GT Pan's Power Level

[Nikkolas]

So I love me some GT Pan but like most DB fans out there, I have to wonder...just how strong is she?

I've been looking at a lot of lists lately, on here and elsewhere, and while I'm not actually interested in the numbers, unless you already have some, I am interested in trying to place her in the wider power ladder of the series.

Now the number most recently in my head is 114,000,000, which jives with my "general view" of her strength. I've always placed her on Final Form Freeza's level. What percentage of his power? I have no idea, I just thought that, while the topic of Android 19 and 20 as compared to Freeza seems nebulous, it's ridiculous to suggest they are weaker than his final form. To me, anyway. Pan of course handed Dr. Gero his ass ego if Gero is ~ Final Freeza, so is GT Pan. Of course that still leaves her in the sizable gap of between 30 and 120 million but it's better than nothing. I generally roll with this because it's respectable but not anything that I think others will feel obligated to challenge me on. It's high but not TOO high, ya know? Pan has a lot of detractors.

But I've been thinking...have I been undercutting the sweet little thing? Now I've met some people who take Trunks' line about her maybe being stronger than him very seriously because "he can sense ki!" but that just feels like it's ignoring the context of that scene too much. I have no problem thinking she and Base Trunks are about equal but better than SSJ Trunks? Ehhhh.

But apart from that, I was thinking of her showings in the Shadow Dragon Saga. And no I don't mean when she was oneshotted casually by Base Nuova Shenron. I'm talking about Naturon absorbing her and her Kamehameha against Oceanus. And I 'm sorry I don't know the Japanese names for them. Anyway, Naturon seemed to get a pretty beefy boost from absorbing Pan and Oceanus was actually kind of a threat, even if she wasn't anywhere near the level of Nuova, Eis and Syn.

And so I 'm thinking...maybe Final Form Freeza is low-balling her terribly? But if so, I have no idea where to place her.

Hence I come to you, o sages of Kanzenshuu. Well, the sages who actually care about GT, anyway. Do you have any input on this matter? I'd gratefully accept some help here.

[supercat]

Although we already have a thread for power levels, I'll go ahead and provide some input here; speaking from a logical standpoint, as well as taking BoG's indication of Frieza > Base Saiyans into consideration, I find it extremely farfetched to place her even a notch higher than the Frieza-busting SSJ Goku on Namek. Unless she was born with some unseen latent potential that magically emerges without any real training, she shouldn't be any higher than Final Form Frieza - 50%.

That said, since this is GT we're talking about here I guess anything is possible. Hypothetically speaking, Piccolo > all forms of Buu could very well have been the case since he did presumably take over a place consumed with Buu-tier fighters. So from that persepctive, and going off of how easily she trashed Gero, I'd say she has enough power at her disposal to turn Androids 17 and 18 into a pile of mechanical junk.

[Nikkolas]

I realize there's a thread for power levels but I wasn't really looking for numbers, just an evaluation of her strength and showings. Which of course also hinges on evaluating how strong other characters in GT are compared to Z.

[TheatreStyleKai]

I'm not sure what you could compare her battle power against, considering she doesn't have any serious fights throughout the entire series. If I were generous I would say that she has the same demi-saiyan potential that her father has, and since she trained with Goku for a little while when she was a small child she might be equivalent to Gohan during the Freeza arc.

[Lord Beerus]

Hmm. Let's see.

Pan was able to knock away General Rilldo with a single kick, and at that stage, Goku had commented that General Rilldo had a ki greater than Majin Boo. So it seem to me that Pan would be at the very least SSJ3 tier in terms of strength, and on the high end, stronger than Boohan. Then during the Super 17 arc, Pan was strong enough to be able to take #20 by surprise and restrain him, and even #20 seemed shocked at Pan being so strong for her age. So that would put Pan definitely as strong as Pre-ROSAT SSJ Goku and Vegeta during the Android/Cell arc, as well. Then in the Shadow Dragon arc, Pan was able to easily overpower Haze Shenron and deal enough damage to force Oceanus Shenron out of her Princess Oto form with a Kamehameha. This would further reinforce that Pan's strength seems to be on the higher end of the spectrum, at much stronger than Boohan tier level, considering that Base Goku also had trouble with Oceanus Shenron, too.

So, in conclusion, it seem to me that Pan's strength lies way beyond Boohan tier, and perhaps at the cusp of SSJ Vegetto tier. Crazy, ain't it?

