Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

I'm going off by Dragon Team (waiting for the update on the facts thread) subs. There's no mention of "current" best at all in there. There's also the fact that Ginyu calls Gohan disappointing and his power puny.

Herms outright said that the way you're interpreting the statement is incorrect. I'm not sure why he needs to say it again. Furthermore, in the newest episode Gohan says that he no longer has the power to defend everyone (in the context of fighting Freeza), which implies that Ultimate Gohan could at least kick 1st form Freeza's ass.

I haven't seen that post. It doesn't make sense though, Gohan just ate a senzu there. There's also the fact that SSJ Gohan was felt on Beerus planet, which implies he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku at least.

Ugh this is messed up. SSJ Gohan > Ginyu = Gohan > Tagoma > Piccolo? How the hell does that work with SSJ's multiplier?

Not really. The Kaioshin Realm is a whole different dimension, Beerus's planet isn't. Hell, even if he was able to be sensed from the Kaioshin Realm, that wouldn't imply he's stronger than SS3 Goku. It'd imply he's around as strong as SS3 Goku's fuckin' around level vs fatty, or possibly weaker (since that Goku's ki grabbed everyone, while SS Gohan's didn't).

Again, anime logic. The difference between SS and base is less than x2, the difference between SS2 and SS3 is about x1.25. Or, you know, you could just assume he isn't stronger than Piccolo, there's nothing really contradicting that.

Since Goku didn't feel Freeza's ki even concentrating and then felt Gohan's ki, could it be that Gohan briefly surpassed Freeza in his frustration power-up?

Goten and Trunks didn't feel Freeza's Ki either, only Tagoma's. It's more likely that Freeza is simply suppressed or, at least, not making his hostile intent clear.

Freeza exerted himself to attack Gohan, did they sense him then? Doesn't seem like it.

[ZombieVito]

I haven't seen that post. It doesn't make sense though, Gohan just ate a senzu there. There's also the fact that SSJ Gohan was felt on Beerus planet, which implies he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku at least.

Ugh this is messed up. SSJ Gohan > Ginyu = Gohan > Tagoma > Piccolo? How the hell does that work with SSJ's multiplier?

How does that imply anything? Beerus' planet is in the universe, not in an alternate dimension.

You're making this up to be more complicated than it needs to be. SS Gohan > Ginyu > Tagoma > Piccolo > Base Gohan, what's so wrong about that? I repeat, both base Gohan and Piccolo had a shit performance against Tagoma/Ginyu, there's absolutely nothing that tells us that Gohan's stronger.

The distance between Beerus planet and Earth is way bigger than the distance between it and the Kaioshin world. SSJ Gohan should be > SSJ3 Goku.

How can Piccolo be stronger than base Gohan if Ginyu is comparable to him?

[LightBing]

Base Gohan is stronger than Piccolo. He was called the most dangerous fighter and they didn't even know he could go SSJ. He rushes Ginyu in base and has a much better performance than Piccolo.

SSJ multipliers don't work here. Gohan can't go Mystic anymore but he does put out a part of that power in base. He needs SSJ to access the full extent of the power he had before. However, because he lacked training his body can't sustain that power for long. Don't forget Elder Kai's power up pushed Gohan's potential beyond his limits, if he didn't train it seems logical he'd lost it. His body having difficulty handling it is akin to the Kaioken technique, power the body can't hold.

SSJ Gohan(Equal to Mystic Gohan) > Ginyu > Base Gohan = Tagoma > Piccolo

[Blackstripe]

Base Gohan is stronger than Piccolo. He was called the most dangerous fighter and they didn't even know he could go SSJ. He rushes Ginyu in base and has a much better performance than Piccolo.

SSJ multipliers don't work here. Gohan can't go Mystic anymore but he does put out a part of that power in base. He needs SSJ to access the full extent of the power he had before. However, because he lacked training his body can't sustain that power for long. Don't forget Elder Kai's power up pushed Gohan's potential beyond his limits, if he didn't train it seems logical he'd lost it. His body having difficulty handling it is akin to the Kaioken technique, power the body can't hold.

