Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:38 am

dbgtFO wrote:My tier list, that only covers the Z part of the story and the high tiers in DB Super:
Spoiler:
What about Saiyan Beyond God Goku and Vegeta?
Spoiler:
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:48 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:My tier list, that only covers the Z part of the story and the high tiers in DB Super:
Spoiler:
What about Saiyan Beyond God Goku and Vegeta?
They are unconcious inside the Staff of Spirit and Time, dreaming about how they are as strong as SSG in base and how Freeza came back stronger and a whole lot of other nonsense :thumbup:

Okay joking aside, they should be in the same tier as SSG Goku and maybe with Final Form Freeza at the bottom of that tier.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:56 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Base Goku (Buu/BOG) - 100 million
SSJ1 - 5 billion
SSJ2 - 10 billion
SSJ3 - 40 Billion
Gohan (Mystic/Ultimate/Chou/whatever) - 400 Billion
Super Vegetto - 160 trillion.
Base GT Goku - 40 billion
SSJ1 - 2 trillion
SSJ2 - 4 trillion
SSJ3 - 16 trillion
SSJ4 - 160 trillion
My nitpicks:
  • Why do you have SS4 being 10x SS3? The GT Perfect Files and the show say that it is essentially a potential unlock. Unless you think Goku was exactly 1/10th of his utmost limit in the Baby arc?
  • Why do you have Base GT Goku weaker than Ultimate Gohan? Gohan was said to have trained in between Z and GT and Goku in base was still stronger than Gohan. GT Base Goku > Base Gohan > Ultimate Gohan
  • Why do you have Super Vegetto equal to SS4 Goku? Super Vegeta-Baby 1 was stated to 1.) Have obtained the greatest of Saiyan power after transforming, and 2.) Be the greatest Ki ever felt by Goku.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by supercat » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:14 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
supercat wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:If you don't have any problem with paring Shisami with Cell Jr., it shouldn't baffle you placing Ginyu Force at the same category, if we are talking about Dragon Ball Super. I'm not trying to sound antagonistic here or bashing Dragon Ball Super, but you are just not paying attention to how the dialogue is handled in this case. You should consider reading the lines again.

Gohan's powerlevel in Dragon Ball Super is another headache, but I guess there is no tangible thing saying he is definetely weaker or stronger than when he defeated Cell. He is just definetely weaker than Vegeta when he fought Boo, because Vegeta is said to be the strongest Saiyan after Goku back then.
Placing Ginyu Force in the same realm of power as Cell Jr... Yeah, I could see that this discussion really isn't going anywhere. Again, Tagoma surpassing Ginyu doesn't magically gift the latter with some insane power boost.

That dialogue that you keep resorting to over and over again, apparently didn't mention a specific gap between Tagoma and Ginyu. Why should the former barely be above the latter for it to make sense? Is it because Sorbet didn't drop Freeza's name as a benchmark? Do you really think that he would have the courage to even do such a thing?

Definitely weaker than Vegeta when he fought Buu... And how do you know that Vegeta didn't get stronger after the Buu arc? Do you really think the prideful prince of Saiyans just sat around all day doing nothing?
Freeza is implied to be stronger than Ginyu Force. If Sorbet didn't use Freeza as benchmark, then of course he doesn't think Tagoma hasn't surpassed Freeza. This has nothing to do with having courage to say it, this is about what Sorbet states. Any other meaning behind that line only exists in speculation.

And Dragon Ball Super shows an occasion where Vegeta trains under 150G gravity before Beerus went to Earth, but this training's stuff happens after Vegeta analizes his strength in Boo Arc. He hasn't been showed training since then, he was spending time with his family.
Um no... just no... This discussion is honestly redundancy at its finest. I don't know how many different ways I could elaborate but have you forgotten that there was nothing specific pertaining to the amount of power Tagoma obtained through training? Or how badly he surpassed the Ginyu Force?

Why does Tagoma have to be barely above the Ginyu's for that statement to be valid?

Oh then I guess Piccolo training is also all bullshit since we never saw him training on screen right? I mean do you really need to watch 10 episodes of Vegeta shadow boxing in the gravity room to accept that he's grown substantially stronger?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:13 am

You are suggesting I'm forcing a maximum on Tagoma's powerlevel, this is not what I'm saying. The statement isn't invalidated by anything in the story, it just establishes a minimum to the powerlevel Tagoma has acquired. I don't care to speculate the amount of difference.

For reference, the manga shows Piccolo doing meditation on God's temple, but then there is nothing suggesting he got substantially stronger since he fought Cell. Vegeta in another hand is one of the main characters. When he trains or gets stronger other characters or even himself point that. In the Episode #2 of Dragon Ball Super, Vegeta is frustrated he was waisting time while Goku was ahead of him.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by supercat » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:29 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:You are suggesting I'm forcing a maximum on Tagoma's powerlevel, this is not what I'm saying. The statement isn't invalidated by anything in the story, it just establishes a minimum to the powerlevel Tagoma has acquired. I don't care to speculate the amount of difference.

