"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[GodVegetto91]

Okay fellas it's friday now in japan.. Where's the big announcement?
And the japanese text/summary of the manga??

[JulieYBM]

Making stuff to teach kids never turns out good. Don't make art out of obligation, make to express yourself. Running around with a preachy message about feminism is the least condusive manner to conduct oneself. The franchise already has good female characters, there's no need to be loud and abrasive about it.

[FortuneSSJ]

Making stuff to teach kids never turns out good. Don't make art out of obligation, make to express yourself.

Talking about the kids.

If the reason, why Goten/Trunks don't grow up is because of marketing / for the kids to have anyone to relate to, seems a stupid movie to me. Characters always grew up in this series. It was a risky move with Goku, but Toriyama did it and here we are.

When I was a kid, me and my friends only cared about characters: Goku, Gohan (which grew up), Piccolo, Vegeta and Future Trunks. Barely anyone cared about Goten and Kid Trunks. I only remembered a time, I was talking with a friend about how Goten could become the strongest, because he was the youngest ssj. We only loved the fusion.

Anyway if that's the case, Pan and Uub could take their place.

[JulieYBM]

I think the only reason Goten and Trunks haven't changed is because the second they do we get closer to "the cast is too old" which is why Toriyama kept wanting to 'go back' rather than continuing on from the ending.

[Black_Liger]

I think the only reason Goten and Trunks haven't changed is because the second they do we get closer to "the cast is too old" which is why Toriyama kept wanting to 'go back' rather than continuing on from the ending.

If he really thinks that, I don't get his reasoning, we would get a load of young cast if time passed.

Marron
Bra
Uub
Pan
Not!Gohan

and he can even bring more now that he crossed the line to bring child like characters like tarble and Not!Gohan

[omaro34]

Okay fellas it's friday now in japan.. Where's the big announcement?
And the japanese text/summary of the manga??

What big announcement? I thought Chapter 7 was already leaked.

[omaro34]

Making stuff to teach kids never turns out good. Don't make art out of obligation, make to express yourself.

Talking about the kids.

If the reason, why Goten/Trunks don't grow up is because of marketing / for the kids to have anyone to relate to, seems a stupid movie to me. Characters always grew up in this series. It was a risky move with Goku, but Toriyama did it and here we are.

When I was a kid, me and my friends only cared about characters: Goku, Gohan (which grew up), Piccolo, Vegeta and Future Trunks. Barely anyone cared about Goten and Kid Trunks. I only remembered a time, I was talking with a friend about how Goten could become the strongest, because he was the youngest ssj. We only loved the fusion.

Anyway if that's the case, Pan and Uub could take their place.

There's only one problem I had with Goten and Trunks. Don't get me wrong, I love them as characters, but I just felt that them turning into Super Saiyans felt way too premature. In the earlier arcs, the tales of the legendary Super Saiyan was something that was considered the pinnacle of strength. It was every Saiyan's dream. By the time the Buu saga rolled around that tale became a joke, and even 7 year old kids can achieve it without flying.

Goku and Vegeta had to train constantly and get into many battles before they transformed, and they hadn't achieved it until they were full grown adults.

Hard work should be earned, not given.

[kinisking]

Making stuff to teach kids never turns out good. Don't make art out of obligation, make to express yourself.

Talking about the kids.

If the reason, why Goten/Trunks don't grow up is because of marketing / for the kids to have anyone to relate to, seems a stupid movie to me. Characters always grew up in this series. It was a risky move with Goku, but Toriyama did it and here we are.

When I was a kid, me and my friends only cared about characters: Goku, Gohan (which grew up), Piccolo, Vegeta and Future Trunks. Barely anyone cared about Goten and Kid Trunks. I only remembered a time, I was talking with a friend about how Goten could become the strongest, because he was the youngest ssj. We only loved the fusion.

Anyway if that's the case, Pan and Uub could take their place.

There's only one problem I had with Goten and Trunks. Don't get me wrong, I love them as characters, but I just felt that them turning into Super Saiyans felt way too premature. In the earlier arcs, the tales of the legendary Super Saiyan was something that was considered the pinnacle of strength. It was every Saiyan's dream. By the time the Buu saga rolled around that tale became a joke, and even 7 year old kids can achieve it without flying.

Goku and Vegeta had to train constantly and get into many battles before they transformed, and they hadn't achieved it until they were full grown adults.

Hard work should be earned, not given.

I really think it has more to do with them having no tails. Seriously, the whole cast has no tails. And they can all go super saiyan. Same with the new saiyan, again no tails. I think the lack of a tail makes it possible to go super saiyan, and since goten and trunks weren't even born with one it was much easier.

