But you just tried to make the point that they were different because of their ranking systems.KaiserNeko wrote: Well, their ranking systems there are probably relatively similar, but I'd expect that out of almost any of the big villains in the series.
And Vegeta isn't a sadist who enjoys watching those who caused him frustration suffer? His fight with Goku as an Oozaru was pure torture. Also, he was clearly enjoying watching Nappa play with the Z-gang.I already covered that in a another post: With Piccolo, Gohan, and Goku, he's a sadist who enjoys watching those who caused him frustration suffer. Also, with Nail, he needed information
Again, Vegeta does the same thing. The only time we actually see him do anything beside fire a single finger beam and yell at people is when all of his henchmen are dead.But that's just it: He's like a mob boss in that manner. Sitting up at the top, making demands, and having his henchmen do the work for him. All from the comfort of his bubble car. Which, I remind you, is just another example of his indolence.
Where is that implied? He clearly doesn't give hard work any value, acts like a lazy git, and is angered when someone actually gives him a fight.It's definitely implied he's worked hard to get there; or, at the very least, he's worked his way there through actual combat and effort.
Okay, then why not take part in the game himself? Freeza's if anything more willing to get involved than Vegeta is.Is it crazy to think he's just enjoying himself and is taking it easy here? I'm sorry, it's just, I never thought of him as being lazy, it always just seemed like he was enjoying himself as the numbers fell and Nappa constantly uprooted every attempt at victory.
Why was he so precise? Why did he only stomp Goku's tiny legs rather than killing him with a stomp? He was so big that this had to deliberate.I actually do think he needed to break Goku's legs. At that point, Goku had proven over and over again how dangerous he was and crippling him was by far the safest bet.
So... same deal as Freeza. Again.As far as squeezing him goes... hard to argue that moment. Of course, after all that punishment he took... I can imagine him wanting to pay it back.
Yes, and the exact same thing applies to Vegeta in the Saiyan arc. Because Vegeta and Freeza are borderline identical characters. You can bring up how a later retcon said he was always aware of people stronger than him... but the exact same thing applies to Freeza.I said, "As he knows it". Freeza wholeheartedly considers himself top dog of the universe, as far as he's concerned. Hell, the only time he says otherwise is in Resurrection 'F'.
He cares for the same reason Freeza cares: one, ow, and two, he is a god who shouldn't be fazed by such a weakling.Except Vegeta does care about his race. Otherwise he wouldn't care so much that Goku damages him.
Actually, that's presented as a reason why he doesn't value his heritage; Nappa and Raditz, through their own actions (e.g. expecting their comrades to help them), indicate that his attitude isn't born out of a sense of pride for the saiyans, but out of a sense of pride for himself. He explicitly disregards saiyan customs to be even more of an asshole.He wouldn't be so strict on Nappa, Raditz, etc. His view of the Saiyan race is only the strongest may survive, the rest should perish... even if that means he's the only one left in the end. It's pretty screwed up, but that doesn't mean he does value his Saiyan heritage.
Because the caste system itself was based on nothing but power. Vegeta was simply explaining that, when they were both born, Vegeta was incredibly powerful, while Kakarot was a weakling. He doesn't give the social organization of the saiyan "culture" any value itself; he just uses their classifications as proof that he was born with a much higher power level than Goku. In fact, he was apparently the strongest saiyan ever just because of his blood alone, to the point that he was named after Planet Vegeta because he was so gifted. He's the strongest in the universe because he was born that way, and that's where his pride comes from. Which is... again, the exact same thing Freeza is proud of.Why would Vegeta care about Goku's place in the Saiyan caste system if he didn't care about his pride as Prince of the Saiyans, and by extension, his race?
He continued to refuse to get involved even when he was getting serious and yelling at Nappa to kill Gohan and Krillin before Goku could arrive. I don't know how you can explain that as anything other than extreme laziness.He doesn't refuse to get involved in combat himself, he just doesn't bother. Mostly because the plot calls for it, if you want my honest opinion. It never felt like he was refraining from battle purely out of laziness, but instead enjoying the show and letting Nappa have his fun.
When Vegeta actually figures out how strong Goku is (not even anywhere near his [Vegeta]'s own power, just not quite weak enough to swat like a bug), he gets extremely mad. Sure, he enjoys playing around with Goku somewhat when they're actually fighting... but that's just another trait of his that Freeza copied.He's openly curious about the prospect of Goku and certainly seems quite excited to face off against him once Nappa is disposed of. Meanwhile, Freeza calls the bloody Ginyu Force in and makes them deal with the problem, when everything would have been finished in moments had he just taken a scouter from them and done it himself.
