Question about "A Grand Problem"

[clutchins]

I originally posted this in another thread, but I figured it deserved its own thread.

Original post:
I'm looking at DBGT dub airdates and the whole "A Grand Problem" thing and at first glance it looks like somebody, somewhere fucked up. Disclaimer: I've never seen it. "A Grand Problem" supposedly aired 11/7/2003, which is corroborated by IMDB. Now, apparently the recap includes clips from Episode 16, "Giru's Checkered Past," which supposedly aired 11/14/2003 - the week after "A Grand Problem." It gets weirder when you look at the original DVD releases. The very first volume of DBGT, which as we all know started with the Baby Saga, includes episodes 17-19 and "A Grand Problem," while the final volume of the "Lost Episodes" includes episodes 13-16. So it is apparent that as they released the episodes out of order, Funimation also forgot to release the first true episode of GT that aired on Toonami after their homemade recap episode.

TL;DR - To anybody who has seen the recap episode, does "A Grand Problem" actually include clips from Episode 16? Is there anything wrong with these airdates?

[TheBlackPaladin]

The reason for the weird dates is because that episode is a dub-only episode, created for the sole purpose of skipping the first arc and letting audience members know the relevant plot points via flashbacks and clips.

The first arc--and really, GT as a whole--was not very well-received in Japan, and FUNimation wanted to keep the Dragon Ball gravy train moving, so they decided to skip the first arc and debut the series for American audiences at a more action-oriented part of the story. Adding to the confusion is that they later went back and dubbed the episodes they skipped (labeling them "Lost Episodes," when in reality the more appropriate term would be "Skipped Episodes"). None of the latest DVD releases include "A Grand Problem," either, and instead have all the episodes in the proper order.

So, the release order of FUNimation's dub of GT--on both DVD and TV--is complicated and out of order. This is likely the cause of the confusing dates on IMDB.

[clutchins]

I understand the reason for it existing in the first place. What I'm asking is why the thing included clips from an episode that would ultimately air the week after the recap's airdate.

It's like a spoiler thing.

[thaman91]

I suspect that Giru's Checkered Past didn't actually air on November 14. In this thread on toonzone from April 16, 2005 everybody is anticipating that the final "lost" episode (Giru's Checkered Past) will air that night, but then it doesn't. So that doesn't really clarify when it actually aired, but it does seem to indicate that it hadn't aired prior to then. Thus, the November 14, 2003 listing for that episode must be wrong. And so "A Grand Problem" probably included clips from that episode because the next episode jumped straight to 17 (Pan's Gambit).

To add further confusion, IMDB has Giru's Checkered Past as having aired on November 7, 2003. But maybe that's because both "A Grand Problem" and "Giru's Checkered Past" were referred to as episode 16 at one point. And so IMDB may have gotten mixed up. I don't know lol. I wonder when that episode actually aired though.

[clutchins]

Yeah I suspect that the airdate is wrong as well. I was compiling the airdates for my episode guides and it occurred to me that something was off.

[TripleRach]

I suspect that Giru's Checkered Past didn't actually air on November 14. In this thread on toonzone from April 16, 2005 everybody is anticipating that the final "lost" episode (Giru's Checkered Past) will air that night, but then it doesn't. So that doesn't really clarify when it actually aired, but it does seem to indicate that it hadn't aired prior to then. Thus, the November 14, 2003 listing for that episode must be wrong. And so "A Grand Problem" probably included clips from that episode because the next episode jumped straight to 17 (Pan's Gambit).

To add further confusion, IMDB has Giru's Checkered Past as having aired on November 7, 2003. But maybe that's because both "A Grand Problem" and "Giru's Checkered Past" were referred to as episode 16 at one point. And so IMDB may have gotten mixed up. I don't know lol. I wonder when that episode actually aired though.

To my knowledge, the real episode 16 never aired during Cartoon Network's original run. "A Grand Problem" always played in its place. I know it happened the first time, and I'm fairly sure it happened at least one other time, anyway. I always assumed there was some production code mix up at Cartoon Network.

I used to keep track of dub airdates myself, mostly writing them down as they aired. I managed to dig up my old spreadsheet for it, and here's what I have for GT.