SSJ Gohan(Equal to Mystic Gohan) > Ginyu > Base Gohan = Tagoma > Piccolo

I agree for the most part, but Base Gohan was not stronger than Tagoma. Tagoma laughed off his attack.

[Pannaliciour]

I haven't seen that post. It doesn't make sense though, Gohan just ate a senzu there. There's also the fact that SSJ Gohan was felt on Beerus planet, which implies he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku at least.

Ugh this is messed up. SSJ Gohan > Ginyu = Gohan > Tagoma > Piccolo? How the hell does that work with SSJ's multiplier?

How does that imply anything? Beerus' planet is in the universe, not in an alternate dimension.

You're making this up to be more complicated than it needs to be. SS Gohan > Ginyu > Tagoma > Piccolo > Base Gohan, what's so wrong about that? I repeat, both base Gohan and Piccolo had a shit performance against Tagoma/Ginyu, there's absolutely nothing that tells us that Gohan's stronger.

The distance between Beerus planet and Earth is way bigger than the distance between it and the Kaioshin world. SSJ Gohan should be > SSJ3 Goku.

How can Piccolo be stronger than base Gohan if Ginyu is comparable to him?

How do you know that?

[ZombieVito]

The distance between Beerus planet and Earth is way bigger than the distance between it and the Kaioshin world. SSJ Gohan should be > SSJ3 Goku.

How can Piccolo be stronger than base Gohan if Ginyu is comparable to him?

How do you know that?

Very simple. Goku had no problem using IT to get to Earth from the Kaioshin planet.

[LightBing]

Base Gohan is stronger than Piccolo. He was called the most dangerous fighter and they didn't even know he could go SSJ. He rushes Ginyu in base and has a much better performance than Piccolo.

SSJ multipliers don't work here. Gohan can't go Mystic anymore but he does put out a part of that power in base. He needs SSJ to access the full extent of the power he had before. However, because he lacked training his body can't sustain that power for long. Don't forget Elder Kai's power up pushed Gohan's potential beyond his limits, if he didn't train it seems logical he'd lost it. His body having difficulty handling it is akin to the Kaioken technique, power the body can't hold.

SSJ Gohan(Equal to Mystic Gohan) > Ginyu > Base Gohan = Tagoma > Piccolo

I agree for the most part, but Base Gohan was not stronger than Tagoma. Tagoma laughed off his attack.

You're right, I was remembering Gohan line about Tagoma being comparable to him. He was proven wrong later.

[RandomGuy96]

Actually, now that I think about it, Pure Buu could sense SS1 Goku in the Kaioshin Realm.

[ZombieVito]

Actually, now that I think about it, Pure Buu could sense SS1 Goku in the Kaioshin Realm.

Good point but weren't they SSJ2?

[ekrolo2]

Actually, now that I think about it, Pure Buu could sense SS1 Goku in the Kaioshin Realm.

Good point but weren't they SSJ2?

They did some goofier and more relaxed facial expressions which suggests they were regular SSJs.

[RandomGuy96]

Actually, now that I think about it, Pure Buu could sense SS1 Goku in the Kaioshin Realm.

Good point but weren't they SSJ2?

Maybe in the anime, but they weren't in the manga. Either way, it confirms you don't need to be a SS3-tier to be sensed from the Kaioshin Realm (and Beerus's planet isn't in a whole other dimension, like Kaioshin's is). Oh, and I'll ask again: did Goku and Vegeta sense 1st form Freeza while he was exerting himself to attack?

[Pannaliciour]

The distance between Beerus planet and Earth is way bigger than the distance between it and the Kaioshin world. SSJ Gohan should be > SSJ3 Goku.

How can Piccolo be stronger than base Gohan if Ginyu is comparable to him?

How do you know that?

Very simple. Goku had no problem using IT to get to Earth from the Kaioshin planet.

Very simple here to, because he had Buutenks AND mystic Gohan powerlevels lock.

[SansrivaaL]

Is it safe to assume that 1st form Freeza<<<<<Sorbet?
Goku base form no selled Freeza's laser while Sorbet pierced him

Just kidding... tho seriously I hope they do something about that "certain" scene where a certain saiyan thats beyond God got rekt by a fodder.

