Humans

Epsilon Grey · Post by **Epsilon Grey** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:25 pm

Too weak, in my opinion.

I am addressing this in my fic, Tycho, in what I think to be an interesting way.

We all know that Saiyans ascend through sheer physical measures. The more brutal the fight, the more intense the training, the more powerful they become. Oh, and I suppose strength of will factors into that too. We know Gohan went SSJ2 because of extreme emotion, but what about Goku going SSJ2 and 3? He must have pushed through to them by simply wanting it.

Humans, on the other hand, are relegated to the background in DBZ. Physically, they reach a very low-level cap, and I had to figure a way around that. So, if they can't do it physically, why not mentally? According to fandom science, human minds are much more powerful than Saiyan minds. I am expanding upon that theme, putting the humans through rigorus mental exercises that will eventually allow them to transced to a much more powerful state.

As for the Nameks...I don't know. More fusion, perhaps. I'll have to give it some more though.

Comments, questions, ideas?

Oh, and I have pretty much ignored the Dragon Balls any being above Kami, as I want to have death be more significant in my story.

--EG

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:01 pm

...Was this a post or a plug for your fic?

Humans are intentionally shown off as weak, as they are supposed to be an easy assignment for weaker low level saiyan babies to take out.

Nameks are strong though, possibly as strong as the Saiyans.

Concerning the mental stuff, I disagree. The Saiyans WANT to fight, and they know they can advance technologically and culturally through assimilation. It makes sense to annex entire planets then. Also, humans DO progress through mental discipline in the manga (and through spiritual discipline as well). For example: the effectiveness of Tenshinhan's Kikoho all throughout the storyline.

Epsilon Grey · Post by **Epsilon Grey** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:12 pm

...Was this a post or a plug for your fic?

Probably a combination of both.

How do I rephrase this...

Okay, how about this, humanity is well known for always having telepaths. There is no evidence that Saiyan telepaths existed. (granted, most that we say about Saiyans is speculation)

Now, you may mention the fact that Goku was lifting up the pyramids with his mind. To contend with this, I would say that he was using his ki in a pseudo-telekinetic manner. He was proecting his ki, as if an energy blast, but controlling it in a different way.

I would say that Saiyans excel in areas of target memory, tactical thinking, and other predatory aspects. They area warriror race, and this all progression, scientific and cultural, is geared towards enhancing their physical combative abilities. Saiyans also have trememdous strength of will, but this is not the same as mental power.

I feel that mental power is physical manipulation that differs from that of ki. So, by saying humans are stronger mentally, I mean that their minds can be trained to do more and different things than the minds of other races.

--EG

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:23 pm

Okay, how about this, humanity is well known for always having telepaths. There is no evidence that Saiyan telepaths existed. (granted, most that we say about Saiyans is speculation)

Actually in terms of DB the only form of human ESP is Uranai Baba's visions, which aren't even telepathy. As for Saiyans, Goku uses telepathy to eavesdrop on Kaio+Kami's discussion when he's on Namek.

Edit: Also on Namek, Goku reads Krillin's mind.

Epsilon Grey · Post by **Epsilon Grey** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:27 pm

True, but I was speaking of humanity outside of the Z universe. You know, in most sci-fi movies and books, there are always some telepaths doing something telepathic.

I'm just trying to find loopholes outside of the human's weakness.

As for Goku using telepathy, I'm going to have to use suspension of disbelief. I can't get everything exactly right if I want to have my story make sense. The average DBZ fan isn't as well-informed as the people here, anyway.

--EG

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:37 pm

Sounds like you're on to something good, I personally would like to see humans come back into the Z fold. What I like is that their's so much to work with Nameks, their a fan-fics writers dream.

Their powers are never fully explained, but their not only powerful but magical. Not to mention their was supposedly many clans (i.e. Kami, Dende, and Guru were 'dragon-types') Just imagine how many more special clans their could be.

Epsilon Grey · Post by **Epsilon Grey** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:47 pm

Hmm...what other clans are there? I sort of hit a wall with what to do with Piccolo, other than having him fuse with another Namek.

--EG

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:52 pm

Well, I don't think they ever really explain any of the clans beyond the 'dragon types', but you can speculate. Nail was a unique type of warrior, being the strongest of all the Nameks. You could probably assume their are warrior types, magic users, healers (Like Dende!) And of course the Super Nameks like Slugh.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:55 pm

The son of Katats and Saichoru were from the same clan. The son of Katats wen to Earth and became Kami+Piccolo. Saichoru ended up being the only survivor of Namek's cataclysm. That's why we only see one clan in DBZ: everybody else was offed, and the remaining nameks are Saichoru's kids. Just use a zodiak that has a dragon in it for clan puns.

Epsilon Grey · Post by **Epsilon Grey** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:03 pm

Um, I actually have no working knowledge of the Japanese language.

So those names confuse me.

But yes, I like the idea of the multiple clans. The planets in the Tycho system are inhabited by all the major races, so in my universe, those formally extitinct clans can live on.

00ber l33t. Now I just have to make them up. >,<

--EG

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:07 pm

It was intentionally done that we never know Piccolo+Kami's pre-defusion name. As a result, he was once referred to as "the son of Katats" by Saichoru. Saichoru is Guru's real name (Guru's a crappy dub name). People on these threads and elsewhere on the net will often refer to him as Saichoru or "The Grand Elder".