[Cipher]

Hmm. Let's see.

Pan was able to knock away General Rilldo with a single kick, and at that stage, Goku had commented that General Rilldo had a ki greater than Majin Boo. So it seem to me that Pan would be at the very least SSJ3 tier in terms of strength, and on the high end, stronger than Boohan. Then during the Super 17 arc, Pan was strong enough to able to take #20 by surprise and restrain him, and even #20 seemed shocked at Pan being so strong for her age. So that would put Pan definitely as strong as Pre-ROSAT SSJ Goku and Vegeta during the Android/Cell arc, as well. Then in the Shadow Dragon arc, Pan was able to easily overpower Haze Shenron and deal enough damage to force Oceanus Shenron out of her Princess Oto form with a Kamehameha. This would further reinforce that Pan's strength seems to be on the higher end of the spectrum, at much stronger that Boohan tier level, considering that Base Goku also had trouble with Oceanus Shenron, too.

So, in conclusion, it seem to me that Pan's strength lies way beyond Boohan tier, and perhaps at the cusp of SSJ Vegetto tier. Crazy, ain't it?

That's why I ignore or re-interpret that Boo-comparison line. It just throws all the characters and everything we see out of whack.

How strong is Pan? As strong as Cell-arc base Gohan, based on nothing other than the fact that she's a base Saiyan and we don't have a lot to go on. But then, I ruffle even at the idea that Goku is significantly stronger than he is in the Boo arc.

[precita]

I think that Buu line was in referenced to Fat Buu anyway. Pan wouldn't even know about Super or Kid Buu...so the only way she'd get the reference is Fat Buu. Rilldo being around there isn't too unbelieveable.

[Cipher]

I think that Buu line was in referenced to Fat Buu anyway. Pan wouldn't even know about Super or Kid Buu...so the only way she'd get the reference is Fat Buu. Rilldo being around there isn't too unbelieveable.

I've always been down with that. It's not unbelievable that Pan downs him with a kick nor that Goku fights (though loses to) him as a Super Saiyan either.

[Hellspawn28]

If Pan was way above SSj level then how come she can't go SSj? She could have transform anytime that she wants, but didn't. I'm looking at things in a universe stand point of view.

[Sandubadear]

I have her as about the same as pre-RoSaT Gohan (Cell arc). Yeah yeah she kicks Rilldo, but in Z Trunks kicks Buu away, so only that is not an indicative.

[Nikkolas]

I have her as about the same as pre-RoSaT Gohan (Cell arc). Yeah yeah she kicks Rilldo, but in Z Trunks kicks Buu away, so only that is not an indicative.

Apparently, contrary to what I thought, there's no power level requirement for SSJ. Look at Bardock and them. So being this strong or that strong doesn't mean you'll become Super Saiyan.

Also given that Rildo is completely un-phased by Pan's next attack, I've never taken her knocking him down that seriously.

[MasterVampire]

Ginyu Force level shes at

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

That's why I ignore or re-interpret that Boo-comparison line. It just throws all the characters and everything we see out of whack.

So you're ignoring what the characters say because you don't like what they're saying?

I think that Buu line was in referenced to Fat Buu anyway. Pan wouldn't even know about Super or Kid Buu...so the only way she'd get the reference is Fat Buu. Rilldo being around there isn't too unbelieveable.

General Rild beat up Gohan who had been training since Z according to the GT Perfect Files, so General Rild being comparable to Fat Boo would mean Fat Boo > Base GT Gohan >/~ Ultimate Gohan > Evil Boo.

If Pan was way above SSj level then how come she can't go SSj? She could have transform anytime that she wants, but didn't. I'm looking at things in a universe stand point of view.

If Pan is below SS level, how did she manage to defeat someone stronger than the SS Goku fought Redjic?

If you're really using this point to argue, you're essentially saying she's weaker than Future Kid Trunks, who's over 50x weaker than Base Future Gohan.

I have her as about the same as pre-RoSaT Gohan (Cell arc). Yeah yeah she kicks Rilldo, but in Z Trunks kicks Buu away, so only that is not an indicative.

Not exactly a fair comparison as Fat Boo was off-guard when he was sent flying by Trunks, as opposed to Rild who was staring Pan right in the face.

