Is Dragonball the greatest cartoon ever?

[FortuneSSJ]

There's no other show that I love more than this one. So yeah, to me Dragon ball is the greatest.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's a fun show. But I wouldn't even rank it among the best anime. I consider Kenshin, FMA, and Inu-yasha to all be superior, and I'm currently watching Attack on Titan for the first time, and it's blowing Dragon Ball out of the water entirely.

Dragon Ball is cheap, fun entertainment. Which is perfectly fine, as that's all it was ever meant to be. It's no masterpiec.

To be fair, those anime aren't masterpieces of storytelling either.

I think this is actually (subjective! subjective! (kinda)) what gets me about other anime, particularly in the shonen demographic. They gesture at thematic and emotional weight, but in a way that tends to be heavy-handed and secondary enough that there's still an enormous gulf between them and more, uh, purely "literary" fiction. Just enough to make them frustrating, though it's great for the target demographic and I won't argue it doesn't make for a compelling single watch.

But as an adult reader/viewer, Toriyama's complete lack of pretension and balance of whimsy and drama is much more appealing.

Well, I personally like some good, over the top melodrama every now and then. My all time favorite literary character is Fyoder Karamazov, who is about as over the top melodramatic as you can get Any Dostoyevsky novel, anything by Victor Hugo, and Don Quixote are all full of over the top melodrama, and they are, in my opinion, the greatest works of literature ever written.

Also, being a historian, I like historical, pseudo-historical, and historically-based fiction. One of the reasons that Kenshin, AoT, and Inuyasha hit it off with me was because they give me a chance to fill in the gaps in the settings with my own knowledge, and I find that fun. Also, all the ones I mentioned have great soundtracks (not to detract from Kikuchi, but his style just isn't really my thing.) Dragon Ball doesn't do that for me, but, again, it's not trying to.

The biggest draw for me is if I am able to "lose myself" when taking part in the series. If I can be watching something, then realize that I'm hungry and it's 6 hours later. I just can't do that with Dragon Ball anymore.

Personally, I feel that I have just outgrown it. Which I'm not saying is a positive or a negative, only that I can no longer derive pleasure from watching it like I did in my childhood, and it doesn't quite measure up to standards I tend to look for as an adult. Not because of a lack of quality, but because it makes no attempts to match those particular standards. My tastes have changed as I've matured, and no longer really match what Dragon Ball strives to do.

[dbzfan7]

For me, no it's not. There's too much issues I have that I personally can't consider it my greatest cartoon ever. It's my favourite franchise, but not my favourite series. Greatest cartoons for me are things I can watch over and over again, and normally not have any real problem with them. Nothing bugging me too much, and being hungry for more and more content. Dragon Ball doesn't really do that since it was pretty flawed for me before, and now it's pretty bad and making me care less and less about the series. My best series are Avatar, Batman TAS/Beyond, Justice League, Megas XLR, Samurai Jack, and recently ONE PUNCH MAN!

[Lord Beerus]

For me, no it's not. There's too much issues I have that I personally can't consider it my greatest cartoon ever. It's my favourite franchise, but not my favourite series. Greatest cartoons for me are things I can watch over and over again, and normally not have any real problem with them. Nothing bugging me too much, and being hungry for more and more content. Dragon Ball doesn't really do that since it was pretty flawed for me before, and now it's pretty bad and making me care less and less about the series. My best series are Avatar, Batman TAS/Beyond, Justice League, Megas XLR, Samurai Jack, and recently ONE PUNCH MAN!

Speaking of Samurai Jack, did you know there's gonna be another season airing this year on Toonami? The hype is real! Jack is back!

[DoomieDoomie911]

Speaking of Samurai Jack, did you know there's gonna be another season airing this year on Toonami? The hype is real! Jack is back!

Even though I barely watched the original series, I'm really excited for this revival. I'm actually looking forward to the Powerpuff Girls revival, too. It's too bad that the original voice actresses aren't returning, though...

[Kuririn Fan]

Yes, Dragon Ball is the greatest anime of all times. Akira Toriyama is the greatest mangaka ever, all the others mangakas can just bow down to him and kiss his feet. I'm a fanboy, what answer did you expect?

