Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[The Monkey King]

Lol this can't be real :

Spoiler:

[djcoopdawg]

Lol this can't be real :

Spoiler:

LOL stop man that ain't funny. At least we can all have a sense of humor about it.

[Neon Z]

Lol this can't be real :

That can't be real because it's not real. In fact, considering the episode titles and the flow of the last episode, I'm starting to think they'll skip the ring scene entirely. Goku was getting pretty beaten up and even breathing heavily here - due to those blows. It doesn't seem like he'd just relax because Freeza starts getting tired too.

Then there's the episode titles. Next week's episode is (partially) called "Son Goku begins his counter attack!" and one week later it's "The Decisive Kamehameha!". It doesn't seem like there's any space for the whole ring drama unless it's a really short scene...

[Hugo Boss]

The meaning of Sorbet's words is about Tagoma surpassing Ginyu Force while Shisami doesn't. You may argue if your powerscale is according to it or not, but it's pretty much what is said. I remember Zarbon because he is the first to come in mind that is weaker than Ginyu Force, but you can stretch it to mean Shisami is almost as strong as Ginyu Force. By the way, Shisami's grip doesn't seem to faze Gohan at all, so Gohan should be a lot stronger than Shisami.

None of your speculations really make any sense to me.

You do realize that Tagoma surpassing the Ginyu Force doesn't automatically mean that his power level is just barely over 120,000 right? Him being in the billions (which is likely) wouldn't make the statement any less valid. I'm assuming the Ginyu Force's power level was the highest documented power, and therefore, was used as a benchmark.

Also, what does Shisami have to do with any of this? Are you saying that since Tagoma was the only one who was recognized as surpassing the Ginyu Force by some unknown amount, Shisami is automatically below that?

Again, do you really think anyone in the Namek arc (barring Freeza) could deflect Gohan's blasts at this point?

I never said Tagoma is just a bit stronger than Ginyu Force, he can be at whatever dimension you want. Just like you said, it's a benchmark. Actually, this is the only tangible thing you can use to make up your powerlevels in regards to Tagoma and Shisami in Dragon Ball Super. If they can fight Gohan is another subject, but Shisami can't be stronger than Ginyu Force.

[Khin]

Re: Sorbet stating that Tagoma surpassing Ginyu Force

People tend to forget that after Sorbet checks Tagoma's power level.He then makes his Ki shot up making Trunks and Goten being able to sense it.So we can say that when Sorbet checks out Tagoma's BP,he was only on his surpress state at that time.

[buutenks]

Lol this can't be real :

That can't be real because it's not real. In fact, considering the episode titles and the flow of the last episode, I'm starting to think they'll skip the ring scene entirely. Goku was getting pretty beaten up and even breathing heavily here - due to those blows. It doesn't seem like he'd just relax because Freeza starts getting tired too.

Then there's the episode titles. Next week's episode is (partially) called "Son Goku begins his counter attack!" and one week later it's "The Decisive Kamehameha!". It doesn't seem like there's any space for the whole ring drama unless it's a really short scene...

MMm,but if they skip the scene how will they make the vegeta switch?Obviously the ring thing served only one purpose.To have vegeta fight freeza without making goku just go eh ok sure u continue.

Still they could fit in.Ep 27 goku fires off the kameha which knocks freeza down,freeza panics signals sorbet to fire the ring,goku gets hit,then vegeta steps in goes ssj god and leaving freeza in shock ending the episode.Then ep 28 vegeta gives freeza an ass kicking for like 8 minutes about to finish freeza at mid episode or a bit past mid,freeza blows up earth,whis turns back time and goku kills freeza with the kameha and then ending the episode.

Though IMO it would be lame if they copy the film without making any changes.So i hope they make some changes.

[Khin]

Even though i hate that ring scene,i had doubts it will be retconed.

[Hugo Boss]

People tend to forget that after Sorbet checks Tagoma's power level. He then makes his Ki shot up making Trunks and Goten being able to sense it. So we can say that when Sorbet checks out Tagoma's BP, he was only on his surpress state at that time.

