Things that bother you about Toriyama's art style

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The first page is certainly more detailed than the second, but I don't think it's a very fair comparison. The first page is just Shenlong and the Pilaf trio. The second page is Shenlong, the Capsule Corp building, the characters in front of said building, various trees, and the surrounding cityscape. Toriyama could focus on detailing Shenlong in the first page because he was taking up almost the whole image, but in the second one Toriyama had to split his effort/time between Shenlong and all the surrounding things. I think the lower level of detail is fair and to be expected considering that.

Toriyama's assistant is the one who handles backgrounds elements like that (so long as they've appeared before). He very likely only had devote real focus to Shenlong and the figures vaguely resembling the rest of the cast.

[ParkerAL]

I dislike the massive bulging pecs he adopted later on. Actually, I largely prefer his earlier method for drawing muscles overall. Looked more believable.

[Basaku]

I dislike the massive bulging pecs he adopted later on. Actually, I largely prefer his earlier method for drawing muscles overall. Looked more believable.

His earlier style makes the characters look like they have much higher fat mass in their bodies though, a 7% fat-mass look of pure muscules later on is actually more suiting for fighters IMO

[NitroEX]

When he used to draw the characters with a "three-pack":



I never could understand the thought process behind it. Did he find it more visibly appealing or was it just a simple lack of anatomical knowledge?

Wow... I've haven't read much of the manga (only a couple of "Z" volumes, for lack of better term), and the anime artists clearly corrected that. Even the lower tier ones like Uchiyama and Ebisawa didn't draw "3 packs".

The Dragonball anime is guilty of this too. Before ever seeing the manga I vividly remember Tien having weirdly shaped abs during many of his appearances. I think it varied depending on who was animating him.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Yeah the anime did it too.



Sometimes they even made it worse, with four columns of abs.

[Captain-Sora]

The first page is certainly more detailed than the second, but I don't think it's a very fair comparison. The first page is just Shenlong and the Pilaf trio. The second page is Shenlong, the Capsule Corp building, the characters in front of said building, various trees, and the surrounding cityscape. Toriyama could focus on detailing Shenlong in the first page because he was taking up almost the whole image, but in the second one Toriyama had to split his effort/time between Shenlong and all the surrounding things. I think the lower level of detail is fair and to be expected considering that.

Toriyama's assistant is the one who handles backgrounds elements like that (so long as they've appeared before). He very likely only had devote real focus to Shenlong and the figures vaguely resembling the rest of the cast.

It's probably less to do with the level of focus and attention to detail and more to do with the fact that the dragon's further away in the later panel. Usually, you don't want to go too far with all the detailing when a character/object/building/etc. is further back. It's supposed to be a suggestion of atmospheric perspective, as things naturally look less detailed when looking at them from a long distance. It'd look less pleasing to the eyes if he went all out with that particular panel.

[Michsi]

This has more to do with his current art style, but I'm not a fan of the way he draws their faces now, especially the eyes. They're smaller and too far apart.
And I don't really like the large head/ small body design either.

[Son_Gohan]

Sometimes they even made it worse, with four columns of abs.

That's actually Toriyama's doing as well:



For someone that was inspired by Bruce Lee movies, you'd think he'd be very familiar with how they're meant to look.

[Metalwario64]

Geez, and I'm pretty sure both of those Tenshinhans are from Maeda's team as well. I could have sworn I'd seen some regular six packs in Dragon Ball. Though in Toriyama's defense, I think those "eight packs" are just poor attempts at defining the rib cage.

[EDIT] Yeah, here's a shot from the 23rd Tournament.


I don't know if it was a regular thing then, but at least some animators were doing it right by that time. Did Toriyama improve his anatomy during the Saiyan arc then?

[CosmicSaiyan]

Yeah the anime did it too.



Sometimes they even made it worse, with four columns of abs.

Same shit still happens, except most people these days can do their research on computer on how to draw muscles on human body and completely ignore the aspect by drawing from life before attempting to create their own Manga. But I'm sure artists like Toriyama were probably more influenced by people like Tezuka rather than hitting up their nearest library and getting their references from books of actual artistst like Frazetta or Burne Hogarth.

Spoiler:

Sad truth there are way more anime fans these days which is why many animes feel soo dumbed down with how characters behave and interact with each other. Even the whole weight and movement feels flat and generic.

[Black_Liger]

Some characters still look great like Piccolo and Tenshinhan, others look considerably slimmer but still good like Goku and Vegeta. Some others look hot as heck like Bulma and Jaco (lol). But some others have gone extremely lame in their appeareance like Gohan, geez even Gotenks retains muscle mass.

Toriyama's new style can be a double edge sword, Beerus and Whis and Frieza all look great because they were never buff to begin with, but for some others the results are not that good.

That said, his character design has been lacking and not doing it for me. I mean... just look at his character designs for DQ Heroes!. Most are slim, but they look great. And not everyone is slim King Doric is one bulk of a collossus.
Psaro (DQ Sephiroth)

Spoiler:

Luceus

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan Luceus

Spoiler:

Entire cast of characters

Spoiler:

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Didn't Julian say a while back that Nakatsuru took over doing the Dragon Quest designs more than a few years ago?

[Black_Liger]

Didn't Julian say a while back that Nakatsuru took over doing the Dragon Quest designs more than a few years ago?

I was playing and in the credits does Say Akira Toriyama, unless I haven't been paying too much attention.

[FoolsGil]

He got lazier around the end. The backgrounds were so far better detailed in Dragonball, and let's be honest, the reason why all the animals dissappeared by the Buu Saga is because he got tired of drawing non human background faces

[Cipher]

I absolutely love Toriyama's modern (at least a la Jaco) style. While it does blend awkwardly with some of the Dragon Ball characters (or perhaps only because we're accustomed to seeing them in previous styles), it's stylish and adorable and full of character. While Jaco remained visually simplistic a lot of the time, it felt like a conscious decision rather than out of laziness (and we should be clear what a relative term that is when talking about drawing an action comic).

If I had to pick an era of his art that doesn't thrill me, it's absolutely late Cell arc through the end of Dragon Ball. I know I'm echoing several others' sentiments on that. While multiple anime studies managed to render some amazing looking episodes based off that art, it was often done so by embellishing it. (Fine by me; Studio Cockpit's episodes are fairly removed from the manga art, but look incredible.) But yeah--it doesn't seem Toriyama tries to contest this; it's clearly no longer the work of an artist trying to wow you or enjoying themselves on a weekly basis, as Slump often was, as the first sixty percent or so of Dragon Ball is, and as some of his later mini-series are. It becomes (relatively!) functional.

[batistabus]

When he used to draw the characters with a "three-pack":
I never could understand the thought process behind it. Did he find it more visibly appealing or was it just a simple lack of anatomical knowledge?

Wow... I've haven't read much of the manga (only a couple of "Z" volumes, for lack of better term), and the anime artists clearly corrected that. Even the lower tier ones like Uchiyama and Ebisawa didn't draw "3 packs".

I almost just made a thread about this. It's always bothered me so much...not in that it's wrong, but why did he choose to draw it like this? Surely he knew what abs actually look like. Are we just perceiving the image wrong? Did he originally want to make abs look like that in the Dragon Ball world? What made him change the style?

Honestly, if I could ask Toriyama one question, it might have to be about this.