenging, and everyone else either curb stomps them or is instantly defeated -- you instead move to a model that anyone in a given "range" is a fairly equivalent fighter that can fight other fighters of that class.

Sounds like a One Piece formula right there...

[irreality]

Sorry, I don't know anything about One Piece…

It seems like a logical solution to the eternal wheel of ever increasing power levels.

[Lord Beerus]

But the thing is that Goku now in his base form is already stronger than anyone else. So why continue to omit those forms?

Because it's not enough for Goku to be made more special. Other characters have to be made less special in turn.

So it's bassically GT all over again. Son of a bitch. At least Toriyama is throwing a bone to Majin Boo and Piccolo in the U6 arc, so not all hope is lost.

[dbzfan7]

Because those things made them stronger than Goku (and Vegeta, but mostly Goku), and we simply can't allow that in modern, Toei-heralded Dragon Ball.

Goku is bestest. Goku is supreme. Gotta ignore half the Majin Boo arc's events and rewrite the story even as we're telling it, all to make Goku the strongest.

But the thing is that Goku now in his base form is already stronger than anyone else. So why continue to omit those forms?

Because it's not enough for Goku to be made more special. Other characters have to be made less special in turn.

And that is exactly what I see when I watch Super. The glorification of Goku (and Vegeta to a lesser extent), while making everyone else less special and less relevant. It's why the slice of life stuff comes off as more enjoyable than the fighting, because it's the only time strength doesn't matter to the overall story, and so other characters don't have to worry about being fodder.

[irreality]

Dragon Ball is not, and has never been, an ensemble series. It is a show with a main character who will always be more special and more relevant than the rest of the cast.

[LightBing]

Dragon Ball is not, and has never been, an ensemble series. It is a show with a main character who will always be more special and more relevant than the rest of the cast.

I disagree, partially. Starting with the Saiyan Arc, Dragon Ball has become an ensemble series. Although Goku usually saves the day at the end of the arc, he's has been mostly on the sidelines, while the others characters fight and move the plot forward. He only appears at the end during the Vegeta's invasion. During Namek, he arrives pretty late and then passes a huge amount of time in a healing chamber. With the Androids he's mostly sick and then training. Finally during the Boo Arc, he plays as an important part as Gohan, Vegeta or the kids.
I agree he's still the more important character. With the RoF Arc, his status appears to have become equal with Vegeta.

[Kaboom]

Dragon Ball is not, and has never been, an ensemble series. It is a show with a main character who will always be more special and more relevant than the rest of the cast.

On the whole, I'm fine with that. But it's still low and extremely annoying to have the main character glorified at the expense of the supporting cast.

[Muffin Man]

Hmm...

I think it's less about "ensemble" versus "solo" (Resurrection F focused a ton of screen time on the lesser fighters, after all, plus Goku shared screen time with Vegeta, Beerus, and Whis), and more about "status quo" versus "variation". DB and DBZ have alway been about change, and the characters were always shifting around in relation to each other. By establishing the three set "tiers" that Irreality mentioned, they basically are establishing a permanent "status quo" as opposed to the constant evolution of DB/DBZ. Much like how the different tiers of power in something like Justice League or Avengers will alway remain static, so will the power relations in Super always remain static. Or at least that's how it seems it'll be.

[buutenks]

Hmm,how is goku and vegeta being glorified by the expense of the other z fighters?

Also,why does it matter if gohan cant go 'mystic' anymore but instead needs to go ssj to tap into that power?Whats the difference?

[apex_pretador]

I don't see any problem here

- Gets a power-up , no need to go SS
- Even if he will go SS, no power will increase ( as he's maxed out )
- Mystic is not a form , but a powerup which releases & amps his full power (SS3)
- Gohan doesn't train, so he is somehow unable to go FP in base , but is still comparable to piccolo
- Gohan needs to go SS to tap his FP , so he does. He can't maintain it for long as it is basically a SS3 in his FP.

[ZombieVito]

I don't see any problem here

- Gets a power-up , no need to go SS
- Even if he will go SS, no power will increase ( as he's maxed out )
- Mystic is not a form , but a powerup which releases & amps his full power (SS3)
- Gohan doesn't train, so he is somehow unable to go FP in base , but is still comparable to piccolo
- Gohan needs to go SS to tap his FP , so he does. He can't maintain it for long as it is basically a SS3 in his FP.

This is the most likely scenario since Tagoma's hiding power was said to maybe be as strong as Gohan at his best (which is Mystic). Ginyu was also not that damaged by Gohan's hits. He actually seemed fine afterwards.

[buutenks]

I don't see any problem here

- Gets a power-up , no need to go SS
- Even if he will go SS, no power will increase ( as he's maxed out )
- Mystic is not a form , but a powerup which releases & amps his full power (SS3)
- Gohan doesn't train, so he is somehow unable to go FP in base , but is still comparable to piccolo
- Gohan needs to go SS to tap his FP , so he does. He can't maintain it for long as it is basically a SS3 in his FP.

This is the most likely scenario since Tagoma's hiding power was said to maybe be as strong as Gohan at his best (which is Mystic). Ginyu was also not that damaged by Gohan's hits. He actually seemed fine afterwards.

That wouldnt make much sense though,since gohan clearly got weaker and still facerolled tagoma once he went ssj.So id say tagoma is ssj2 tier,why ssj gohan floored him so easily.

[apex_pretador]

That wouldnt make much sense though,since gohan clearly got weaker and still facerolled tagoma once he went ssj.So id say tagoma is ssj2 tier,why ssj gohan floored him so easily.

Tagoma can be anywhere between Super PC and fat buu since he is between SS gotenks and piccolo.

[ZombieVito]

He should be stronger actually. Super Buu tier easily since SSJ Gohan's ki was felt at a much greater distance than Kaioshin's planet. This means that at the bare minimum he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku. There's no way SSJ Gohan is not close or equal to his Mystic power.

[Kishido]

Now they tried to explain it...

So he needs Super Saiyan to get the potential of Mstic back cuz of his lack of training.

But this would mean... if he starts training he doesn't need Super Saiyan again

[apex_pretador]

So, now confirmed, ss gohan ~ = mystic

[BluePiccolo]

Can I just say something real quick, just a rant, totally on topic:

GOHAN recovers TWICE from NEAR FATAL wounds (0% - 100% HP).
NO ZENKAI BOOST WHATSOEVER?!
He should be beyond his mystic power IMO.

[Lord Beerus]

Can I just say something real quick, just a rant, totally on topic:

GOHAN recovers TWICE from NEAR FATAL wounds (0% - 100% HP).
NO ZENKAI BOOST WHATSOEVER?!
He should be beyond his mystic power IMO.

Once you achieve SSJ, zenkai are pretty useless.

[BluePiccolo]

Can I just say something real quick, just a rant, totally on topic:

GOHAN recovers TWICE from NEAR FATAL wounds (0% - 100% HP).
NO ZENKAI BOOST WHATSOEVER?!
He should be beyond his mystic power IMO.

Once you achieve SSJ, zenkai are pretty useless.

Is that a legit thing, can you find the source for that info?