[pacz360]

Is it safe to assume that 1st form Freeza<<<<<Sorbet?
Goku base form no selled Freeza's laser while Sorbet pierced him

Just kidding... tho seriously I hope they do something about that "certain" scene where a certain saiyan thats beyond God got rekt by a fodder.

Doesn't Goku have ability to heal considering in super bog beerus pierced him but goku heal himself

[SansrivaaL]

Is it safe to assume that 1st form Freeza<<<<<Sorbet?
Goku base form no selled Freeza's laser while Sorbet pierced him

Just kidding... tho seriously I hope they do something about that "certain" scene where a certain saiyan thats beyond God got rekt by a fodder.

Doesn't Goku have ability to heal considering in super bog beerus pierced him but goku heal himself

They may forget or probably pull a "that only works for the ritual type Super Saiyan God"
Whis still explained how Goku drops his guard making him fragile and Krillin mentioned they saved one senzu incase someone needs it giving me the feeling that they'll still pull that off.

[Darkron2151]

A couple things:

• 1. Would it be necessarily wrong to assume that Gohan had different SSJ Multiplier when battling Ginyu?
  
  2. Would it also be wrong to assume that the suppression gap between 1st form and True Form Freeza in FNF isn't as big as it was on Namek? With more mastery of his power, to the point where he discovered a new evolution, it would make his suppression forms sort of obsolete. So instead of being at ~.5% of his full power in his first form, could it possibly be higher like say 5-10% in Super?

[Bullza]

Would it be necessarily wrong to assume that Gohan had different SSJ Multiplier when battling Ginyu?

That's how I figure it. Elder Kai unlocked his power to the full 100%. Due to not training for years his power dropped to....who knows, say 30% for example and turning Super Saiyan boosts him back up to 100%.

[ZombieVito]

Actually, now that I think about it, Pure Buu could sense SS1 Goku in the Kaioshin Realm.

Good point but weren't they SSJ2?

Maybe in the anime, but they weren't in the manga. Either way, it confirms you don't need to be a SS3-tier to be sensed from the Kaioshin Realm (and Beerus's planet isn't in a whole other dimension, like Kaioshin's is). Oh, and I'll ask again: did Goku and Vegeta sense 1st form Freeza while he was exerting himself to attack?

Was he really exerting himself? Gohan was pretty much dead when Freeza attacked. I doubt he pulled that much strength into that last beam.

[GodVegetto91]

Evidence to suggest Base Goku(Post training with Whis) = SSJ God level..
SSGSS is the result of turning super saiyan after you've fully absorbed and mastered ssj god power in Base.
Remember in Super after the God Form wear off and Beerus told him he has now "fully merged" with the power of a god? Well that was ofcourse refering to his super saiyan form.
so SSJ = SSJ God
Yeah sure at that point Goku's base was still weaker ofcourse. But the idea is for to Goku not just to master his god power in super saiyan(as he already has it) but rather (truly making it his own) in base.. And so after training with Whis for 4 months Goku fully regained his ssj god power in base AND THEN turning super saiyan on top of it! To become even stronger.. Just think about it.




And here in this latest image you can see Goku explaining: "It's the Super Saiyan Form of a saiyan who has the power of a super saiyan god." obviously refering to Base here.

So yeah the answer was right in front of us all along right here in these images that i posted^^

[Bullza]

I'm still not seeing it at all.

It makes no sense for the base Saiyans to be that strong and then for Frieza to be taken aback by Goku's power jump when he transforms into a SSJB when he'd still be no match for Frieza.

It'd be a transformation that'd taken him from a 6 to a 7?

The gap between base and SSJB was also large enough for Vegeta to still need to transform to fight a weakened Golden Frieza.

There's nothing to suggest Goku regained his SSJG strenght in base. Vegeta never became a God at all yet he was able to keep up with him just due to the intense training.

Also different translations say different things about SSJB. For one being that it is simply a Super Saiyan that has the power of a SSJG. SSJB itself apparently has nothing to do with SSJG.

Vegeta said he had "the power of a God" but not that he was one.

I'd say they just got Super duper strong from all of Whis' training and they somehow got this new Super Saiyan form which just has similiar strenght to SSJG.