[Basaku]

Making stuff to teach kids never turns out good. Don't make art out of obligation, make to express yourself. Running around with a preachy message about feminism is the least condusive manner to conduct oneself. The franchise already has good female characters, there's no need to be loud and abrasive about it.

Teaching kids is never bad. Teaching them nonsense is how we get grown up men who have illogical objection to the idea of female fighters in a fighting cartoon and legitimately believe it is an 'unjust' to to think that men shouldn't always be the focus and center of attention in entertainment.

[GodVegetto91]

Okay fellas it's friday now in japan.. Where's the big announcement?
And the japanese text/summary of the manga??

What big announcement? I thought Chapter 7 was already leaked.

Oh the Chapter has leaked alright. But in Korean. Now we're waiting for Herms to translate the japanese text/summary on 2ch. But it somehow hasn't leaked yet.. This is extremely rare.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Making stuff to teach kids never turns out good. Don't make art out of obligation, make to express yourself. Running around with a preachy message about feminism is the least condusive manner to conduct oneself. The franchise already has good female characters, there's no need to be loud and abrasive about it.

Teaching kids is never bad. Teaching them nonsense is how we get grown up men who have illogical objection to the idea of female fighters in a fighting cartoon and legitimately believe it is an 'unjust' to to think that men shouldn't always be the focus and center of attention in entertainment.

Honestly, as far as I'm concerned - it's both. There's absolutely nothing wrong with there being more female characters, especially ones of note, and Dragon Ball is definitely lacking in that department. It's had Android 18 for a long while, and has still yet to really and truly make use of her. Sure, she's 'outclassed in power' now, but that hasn't stopped other weaker characters from getting a chance to shine. There's also her personality to take into consideration, but there's gotta be a way to write her into combat as well.

On the flip side though, it shouldn't be 'forced' in just to meet some kind of quota. That's not meaningful in any way, it's just trying to mark something off of some kind of representational check list, and doing something just for the sake of that very rarely leads to actually engaging writing. It's part of the problem I have with a lot of modern day "feminists" at least in regards to fictional matters - take for example the movement that broke out for a while to automatically bring female Thor into the MCU. Many were calling for it to happen simply for the sake of having another female character, with absolutely no care given as to how or when they would bring her in to replace the current version. They didn't care if it was shoehorned in and acted like that was how it always was, they just wanted it to happen as soon as possible. That's not the way you go about adding in representation, at all.

To sum it up in short (and to get back on topic a bit), I agree that it's high time that we got more female characters in the series that actually got to fight...but it's hardly any sort of crime against real life women when we don't.

[FortuneSSJ]

-Aout Champa's team-

For some reason, I'm wishing for a beautiful bond between the Robot and Mini Gohan.
Maybe because of Hiro/Baymax relationship that I loved (Big Hero 6) or the fact that I'm always rewatching Chrono Trigger ending. (Its not because of that Gohan/Robot filler though).

[batistabus]

A side-by-side for comparison. Both images were drawn by Toyotaro. I scaled their heights by matching their head sizes, so this may not accurately represent the difference.

[omaro34]

A side-by-side for comparison. Both images were drawn by Toyotaro. I scaled their heights by matching their head sizes, so this may not accurately represent the difference.

i'm wondering if the Freeza race guy also wiped out the Saiyan race from Universe 6.

[Gyt Kaliba]

It keeps striking me as odd that part of this new guy's natural body armor has what clearly looks like Saiyan armor shoulderpads. Then again, even Freeza without the armor still has those things on his arms and legs that kinda look like the same kind of armor...

...Hmm. Was the bit about the 'saiyan armor' not actually being anything of the sort, but actually something they got from Freeza, true? I can't remember where I've heard that before, if it was just in the dub, or if it was in the sub, or if it was neither of those. Anyway, if it really did come from him, maybe the armor was always sorta based upon some of the natural body armor that his race possesses in some forms?

[Basaku]

On the flip side though, it shouldn't be 'forced' in just to meet some kind of quota. That's not meaningful in any way, it's just trying to mark something off of some kind of representational check list, and doing something just for the sake of that very rarely leads to actually engaging writing. It's part of the problem I have with a lot of modern day "feminists" at least in regards to fictional matters - take for example the movement that broke out for a while to automatically bring female Thor into the MCU. Many were calling for it to happen simply for the sake of having another female character, with absolutely no care given as to how or when they would bring her in to replace the current version. They didn't care if it was shoehorned in and acted like that was how it always was, they just wanted it to happen as soon as possible. That's not the way you go about adding in representation, at all.