For reference, the manga shows Piccolo doing meditation on God's temple, but then there is nothing suggesting he got substantially stronger since he fought Cell. Vegeta in another hand is one of the main characters. When he trains or gets stronger other characters or even himself point that. In the Episode #2 of Dragon Ball Super, Vegeta is frustrated he was waisting time while Goku was ahead of him.
WOW! You finally agree with me! Now that you've come to the conclusion that the gap between Tagoma and the Ginyus could hypothetically be any amount, perhaps we could both agree that the former could well be in the same realm of power as some of the top contenders of the Cell Games.

Um... you do know that even Trunks and Goku acknowledged Piccolo's massive increase during the Cell arc right? Regardless, he was well beyond Frieza at the time, so there's absolutely no way he fell into the same trash can as Zarbon and Dodoria.

So just because Vegeta was unhappy about Goku surpassing him (something that he's always whined about, even during times when he himself had undergone a major power boost), I'm supposed to believe that he stayed the same? Has it ever crossed your mind that he won't stop crying until he reaches the top, regardless of where he's at?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:53 pm

Being objective I don't think Vegeta is any different from when he fought Boo when he refleted on his famous goal about surpassing Goku. You can argue about how strong he got when he fought Beerus, because during his training he aparently developed a new ceiling for his strength, surpassing even SS3 Goku when he got mad.
dbgtFO wrote:My tier list, that only covers the Z part of the story and the high tiers in DB Super.
May I make some changes? I will try to use just the best showed version of each character.
Spoiler:
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:39 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Why do you have SS4 being 10x SS3? The GT Perfect Files and the show say that it is essentially a potential unlock. Unless you think Goku was exactly 1/10th of his utmost limit in the Baby arc?
Just because it draws out dormant powers doesn't mean that it doesn't give a stable increase for everyone. SS3 was said to draw out dormant powers as well, yet it still gives a stable increase for everyone.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:23 pm

Why does everyone believe that goku as a SS3 is 4x his SS2 self (except guidebooks) ? It makes no sense IMO for SS3 to be THAT much boost on his SS2 level. All other multipliers are justified, but this one isn't.


Hell, fat buu was only 2x SS2 adult gohan, who was MUCH weaker than Majin vegeta, putting fat buu at around 1.5 - 1.8x majin vegeta.
And for gotenks, it is even bigger problem, but gotenks doesn't follow the multipliers anyways.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by manwolf » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:40 pm

This is my power list based on the theory that god ki is some kind of background ki or other kind of fi diferent of the rest of the ki.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Darkron2151 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:55 pm

apex_pretador wrote:Why does everyone believe that goku as a SS3 is 4x his SS2 self (except guidebooks) ? It makes no sense IMO for SS3 to be THAT much boost on his SS2 level. All other multipliers are justified, but this one isn't.


Hell, fat buu was only 2x SS2 adult gohan, who was MUCH weaker than Majin vegeta, putting fat buu at around 1.5 - 1.8x majin vegeta.
And for gotenks, it is even bigger problem, but gotenks doesn't follow the multipliers anyways.
Why is "SSJ3 = SSJ2 x4" that hard to believe? For one thing, "Fat Buu = 2x SSJ2 Gohan" isn't fact. That was just the amount of energy needed to awaken Buu. Nothing is said that that was Fat Buu's maximum power as a whole. Heck, Good Buu's decent performance against Pure Buu implies otherwise, and he's supposed to be a fraction of Fat Buu. You can believe that Fat Buu is barely 2x Majin Vegeta if you want, but making it a difinitive fact is not justified in the slightest.

Also, Gotenks doesn't follow the multipliers? Since when? If anything, for Goku's confidence in the boys' fusion to hold any weight, he must have the same SSJ multipliers. If he got a weaker boost than normal, Goku's statement can be completely dismissed. The only "problem" that can be seen is that you don't want SSJ3 Gotenks to be many times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and while I don't like it either, it's really the only way I can see it as consistent to the manga and the guidebooks.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:44 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:My tier list, that only covers the Z part of the story and the high tiers in DB Super.
May I make some changes? I will try to use just the best showed version of each character.
Spoiler:
I like that. Nice and neat!
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:45 pm

Darkron2151 wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:Why does everyone believe that goku as a SS3 is 4x his SS2 self (except guidebooks) ? It makes no sense IMO for SS3 to be THAT much boost on his SS2 level. All other multipliers are justified, but this one isn't.