[Low Tone G]

The greatest cartoon? No, not even close!
The best animated series! No, not even DBZ was!
The best anime/manga? One of the bests, arguably!

Still, I think it's the greatest in a sense like: "How damn wonderful is that nothing and nobody is perfect, just like the real world!"

Nothing really transmites this kind of message like Dragon Ball does!

[Kiyza]

You know, I definitely don't think Dragon Ball is "the greatest cartoon ever", but I do want to point out that most of the series that I hold in higher regard (and many other members, judging by what they've mentioned) are substantially shorter than it. A series with just flat out fewer episodes than Dragon Ball is less apt to make the sheer number of mistakes it does (especially with respect to things like pacing and filler). On top of that, it's one of the few series I've read/watched where I feel the premise doesn't get particularly stale over time. On the contrary, I think it often improves as time goes on, at least at some points during its long run. Most other series I've tried of similar length have failed to keep my interest past a certain point. Being entertaining for 42 volumes or 444 episodes is an impressive feat in my book, and I haven't read many comics or watched many cartoons -- Japanese or western -- that don't suffer from serious fatigue after about half that amount of content. It may not be the greatest cartoon ever, but it's one of the best there is at what it does.

[Kamiccolo9]

Dragon Ball doesn't really have "series fatigue," though. There's really no point where the series just feels like it's dragging on for everything after that.

Dragon Ball has "Arc Fatigue," I guess. Like, the Freeza Arc goes on waaaaaaay too long, but, after that, the pace picks up again and it's not dragging anymore. Same thing in the middle of the Buu Arc.

[Kiyza]

Dragon Ball doesn't really have "series fatigue," though. There's really no point where the series just feels like it's dragging on for everything after that.

Dragon Ball has "Arc Fatigue," I guess. Like, the Freeza Arc goes on waaaaaaay too long, but, after that, the pace picks up again and it's not dragging anymore. Same thing in the middle of the Buu Arc.

Uh, "serious fatigue", not "series fatigue". The point your making is pretty much my stance on it too. There are a few rough patches, like the Freeza fight and some filler if we're talking about the anime, but other than that, it's not too bad given its length.

[sintzu]

Being entertaining for 42 volumes is an impressive feat in my book, and I haven't read many comics or watched many cartoons -- Japanese or western -- that don't suffer from serious fatigue after about half that amount of content.

I agree with this, out of all the shows that I've seen (minus Batman) and currently watch, DB is the only one that never gets boring regardless of how many times I watch or read it which is very impressive when you look at how long it is which shows what a great writer Toriyama is even though his stories are simple compared to others.

[Kamiccolo9]

Dragon Ball doesn't really have "series fatigue," though. There's really no point where the series just feels like it's dragging on for everything after that.

Dragon Ball has "Arc Fatigue," I guess. Like, the Freeza Arc goes on waaaaaaay too long, but, after that, the pace picks up again and it's not dragging anymore. Same thing in the middle of the Buu Arc.

Uh, "serious fatigue", not "series fatigue". The point your making is pretty much my stance on it too. There are a few rough patches, like the Freeza fight and some filler if we're talking about the anime, but other than that, it's not too bad given its length.

"You're," not "your."

But yeah, basically.

[Nikkolas]

It's not Pinky & The Brain so I'm afraid not.

In terms of Anime, it still falls short for me because it's just too simplistic. I like a series with a bit more substance. I also happen to really like romance and DB's romances are...uh, underdeveloped, to put it mildly.

I agree with the earlier mentions of Kenshin being better and also throw in Yu Yu Hakusho. Yusuke Urameshi is a fantastic character and I wish more mangaka tried to clone him and not Goku.

[Lord Beerus]

I agree with the earlier mentions of Kenshin being better and also throw in Yu Yu Hakusho. Yusuke Urameshi is a fantastic character and I wish more mangaka tried to clone him and not Goku.

To be fair, Yusuke is kind of a clone of Goku himself, too. And Goku, as far as characters goes, it actually really handled quite well and a lot more complex and intriguing than people give him credit for.