Inclusion of female characters doesn't have to meet any special standard or criteria. There doesn't have to be any super-meaningul way to bring them in or any extrordinary reason that will evolve into a massive arc that deals with the fact of bringing a female character. If something like this happens then great. Just as it would be great for any new male character being brought in. But otherwise - if "boys are allowed" even if there's no meaningul reason to include them related to their gender, the same goes for females. If a crappy female character joins a series then it's a crappy female character and she'll join dozens of crappy male characters that are already there unquestioned about their right to be there. If a great female character joins with good arc and motivation to join then great, she'll join great male characters that are already there.

And BTW speaking of Marvel, how many more movies that center around male heroes will Black Widow have to be "prove herself" in and providide 'evidence' to Marvel fanboys and Marvel execs that she "earned her right" to a solo movie before they graciously allow it? I'm starting to lose track how many she's been already in since Iron Man 2

[Zephyr]

Was the bit about the 'saiyan armor' not actually being anything of the sort, but actually something they got from Freeza, true? I can't remember where I've heard that before, if it was just in the dub, or if it was in the sub, or if it was neither of those. Anyway, if it really did come from him, maybe the armor was always sorta based upon some of the natural body armor that his race possesses in some forms?

I'm fairly certain that one of the guidebooks mentions the armor being something they got from Freeza.

I've been kicking around the theory for a while that said armor was derived from Freeza's species' biology. While it's greatly likely that it's just generic Toriyama design quirks, the "most definitely natural" armor that we see Freeza, Coola, and this new guy sporting seems to share a lot of features with the standard battle armor that they outfit their armies with.

Would help explain why Freeza regenerates in "F" with this body armor in tact.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Like I said, it's only when it's treated like some sort of real world crime that the 'let's get representation' stuff starts to irk me a little bit. I mean, I'm all for more representation, but there's a lot of messed up stuff happening in the real world that has nothing to do with fiction - just seems to me that we should try to fix more of what's wrong in real life and society first. But that's just me.

And BTW speaking of Marvel, how many more movies that center around male heroes will Black Widow have to be "prove herself" in and providide 'evidence' to Marvel fanboys and Marvel execs that she "earned her right" to a solo movie before they graciously allow it? I'm starting to lose track how many she's been already in since Iron Man 2

In full agreement with you here. In my books it's actually sorta criminal we're getting Captain Marvel before we do Black Widow at this point. She's fully deserving of her own solo film - well, her own 'titled' one anyway, since I'm sure we'd have the likes of Fury or Hawkeye and what have you appearing too - and it's a crying shame she hasn't gotten one yet. At least they don't seem to be letting her fade away into the background yet thankfully though, so there's always still hope.

I'm fairly certain that one of the guidebooks mentions the armor being something they got from Freeza.

I've been kicking around the theory for a while that said armor was derived from Freeza's species' biology. While it's greatly likely that it's just generic Toriyama design quirks, the "most definitely natural" armor that we see Freeza, Coola, and this new guy sporting seems to share a lot of features with the standard battle armor that they outfit their armies with.

Would help explain why Freeza regenerates in "F" with this body armor in tact.

It being in a guidebook would explain why I kinda remember it but not really. I'm better at remembering stuff that was said in series than I am extra stuff sadly.

I'm sure at it's heart it's just a Toriyama design quirk in action, yeah, but this idea is one I could get behind. It makes enough sense to me, and there's not really anything to work against it, so...guess it's head-canon for me at least, until something is said either for or against it.

Man that wait for the next chapter or those episodes is going to be painful. Is this what weekly Jump readers back in the day had to deal with? The pain! The agony! The first world problems!

[JulieYBM]

Making stuff to teach kids never turns out good. Don't make art out of obligation, make to express yourself. Running around with a preachy message about feminism is the least condusive manner to conduct oneself. The franchise already has good female characters, there's no need to be loud and abrasive about it.

Teaching kids is never bad. Teaching them nonsense is how we get grown up men who have illogical objection to the idea of female fighters in a fighting cartoon and legitimately believe it is an 'unjust' to to think that men shouldn't always be the focus and center of attention in entertainment.

Teaching kids through art is not good. If you want to actually pass on knowledge and wisdom do it through dialogue, none of this message-in-a-work nonsense. Art is an expression of its creator's character, not a platform to guilt creators into false social responsibility.

[Basaku]

Teaching kids through art is not good.

Said no one ever.

If you want to actually pass on knowledge and wisdom do it through dialogue, none of this message-in-a-work nonsense. Art is an expression of its creator's character, not a platform to guilt creators into false social responsibility.

Because Toriyama's feeling more guilty by the minute as he's reading Kanzenshuu forums? If an artist puts their work out there and even wants to get money for it, then obviously people will judge it one way or another. And for every 'social justice guilt trip' there's gonna be a counter opinion anyway. In the end Toriyama will ultimately decide himself what to do, he's a strong independent man and doesn't need your protection from being 'guilted'.