Chapter: 310 (DBZ 116), P2.2-3
Freeza: “I didn’t think you’d be this good…This might be the first time in my life I’ve been so excited…”
Again, you're not actually describing a difference between them. You're describing them taking the same actions (not getting involved until all their henchmen are dead, despite easily having the ability to solve the problem), then saying one of them took those actions because of his personality, and the other did it because of "plot".
As I said, his father is still alive, so it's highly doubtful that Cold was actually seriously attacking him in whatever encounter that was. There's also the fact that he has a lot of ki techniques that he couldn't have just invented on the spot. Finally, he references having fought in different forms before, and at least practiced enough to create those transformations in the first place. All indications are that he trained.He references that the only person to ever put a speck of dust on him was his father. It's never explicitly said that he has trained.
That's a quirk in their vocabulary. The actual content of their speech is very similar, as their personalities are very similar. Slightly more eloquence does not a distinct character make.Freeza's manner of speech is a very high-minded, aristocratic approach; he speaks very formally, in a manner that seeks to disarm who he's talking to and control the flow of the conversation and the interaction. While Vegeta is witty, he's more roguish; he doesn't speak nearly as formally, he's quick to cut to chase, and while he does certainly condescend, the manner of which he does is very different.
I have no idea where you're getting this from. Freeza remains flowery and bombastic in his speech even when he's angry. And does Vegeta not become more vicious when he's angry? Again, I'm not actually seeing what the differences are here.I'm sorry, but the kind of responses from Freeza and Vegeta are distinctly different to me. Vegeta screams and loses his shit, but that comes off much more as reasonable anger and frustration. Freeza screeches, his entire manner of speech changes, and he becomes much more vicious and sadistic because of it, all contrasted against his unshakable flowery demeanor.
Except Vegeta had no guarantee he could get away with transforming into an Oozaru/beating down the tired Goku (it's not like he knew that Goku could only be that strong for five seconds), so like Freeza he lost his shit and fired at the planet.Except Freeza had no guarantee he could get away with going 100%; at that moment, he decided the safest bet was to just blow the planet up.
"There's nothing to prove that, except that time where it's proven, but that doesn't count".Comedy. I'm sorry, but that's all that was. Comedy. It's played both for laughs and to hearken back to days of old, given Freeza's response and expression. Sure, it does get him out of a bind, but it's not the first time DragonBall has done that. In terms of him losing his tail, I don't know what to tell you, but I just don't see his tail being a weakness. There's nothing to prove that, by any means.
True, but they're still similar scenes, and just pile on the already enormous similarities between the two characters.But that's not why he spares him. He did not spare Freeza for a better fight; otherwise, he wouldn't have hesitated. He did it because Freeza was pleading. After which, Goku basically tells him, "If you really want to get revenge on me, get stronger, and find me again. I'll be ready." He explicitly spares Vegeta for the sake of a better fight.
Okay, what indication is there that they'd treat their henchmen like Freeza did? Neither of them ever threaten to kill- or actually kill- their henchmen for failure. Heck, when Salza gets his two teammates kills, fails against Piccolo, and lets Gohan get away, Cooler's only response is to save him from Piccolo and tell him to go chase after Gohan. Freeza certainly wouldn't have done that. He just would've watched as his henchman was killed. Vegeta would do the same thing.It was never an option for those character. Their henchmen actually got things done. I highly doubt Cooler wouldn't have put a hole in Sauza if he deemed him unnecessary. He's the brother of Freeza and son of King Cold; they seemed pretty okay with killing off the weak.
There's more to a "rip-off" than just taking the basic premise. They have nothing in common besides "villain is now a cyborg". If you're getting that broad, you can accuse half of fiction of being a "rip-off" of something. Including Cyborg Freeza. It's especially weird to call Metal Cooler a rip-off while arguing that Freeza himself isn't a rip-off, despite almost everything about him being copied from Vegeta, right down to some of his fight choreography. The full list of similarities could fill a few pages.It is a rip-off, because they literally mechanized another of Freeza's race after being defeated by Goku. retrieving his body floating in space... under a year after it happened in the manga. I'm sorry, that's a rehashed concept. Sure, they change everything else, but it's still the same basic concept fresh on everyone's minds.
Why didn't he just tell Ginyu to do it if he was so lazy? Ginyu volunteered, but Freeza said he wanted to do it himself.Yes. After everyone continuously dropping the ball, he needed to finally get the answer himself. Even he got tired of it all. He needed answers and, at that point, could not risk anyone else flubbing it up.
Firing a finger beam is more than he needed to do, and it honestly would barely take him any more effort to kill everyone on the planet.A tiny little blast to help motivate the townsfolk into giving him what he wants? My, such hard work.
So... just like when Vegeta commits genocide. Well, fun and profit.Oh, we know why he did that. That was for funsies.