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:29 pm

[Note: Partial Shamless Plugging Ahead!]

Hmm... Never really gave other Namekian clans (other than the Super Nameks) much thought. I'll have to do that for a later Fanfic...

As for the Humans, I've got a few ideas of my own for a later Fanfic entitled New Humainty (I've only written a single chapter and none of it's up yet, it shall be some time before I begin to upload it). The idea follows along the lines of Tien's (sue me, I like that spelling) third eye. Human's can, through intense physical, spiritual, and mental training, unlock hidden powers.

A quick breakdown of my ideas: (All 'Transformations' are permanent new forms.)

Mental Supremacy: When a Human reaches the pinicle of mental ability a 'transformation' of sorts occurs and the third eye appears allowing for amplified mental ablities and the ability mix mental power and Ki when using attacks/abilites. i.e. The Kikiho. (Think about it, the triangular shape of the attack, and of the eye alignment. The two bottom cornes line up with the normal eyes and the top aligns with the 'minds eye'.)

Spiritual Supremacy: When a Human reaches the pincile of spirital ability a 'transformation' (not physically represented) occurs that allows for 'spiritial' powers. Those being, the ability to heal others, revive those who've only just died (like, within a minute), the ability to mix spiritual energy and Ki when using attacks/abilites, and a few others as well.

Physical Supremacy: When a Human reaches the pincile (and I know I've been spelling that wrong) of physcial ability a 'transformation' (not physically represented) occurs that allows for powers beyond those of the normal Human. Such powers include the ability to regenerate, the power to 'divide' one's self (i.e. Multi-form), and other such physical feats. These skills are not instantly known to exist but must be learned, sometimes a person will attain this 'transformation' and have no knowledge of it or of the abilites it entails.

Tri-Supremacy: When a Human attains all three of the previous states of being, all three 'transformations' a fourth occurs. Muscle mass increases, aura shifts to a blue color and looks much different than a normal aura, knowledge of how to use all skills attained through the transformations is gained, power is boosted dramtically as is speed, person gains full acess to all forms of 'energy' they possess (mental, Ki, and spiritual). Other abilites I've not thought of yet may also be gained.

So yeah, basically that's my idea. Tri-Supremacy = a Super Human if you will.

Epsilon Grey · Post by **Epsilon Grey** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:40 pm

Very interesting indeed.

I might have to cannibalize some of those ideas, giving you props, of course. =)

I already have the idea of the form for my transcendat humans. Blazing white aura, eyes become glowing sockets of energy, white hair, increased muscle mass, power level roughly equivalent to SSJ3. Only one human has achieved it thus far, but it still isn't enough to tackle the new foes...

I also am going to add a higher sub-stage of 'hyper human' and SSJ3. I'm going to ignore the abhorrent SSJ4 altogether.

Let me know when your story is up, you've piqued my interest.

--EG

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:43 pm

Heh. Your theory sounds a lot like the idea of "enlightenment" in Buddhism, so it is a good possibility.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 3:19 pm

Epsilon Grey wrote:Very interesting indeed.

I might have to cannibalize some of those ideas, giving you props, of course. =)

I already have the idea of the form for my transcendat humans. Blazing white aura, eyes become glowing sockets of energy, white hair, increased muscle mass, power level roughly equivalent to SSJ3. Only one human has achieved it thus far, but it still isn't enough to tackle the new foes...

I also am going to add a higher sub-stage of 'hyper human' and SSJ3. I'm going to ignore the abhorrent SSJ4 altogether.

Let me know when your story is up, you've piqued my interest.

--EG

Hey, go right ahead.

It'll be a bit before mine goes up as I've got... 3 or 4 still being worked on that I want to finish before adding anything new.

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:24 pm

In DBZ the only two average Humans, Kuririn and Yamcha, don't train hardcore like the saiyans and Nameks.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:41 pm

WHOA! Krillin and Yamcha are VERY FAR from the average human! The fact that they made it as finalists in ANY budoukai prooves this. Now make them AT LEAST stronger than a Low Level Saiyan (vs Nappa+Vegeta). That's an enormous difference. They still increase quite a bit, only most they're training is done "off-camera" since they're not main characters. And what's so special about Namekkian training? We never see ANY of their training methods EVER!

Post by **TripleRach** » Mon May 31, 2004 6:22 pm

The only Namekkian "training" we ever see is Piccolo floating in front of a waterfall.

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:14 pm

What I'm saying is in terms of Past the Freezer saga. We see Kuririn Blasting Kamehameha's into the Sea and Yamcha lifting weights in preparation of the Androids compared to Vegeta's training in 450x Earths Normal Gravity. Not to take anything away from these two but they are seriously outplayed in strenght after the Freezer saga. I mean the first message said they sucked I think it's maybe because they don't have the fighters blood to keep them on track with the rest of their friends but they are strong in the big picture but not compared to the Post- Freezer Villians, where they kinda leave things up to Goku.

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:17 pm

Yeah I guess i was wrong about Nameks, sorry. Piccolo seems to keep track by fusion.

Kanzenshuu

Humans

Humans

About Humans

Uh

Forgot to Mention