LightBing wrote:I don't know about the guidebooks. Goten and Trunks couldn't be SSJ, they weren't in the script.
Gohan didn't revert, he's the same as in the Boo arc. It's a character flaw, it isn't something new. Sure, it's pretty dumb but most characters have unfavorable traits.
There's no joke. It's a biased opinion, people don't put Goku on the same level as Gohan for example. When Goku got destroyed by Beerus, twice. Isn't that the same as Gohan defeat at the hands of Freeza? Or when he dropped his guard to be shot by Sorbet, even thought he's been fighting his whole life. More than enough time to learn.
Vegeta still has only losses, against Beerus and Freeza.
The Yamcha comparison, that's part of the problem. In BoG, Gohan got dispatched like everybody else. In FnF, he got the worst of it from Freeza because he was the strongest there. In Super, Freeza tortures him because he reminds him of Goku. When a character faces a stronger opponent, he gets beat down. Is there any moment were he's humiliated like Yamcha against Kami? Any moment when he got cocky and died because of it? The only parallel is defeat at the hands of stronger foes, which is shared by everybody.
If people just discussed how dumb Gohan is for not training, instead of counting how many punches he gets and making images highlighting the worst, etc..., I would appreciate the opinions.
It's a sea of exaggeration, the only negative is his lack of training, which logically made him weaker. He's still the strongest after Goku and Vegeta, he takes the lead against Freeza. In Super they even gave him that moment, were he calls out Goku and Vegeta until he breaks.
They easily coulda been added no problem. They have more relevance then Tenshinhan and Roshi do. One of the things Super does right is have Freeza recognize those two in Super. They also have more to bring to the table for both drama and comedy as Gotenks, than Roshi and Tenshinhan have to offer. Gohan's SSJ regression is the same reason Gotenks doesn't even get to go SSJ3. They have to remove everything special these people have. Toyotaro let's them keep it, but toei and everyone else just can't allow that. Remove his potential state and ignore half of the Boo saga cause it might make Goku look bad. Remove SSJ3 from Gotenks cause that might make Gotenks look closer to Goku or Vegeta. That'd just be silly.
No he's worse. He goes on to learn absolutely nothing from his past experiences, and continues to make the same mistake over and over again. When Goku of all people has more common sense than Gohan, and he mentions in episode 1 he knows more trouble will come eventually, that's pretty sad. This is the guy who'd sacrifice world safety for a good fight. Goku and Vegeta get back up and improve each and every time they are put down. They learn and grow whether they rebound against a single foe or not. Also yes that Sorbet thing is dumb when Goku constantly goes on about not dropping your guard several times in the manga. Now he decides to ignore his own advice cause we gotta make up a weakness. It's not about the defeat, it's about learning from mistakes and becoming better after it. Gohan doesn't get better, he waits to be knocked down again so they call pull the same shtick over and over again.
Gohan got smacked aside like a fly from a newspaper. That is not at all the same as being able to fight Beerus. He's swatted before even trying to throw a single punch. In FNF he's singled out yes because he's the strongest, but that's also because of the worf effect. Freeza attacking anyone else means less, and even then none of these people mean anything at this point in time. Oh wow Freeza beat Gohan, but oh wait he's a loser weakling at this point so really that's not at all threatening to Goku or Vegeta. His character is essentially a measuring tool for bad guys, which means jack shit since Gohan's level is minuscule at this point. The difference between Gohan and everybody else is that Gohan can learn and actually can fix his mistakes. Nobody else can as far as we know. Gohan has a happy fun time circle as a starter for a super easy super convenient power up that would allow em to get real strong real fast, without having to train for a long time or give up anything he does. But nah screw that, that would mean someone else can be useful.
It's not an exaggeration. His character is a cardboard cutout. All his accomplishments of his non fighting life are off screen. So the show tells us we shouldn't give a shit about that. His entire existence in Super is to worf effect. His entire point in both saga's is to get beaten up to make the enemy look good. That's his reason for being there. That's his reason for being a character in Super. It's not to grow or develop in any way. His point is to be the character who has to attempt to make the threat look good. Lack of training is something other characters such as Krillin have had too, and it's never been brought up or affected him at all (Mentioned in guides, and Krillin thinking of getting back into fighting). It's pointed out merely to poke fun of rather than mean anything of real merit. He loses more and more strength not as a relevant plot point, but to essentially have a whipping boy. Him being strongest after Goku and Vegeta doesn't mean shit because Gohan's level is irrelevant at this point. It meant something when Boo beat him up as Goku and Vegeta weren't that much stronger than him. So him being beat up there actually means something. He also tries to do better by training with the Z sword to fix his mistake. Also Gotenks is strongest after those two I'd say considering Gohan's regression. I'd say a fusion SSJ is stronger than an ordinary SSJ.
Wow what an amazing moment. "Daddy I can't do shit come save me please." I am so glad his "moment" was to be a glorified "Bat-Signal" so once all is said in done he can forget everything that has happened, and once again learn nothing, and then wait to be worf effected yet again next time. It's not like they can't just sense Freeza and teleport to him. They already can sense he's on a whole other level than anything beforehand so his battle power is plenty high. The only "good" thing about that moment is that it didn't turn into a typical rage boost, so Freeza could embarrass the guy even further. He had more of a moment beating Ginyu, and even then it's trouncing someone far beneath him that means nothing to Freeza anyways.
The people who don't have a problem commonly either hate the character so anything that happens to Gohan doesn't matter, or they hardly have much interest in the character so there's nothing to really care about. I can say the same about characters such as Chi Chi, Boo, and Roshi where the same rules apply to them as well. Heck I don't even think Beerus is utilized that well and he is a relevant character. Now that the new tournament is under way, they finally write the poor sap out of the story and hopefully keep it that way, since there's only so many times they can use him for this role before even they realize it's not very effective.