This is the same argument people use to disregard Beerus' line about Goku being weaker than Freeza. It's even less applicable in this case, because Tagoma can't control his battlepower, only Ginyu is able to do that. By the way, Goten and Trunks didn't get caught by Freeza's presence, because he wasn't flaring an aura. Unless you think Freeza shot up his ki when attacking Gohan without anyone noticing.

[Khin]

People tend to forget that after Sorbet checks Tagoma's power level. He then makes his Ki shot up making Trunks and Goten being able to sense it. So we can say that when Sorbet checks out Tagoma's BP, he was only on his surpress state at that time.

This is the same argument people use to disregard Beerus' line about Goku being weaker than Freeza.

People who believe Beerus' statement have the Ginyu almost guessing Goku's BP for that.

Tagoma can't control his battlepower, only Ginyu is able to do that

Who said he cant ? After all those training with Freeza.Do you think he didnt will learn it ?

Goten and Trunks didn't get caught by Freeza's presence, because he wasn't flaring an aura. Unless you think Freeza shot up his ki when attacking Gohan without anyone noticing.

Goten and Trunks not sensing Freeza's Ki is just another inconsistency,you can clear see Ten,Roshi and the others sensing Freeza's presense when he was about to land on Earth.

[Hugo Boss]

The story doesn't provide any reason to assume Beerus' line is incorrect. Goku transforms into Super Saiyan and Beerus again compares him to Freeza, saying that way Freeza was the best Goku could defeat in that form. This is all there is to it.

If you think Tagoma has learned how to control his battlepower you have to demonstrate with some line on the subject. Ginyu being more powerful in Tagoma's body than the proper owner is evidence enough that Tagoma doesn't know the limits of his power.

And, you must have forgotten Bulma advised Gohan and the others that Freeza was aproaching and they were looking for him. Goten and Trunks didn't know anything about Freeza.

[Neon Z]

Lol this can't be real :

That can't be real because it's not real. In fact, considering the episode titles and the flow of the last episode, I'm starting to think they'll skip the ring scene entirely. Goku was getting pretty beaten up and even breathing heavily here - due to those blows. It doesn't seem like he'd just relax because Freeza starts getting tired too.

Then there's the episode titles. Next week's episode is (partially) called "Son Goku begins his counter attack!" and one week later it's "The Decisive Kamehameha!". It doesn't seem like there's any space for the whole ring drama unless it's a really short scene...

MMm,but if they skip the scene how will they make the vegeta switch?Obviously the ring thing served only one purpose.To have vegeta fight freeza without making goku just go eh ok sure u continue.

Still they could fit in.Ep 27 goku fires off the kameha which knocks freeza down,freeza panics signals sorbet to fire the ring,goku gets hit,then vegeta steps in goes ssj god and leaving freeza in shock ending the episode.Then ep 28 vegeta gives freeza an ass kicking for like 8 minutes about to finish freeza at mid episode or a bit past mid,freeza blows up earth,whis turns back time and goku kills freeza with the kameha and then ending the episode.

27 is the end of the arc. 28 is already part of the Champa stuff. If the ring happens, it needs to be next week, episode 26, in spite of the title talking about Goku counter-attacking.

[Pannaliciour]

Best scenario is:
1)Freeza's power is to much, it begins to drop. 2)Goku starts to win and have Freeza on his knees.
3)Freeza destroys earth.
4)Whis rewind time.
5)Vegeta fight Freeza but doesn't pay attention.
6) Goku IT kamehameha on Freeza before he again destroys earth.

[apex_pretador]

Shisami - 40,000
Tagoma - 100,000
Ginyu - 120,000
Piccolo - 80,000
Gohan - 80,000, SS 400,000 , FP - 500,000 (ultimate/mystic)
Freeza - 530,000
Final form freeza - 4 Million
Golden freeza - 120,000,000
Base god goku - 5 Million
SSB goku - 100,000,000 (20x)
Krillin / ten - 15,000
Roshi - 2000



Scale : Freeza FP = 120 million

[Hugo Boss]

I think Piccolo and Gohan are too far from Shisami and close to Tagoma on your list. Can't you consider something around 60,000?

Any reason for not following the official Super Saiyan multiplier?