Code: Select all

Devastating Wish	2/5/2005
Pan Blasts Off	2/12/2005
Terror on Imecka	2/19/2005
The Most Wanted List	2/26/2005
Goku vs. Ledgic	3/5/2005
Like Pulling Teeth	3/12/2005
Trunks, the Bride	3/19/2005
Whisker Power	3/19/2005
Lord Luud	3/26/2005
Dance and Attack	3/26/2005
Lord Luud's Curse	4/2/2005
The Last Oracle of Luud	4/2/2005
The Man Behind the Curtain	4/9/2005
The Battle Within	4/9/2005
Beginning of the End	4/16/2005
	
Pan's Gambit	11/14/2003
Unexpected Power	11/21/2003
A General Uprising	11/28/2003
The Source of Rilldo's Power	12/5/2003
A Secret Revealed	12/12/2003
The Baby Secret	12/19/2003
Hidden Danger	12/26/2003
Discovering the Truth	1/2/2003
Baby's Arrival	1/9/2003
Saiyan Hunting	1/16/2003
The Attack on Vegeta	1/23/2003
A Worldwide Problem	1/30/2004
The Fall of the Saiyans	2/6/2004
The Game After Life	2/13/2004
Collapse From Within	5/1/2004
The Return of Uub	5/8/2004
The Tail's Tale	5/15/2004
Back in the Game	5/22/2004
Goku's Ascension	5/29/2004
The Tuffle Gorilla Attacks	6/5/2004
Old Kai's Last Stand	6/12/2004
Family Bonds	6/19/2004
Baby Put to Rest	6/26/2004
Piccolo's Decision	7/3/2004
Curtain Call	7/10/2004
A Dangerous Union	7/17/2004
The Resurrection of Cell and Frieza	7/24/2004
17 Times 2	7/31/2004
Piccolo's Best Bet	8/7/2004
Raising the Stakes	8/14/2004
The Greatest Surprise	8/21/2004
The Shadow Dragons	8/28/2004
The Two-Star Dragon	9/4/2004
The Five-Star Dragon	9/11/2004
The Six-Star Dragon	10/23/2004
The Seven-Star Dragon	10/30/2004
Saying Goodbye	11/6/2004
The Four-Star Dragon	11/13/2004
The Heart of the Prince	11/20/2004
The Three Star Dragon	11/27/2004
The One-Star Dragon	12/4/2004
Shadow Dragons Unite	12/11/2004
Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta	12/18/2004
Super Saiyan 4 Fusion	1/1/2005
The Limits of Power	1/8/2005
Rescue Goku	1/15/2005
Universal Allies	1/22/2005
Until We Meet Again	1/29/2005
A Grand Problem	11/7/2003

Not a very pretty way of sharing, but the version of Excel I used for it dates back to the mid 90s. Google Spreadsheets couldn't even read it.

[clutchins]

That just solved everything! Wikipedia had Episode 59 airing on Christmas Day 2004, which is ludicrous when you think about it, so my spreadsheet was off by one date for the most part.

Somebody should go into Wikipedia and bump all the dates up by one week for 17-59. Also, it says the real Episode 16 aired during the Nicktoons run in 2012, but it doesn't list an alternate date like it usually should.

[precita]

I suspect that Giru's Checkered Past didn't actually air on November 14. In this thread on toonzone from April 16, 2005 everybody is anticipating that the final "lost" episode (Giru's Checkered Past) will air that night, but then it doesn't. So that doesn't really clarify when it actually aired, but it does seem to indicate that it hadn't aired prior to then. Thus, the November 14, 2003 listing for that episode must be wrong. And so "A Grand Problem" probably included clips from that episode because the next episode jumped straight to 17 (Pan's Gambit).

To add further confusion, IMDB has Giru's Checkered Past as having aired on November 7, 2003. But maybe that's because both "A Grand Problem" and "Giru's Checkered Past" were referred to as episode 16 at one point. And so IMDB may have gotten mixed up. I don't know lol. I wonder when that episode actually aired though.

You're right, the episode never aired on CN. Man, I actually posted in that Toonzone thread from 2005 too. I remember the ep never aired.

Goddamn I am getting old. You know that feeling when you find a post of yours from literally an entire decade ago still on the internet.