Does Movie 12 prove how depressing Goku beating Fat Buu is?

[precita]

Movie 12 seems to take place in an alternate universe where SSJ3 Goku kills Fat Buu. And yet if Super Saiyan 3 Goku did stop Fat Buu...it kind of proves a depressing ending for most.

- Goku returns to the afterlife after his day is up and stays dead. His friends and family never see him again.

- Vegeta also stays dead after sacrificing himself to Buu, and he loses his body. At the end of Movie 12 we see Vegeta fade away as his body is taken away from him in hell.

- Old Kai remains trapped in the Z sword forever.

- Gohan doesn't get his Mystic power-up.


Man, it just goes to prove how if SSJ3 Goku really did kill Fat Buu it would have changed the events of the entire series and Goku and Vegeta would both stay dead. About the only thing that stuck was Goten/Trunks learned how to become Gotenks but that's it.

[Hellspawn28]

Well you could say in the Fusion Reborn timeline that they would be screw against Golden Freeza. If Freeza finds out that Goku beats Buu then he would train really hard for 4 months and the whole Earth would be doomed. It would be just Gohan, Gotenks, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin and Roshi fighting Freeza.

[Speedster]

I think the one who killed Buu in that timeline was Gotenks instead of Goku. Had Goku killed Buu the boys probably wouldn't have learned to fuse (and do it so effortlessly as in the movie) as there wouldn't be any immediate need. Besides the movie was released when the Super Gotenks Vs Super Buu episodes were airing (episodes 258, 259). It is hard to guess which Gotenks beat which Buu - if I wanted to go with more story consistency I would say SSJ3 Gotenks killed Super Buu before the fusion run out of time (yet again this is episode 262 but it was already written by the time I suppose). Another possibility is Super Gotenks killing fat Buu.

[Vijay]

I felt Gohan was Mystic.

His defined bang & serious facial features (as he punched Frieza) seem to indicate he was

Now this topic might be slap across da face to certain section of fanboys crying "why didnt Goku kill Fat Buu. It iz kuawzey".

Just lookin at chain of events (like Goku & Veggie dead forever) annoying Gotenks & regressed Gohan (character-wise) are the only guys on Earth. Dafuq?

As much as I support "Nex-Gen" concept the series has attempted, its simply waay too fast for kids & teenage boy to hold the mantle as Saviors yet

That too with phenomenal fan-favourites, Goku & Veggie's rivalry/dynamics/chemistry just hitting its peak in Buu Arc (arguably greatest rematch in biblical scale), I understand Toriyama's choices & decisions NOW!

[fadeddreams5]

Part of me feels Gohan was ultimate in that movie. Fusion Reborn was originally released in March 1995. The episodes where Gohan becomes ultimate and fights Super Buu didn't come out until May of that year. That said, the chapters must have been released before Fusion Reborn. It's possible they planned to give Gohan that form, but had not really thought about changing his facial design in his base at that point. *shrug*

Within the context of the story, it makes sense for that to be Ultimate Gohan.

[precita]

I think even Gohan before his Mystic power up could still kill Freeza in one punch.

[ekrolo2]

I think even Gohan before his Mystic power up could still kill Freeza in one punch.

Since Freeza wasn't bulked up, yeah he probably could one shot him.

[Hellspawn28]

Part of me feels Gohan was ultimate in that movie. Fusion Reborn was originally released in March 1995. The episodes where Gohan becomes ultimate and fights Super Buu didn't come out until May of that year. That said, the chapters must have been released before Fusion Reborn. It's possible they planned to give Gohan that form, but had not really thought about changing his facial design in his base at that point. *shrug*

Within the context of the story, it makes sense for that to be Ultimate Gohan.

Gohan becomes Mystic Gohan around late 1994 in the manga and Fusion Reborn came out March 1995. The movie was probably in the works around the same time when Gohan was returning back to Earth in DBZ. Fans for years debated if Gohan was Mystic or not in Fusion Reborn.

[ekrolo2]

Its not unreasonable to assume he could be Ultimate. Toriyama told the staff about SSJ before it was in the manga which is why its prototype appeared in movie 4 and Gogeta being used for movie 12 is the reason why Toriyama excluded him from the manga and invented Vegetto in his stead.

[precita]

Gogeta was invented before Vegito? Weird, I never knew that. Always assumed TOEI copied Toriyama and made another Goku/Vegeta fusion after he did.

[ekrolo2]

Gogeta was invented before Vegito? Weird, I never knew that. Always assumed TOEI copied Toriyama and made another Goku/Vegeta fusion after he did.

Yup, Gogeta was supposed to happen in the manga but the anime staff wanted to make him the big deal of movie 12 so Toriyama didn't want to step on their toes and just invented Vegetto instead.

[precita]

So Goku/Vegeta were supposed to do the fusion dance in the Buu arc? And how did he know they were going with the name Gogeta instead of Vegito?

[Muffin Man]

^Probably because Gogeta is the obvious portmanteau of Goku and Vegeta, whereas Vegito is as unintuitive as hell.

[apex_pretador]

Part of me feels Gohan was ultimate in that movie. Fusion Reborn was originally released in March 1995. The episodes where Gohan becomes ultimate and fights Super Buu didn't come out until May of that year. That said, the chapters must have been released before Fusion Reborn. It's possible they planned to give Gohan that form, but had not really thought about changing his facial design in his base at that point. *shrug*

Within the context of the story, it makes sense for that to be Ultimate Gohan.

I felt Gohan was Mystic.

It can't be. Fat janemba was the greatest ki goku ever felt.

[ekrolo2]

^Probably because Gogeta is the obvious portmanteau of Goku and Vegeta, whereas Vegito is as unintuitive as hell.

Vegetto is supposed to be a combination of Goku's Saiyan name (Kakarotto) and Vegeta but the name itself is odd since one of his fusees never calls himself Kakarotto.