[Chillekasper]

Shisami - 40,000
Tagoma - 100,000
Ginyu - 120,000
Piccolo - 80,000
Gohan - 80,000, SS 400,000 , FP - 500,000 (ultimate/mystic)
Freeza - 530,000
Final form freeza - 4 Million
Golden freeza - 120,000,000
Base god goku - 5 Million
SSB goku - 100,000,000 (20x)
Krillin / ten - 15,000
Roshi - 2000


Scale : Freeza FP = 120 million

And Gotenks? 100.000?

[ZombieVito]

Well since people are posting BP's I guess I could too:

Spoiler:

Vados: 16,000,000,000,000
Whis: 15,000,000,000,000
Beerus: 10,000,000,000,000
Champa: 9,000,000,000,000

Freeza: 530,000
-- After training: 150,000,000,000
-- Final form: 700,000,000,000
-- Golden form: 8,000,000,000,000

Goku/Vegeta: 750,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 7,500,000,000,000

Gohan: 4,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 120,000,000,000
-- Signal beam: 200,000,000,000

Ginyu: 75,000,000,000
Gotenks [Super Saiyan]: 12,500,000,000
Tagoma: 5,000,000,000
Piccolo: 3,000,000,000
Trunks/Goten: 60,000,000
Kuririn: 540,000
Tenshinhan: 450,000
Shisami: 23,000
Freeza's soldiers: 100 - 1,000
Jaco: 500
Roshi [Buffed]: 180
Sorbet: 100

[Low Tone G]

Well since people are posting BP's I guess I could too:

Spoiler:

Vados: 16,000,000,000,000
Whis: 15,000,000,000,000
Beerus: 10,000,000,000,000
Champa: 9,000,000,000,000

Freeza: 530,000
-- After training: 150,000,000,000
-- Final form: 700,000,000,000
-- Golden form: 8,000,000,000,000

Goku/Vegeta: 750,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 7,500,000,000,000

Gohan: 4,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 120,000,000,000
-- Signal beam: 200,000,000,000

Ginyu: 75,000,000,000
Gotenks [Super Saiyan]: 12,500,000,000
Tagoma: 5,000,000,000
Piccolo: 3,000,000,000
Trunks/Goten: 60,000,000
Kuririn: 540,000
Tenshinhan: 450,000
Shisami: 23,000
Freeza's soldiers: 100 - 1,000
Jaco: 500
Roshi [Buffed]: 180
Sorbet: 100

Mine is here:
GP - God power for characters like 4th form Freeza and above

Spoiler:

Vados: 15.5(She herself says that he is a little bit stronger than her younger bother)
Whis: 15
Beerus: 10
Champa: 9.5
Golden Freeza: 8
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 7.5
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: 7.5
Saiyan Beyond God Goku/Vegeta: 5.8
Saiyan Beyond Goku supressed against Freeza: 2.5
4th form Freeza: 2

[ZombieVito]

I don't think Goku was suppressing himself against Freeza in Super.

[Low Tone G]

I don't think Goku was suppressing himself against Freeza in Super.

I do... because Freeza was confident about his Golden Evolution, so it must be a huge boost over his 4th form which is very strong on its own. But Goku's base power is a state which allows him to punch back Beerus' Sphere of Destruction. So it's insignificantly weaker than his SSJ-God form. While I believe that Goku's SSGSS form is signifcant boost I still can not see that being more than a 1.5 multiplier over Saiyan Beyond God. Unless you think that Goku is keeping himself artificially on a low power level while being in his Base form. He was suppressing himself just to test Freeza. And that Freeza is still curious of his ultimate)SSGSS) form, from what Goku assumes that Freeza also has one. And he is right.

[ssbgoku]

Hello guys I am new here and I would like to add my opinion about 6-10-15 scale used by akira to explain gap between whis, bills and ssjg goku. Some guys complained that in rof this power scale couldnt work.
First we must know that smallest gap to dominate other requires just 1.25 gap based on cui vs vegeta fight. Keeping this in mind lets multiply 6 by 1.25 and we get 7.5. Yes this power would be enough to dominate other guy. This is 25% difference.

Now the smallest gap known was 12.5 % which was vegeta and kaioken x2 goku Saiyan saga and dodoria vs vegeta. So even with 8.5 goku or vegeta would loose to beerus if one vs one.