[Hot Rod]

I'm pretty sure Dragon Ball GT's power level issue must be analyzed in its own logic/universe. Just like Dragon Ball Super's. Since they both do not have any coherence with the manga and the movies.

[Nikkolas]

That's why I ignore or re-interpret that Boo-comparison line. It just throws all the characters and everything we see out of whack.

So you're ignoring what the characters say because you don't like what they're saying?

Nope, I just realize what Trunks said was entirely context-based and in reference to what he just saw. Notice that Goku was every bit as shocked as Trunks, yet he knew Rildo was stronger than Buu. So Pan must be stronger than Buu, if "seeing is believing."

[Cetra]

Something like Super Vegeta Level at the most. That she can kick Rildo does not mean she is Boo level.

[Cipher]

That's why I ignore or re-interpret that Boo-comparison line. It just throws all the characters and everything we see out of whack.

So you're ignoring what the characters say because you don't like what they're saying?

Sure. Or more like what they're saying doesn't really bear out in the series.

GT is a lot more consistent if no one's made radical increases since the Boo arc, save maybe Goku (though not too huge). The Gohan stuff also makes much more sense if he's just fighting in base, having lost his ultimate power-up, hence the Super Saiyan transformations. The only quirk is that characters are more willing to start fights in base in GT.

[Hitiro]

Apparently, contrary to what I thought, there's no power level requirement for SSJ. Look at Bardock and them. So being this strong or that strong doesn't mean you'll become Super Saiyan.

Also given that Rildo is completely un-phased by Pan's next attack, I've never taken her knocking him down that seriously.

Even if you could consider the Episode of Bardock as canon that doesn't mean that there isn't a power level requirement. Goku was said to have surpassed Saiyan limits once he arrived on Namek. So between 40,000 and 90,000 would be Saiyan limits. We also know that Saiyan's get much stronger when they recover from near death. Bardock in this story was hit with Freeza's death ball and caught in a planets destruction. He awakes to being healed by a primitive race existing on his future home world. Given that then his battle power could have jumped up from the battle power that they claimed he almost had. Which was nearing King Vegeta's of 10,000. To put it into perspective. Goku received a 33x increase, according to the Daizenshuu 7 battle powers list. So if we say that Bardock had just hit 10,000 before his battle with Freeza(Which is possible, the people who healed him after his first battle in the story were saying he was close to the King then.) and then got a subsequent Zenkai he could be at least 330,000. Which is well beyond the "Saiyan limit" we are given in the manga.

Sure. Or more like what they're saying doesn't really bear out in the series.

GT is a lot more consistent if no one's made radical increases since the Boo arc, save maybe Goku (though not too huge). The Gohan stuff also makes much more sense if he's just fighting in base, having lost his ultimate power-up, hence the Super Saiyan transformations. The only quirk is that characters are more willing to start fights in base in GT.

It is actually understandable as to how Goku got up to SSJ3 tier in strength in his base form during GT. He had the perfect sparring partner. A character who had the potential to be that strong and only needed help in drawing it out. But the other characters, like you say, should not have made such radical increases since the Boo arc. It took 7 years of hard training for Goku and Vegeta to even surpass SSJ2 Gohan at the time of the Cell Games and they only managed to achieve that by a sliver as Piccolo is unsure if Vegeta had surpassed Gohan or not. So the power difference couldn't have been that much between them. And now we're supposed to believe that on top of struggling for 7 years to catch up to someone who is 2x-4x stronger that in the years leading up to the start of GT they got strength comparable to a 400x boost?

That seems pretty hard to believe considering they can't get that much stronger just by training. As Akira Toriyama states in one of the BOG interviews. The characters still get massively stronger the longer they fight. So eventually Goku would be able to catch up to Beerus if the fight continued. So yeah, it makes sense with Goku. Not with Vegeta or the other Saiyans.

[Skar]

So I love me some GT Pan but like most DB fans out there, I have to wonder...just how strong is she?

I have a friend from DBM that's a major fan of Pan. He likes to assume she inherited "mystic" Gohan's power so that her base form is already SSJ3 tier . It's not meant to be a serious theory just something he wanted to use for a fanfic to make her really strong.

[Speedster]

Simple. There is a scene in episode 50 with the 5 star shadow dragon electrocuting Goku and Pan. When the voltage reached 50% it was over for Pan. At 100% it was over for base Goku too. So Pan is half as strong as base Goku.