[voltlunok]

I agree with the earlier mentions of Kenshin being better and also throw in Yu Yu Hakusho. Yusuke Urameshi is a fantastic character and I wish more mangaka tried to clone him and not Goku.

To be fair, Yusuke is kind of a clone of Goku himself, too. And Goku, as far as characters goes, it actually really handled quite well and a lot more complex and intriguing than people give him credit for.

I wouldn't say Yusuke is a clone or even kind of a clone, I'd more say he takes a little inspiration from Goku but other then that, he's overall his own being. Personality wise he's on a different spectrum then Goku and leans much closer to Vegeta. His journey is also very different then Goku in the sense he goes from giving zero shits about others (Save for Keiko.) to actually caring about his friends and fighting tooth and nail to protect them.

As for the actual topic, I think if you asked me this even when Dragon Ball was running back in the day I'd probably say no. I was enthralled by DBZ for sure but I was much more invested in Gundam and mecha, this got even worse when G Gundam started airing over in the US. While I think Dragon Ball is super entertaining, I can see that it has a lot of flaws, inconsistancies and overall things that hold it back from ranking much higher in my favorites. I think there are also shows that pull the Dragon Ball formula off but still can keep things interesting with more flushed out characters, Like One Piece, Fairy Tail and in some areas Bleach. This isn't to denote Dragon ball, it does entirely what it sets out to do and for that I love it but these days and even back then...I just wanted a bit more substance to things.

Also ya know...its not Swat Kats so...yeah. _{Omg someone make a fanfic of Beerus teaming up with the Swat Kats! Or even better! Beerus and Champa in T-Bone and Razor's pilot suits!}

[Lord Beerus]

I agree with the earlier mentions of Kenshin being better and also throw in Yu Yu Hakusho. Yusuke Urameshi is a fantastic character and I wish more mangaka tried to clone him and not Goku.

To be fair, Yusuke is kind of a clone of Goku himself, too. And Goku, as far as characters goes, it actually really handled quite well and a lot more complex and intriguing than people give him credit for.

I wouldn't say Yusuke is a clone or even kind of a clone, I'd more say he takes a little inspiration from Goku but other then that, he's overall his own being. Personality wise he's on a different spectrum then Goku and leans much closer to Vegeta. His journey is also very different then Goku in the sense he goes from giving zero shits about others (Save for Keiko.) to actually caring about his friends and fighting tooth and nail to protect them.

I dunno. They both share a few traits such as, both being very book dumb, loving a good fight and being very adept in battle. But I get your point.

[Nex Carnifex]

not for me. the end of evangelion i consider the greatest animated work of art.

[TheUltimateVegito]

His journey is also very different then Goku in the sense he goes from giving zero shits about others (Save for Keiko.) to actually caring about his friends and fighting tooth and nail to protect them.[/sub]

Not caring much for others to caring was part of Goku's journey.

[voltlunok]

His journey is also very different then Goku in the sense he goes from giving zero shits about others (Save for Keiko.) to actually caring about his friends and fighting tooth and nail to protect them.[/sub]

Not caring much for others to caring was part of Goku's journey.

No it wasn't. If that was the case then why does Goku go full hermit and abandon his friends for 5 years at EoZ just to train? Even in Dragon Ball he cares for his friends once they become actual friends. Goku already cared for his friends, he just cares for training more.

In Yusuke's case, he cared only for Keiko and himself, maybe his mother. But everyone else was a bother and a pain to him because that's how the world treated him and made these other people feel to him, as a nobodies whose only purpose is to make his life miserable. Over the course of the series though, he learns to actually care for his friends, why do you think Kuwabara 'dying' made him lose his shit the way he did? Why else would Genkai's death make things so personal with Toguro? Yusuke before he dies would not have given a crap but Yusuke by then does cause he's gone through a major journey.

Anyways thats going mildly off topic. If you wanna continue the discussion, PMs are there but I'd rather not flood the thread with a bunch of Yu Yu Hakasho talk. This is still Kanzenshuu, so dragon ball!

[TheUltimateVegito]

If you wanna continue the discussion, PMs are there

To the PMs then!