Hell, fat buu was only 2x SS2 adult gohan, who was MUCH weaker than Majin vegeta, putting fat buu at around 1.5 - 1.8x majin vegeta.
And for gotenks, it is even bigger problem, but gotenks doesn't follow the multipliers anyways.
Why is "SSJ3 = SSJ2 x4" that hard to believe? For one thing, "Fat Buu = 2x SSJ2 Gohan" isn't fact. That was just the amount of energy needed to awaken Buu. Nothing is said that that was Fat Buu's maximum power as a whole. Heck, Good Buu's decent performance against Pure Buu implies otherwise, and he's supposed to be a fraction of Fat Buu. You can believe that Fat Buu is barely 2x Majin Vegeta if you want, but making it a difinitive fact is not justified in the slightest.

Also, Gotenks doesn't follow the multipliers? Since when? If anything, for Goku's confidence in the boys' fusion to hold any weight, he must have the same SSJ multipliers. If he got a weaker boost than normal, Goku's statement can be completely dismissed. The only "problem" that can be seen is that you don't want SSJ3 Gotenks to be many times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and while I don't like it either, it's really the only way I can see it as consistent to the manga and the guidebooks.
Why wouldn't Fat Boo be a little more than 2x Gohan? It's pretty much a direct statement of Boo's power or else there wouldn't be any point in showing it. We didn't need to see the counter to know that the energy from Gohan was immense.
It's the basic hyping of the villain Mr.Toriyama uses another examples are: Piccolo Daimao less than half line, Goku's half-power display after coming out from the RoSaT which amazes everybody and still at full power it wouldn't be enough for Cell. It's same but instead of being a spoken statement, it's visual.

Mr.Boo did perform better than Vegeta. But the performance hasn't decent, he can see in one panel Pure Boo defending only with his legs and with his arms crossed, showcasing is superiority. Pure Boo was playing with him.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:08 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Just because it draws out dormant powers doesn't mean that it doesn't give a stable increase for everyone.
So every character in the series has the same amount of potential/dormant power?
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:SS3 was said to draw out dormant powers as well, yet it still gives a stable increase for everyone.
That's only if one choses to abide by the Daizenshuu.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Nikkolas » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:20 am

This really isn't deserving of a new thread but I figure you guys can help me.

Itwas this forum I first heard the "Super Vegetto is perhaps stronger than SSJ4 Goku" bit from. But more recent posts say this is from some Chinese comic and isn'treally usable? Can anyone enlighten me on this matter?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:12 am

Darkron2151 wrote:Why is "SSJ3 = SSJ2 x4" that hard to believe? For one thing, "Fat Buu = 2x SSJ2 Gohan" isn't fact. That was just the amount of energy needed to awaken Buu. Nothing is said that that was Fat Buu's maximum power as a whole.
It was stated that gohan's energy alone can revive majin buu at half power, not just half fill the meter.
Heck, Good Buu's decent performance against Pure Buu implies otherwise, and he's supposed to be a fraction of Fat Buu.
Why is he supposed to be weaker than fat buu? Fat buu is not stronger than kid buu, who was also only a part of him.
Super buu is essentially good buu + bad buu, and he's stronger than SS3 goku. Fat buu has high dormant power, but it doesn't mean he's stronger than kid buu or mr buu.

You can believe that Fat Buu is barely 2x Majin Vegeta if you want, but making it a difinitive fact is not justified in the slightest.
Majin vegeta also was able to hurt fat buu a little, that alone makes him more than half his power. Obviously someone less than half your power can't hut you (unless you specifically lower your guard).
Also, Gotenks doesn't follow the multipliers? Since when? If anything, for Goku's confidence in the boys' fusion to hold any weight, he must have the same SSJ multipliers.

SS gotenks to be 40-50x stronger than base gotenks is what i can't believe.
SS gotenks is around SS3 goku, while base gotenks is stronger than piccolo. No way in hell is SS3 goku 50x piccolo from CG, let alone buu arc piccolo.

. The only "problem" that can be seen is that you don't want SSJ3 Gotenks to be many times stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and while I don't like it either, it's really the only way I can see it as consistent to the manga and the guidebooks.
Consistent? lol.
Kid buu is close to SS3 goku in power, not much power advantage. Buff buu was significantly stronger than even super buu, & was essentially buu + S kaioshin. S kaioshin was weaker than kid buu. So, it puts buff buu at less than 2x kid buu, & super buu / SS3 gotenks at less than 2x SS3 goku.
Remember that SS3 goku & SS gotenks are in same realm of power.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Darkron2151 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:10 pm

apex_pretador wrote: It was stated that gohan's energy alone can revive majin buu at half power, not just half fill the meter.
No it wasn't. All that was said was that Gohan's energy restored almost half the energy needed. Nothing is said about Buu's power directly. It was insinuating that the energy was specifically for hatching Buu.
Why is he supposed to be weaker than fat buu? Fat buu is not stronger than kid buu, who was also only a part of him.
Super buu is essentially good buu + bad buu, and he's stronger than SS3 goku. Fat buu has high dormant power, but it doesn't mean he's stronger than kid buu or mr buu.
Because it was stated that Good Buu and Evil Buu were the products of Fat Buu splitting, with the latter getting the majority of the power.
Majin vegeta also was able to hurt fat buu a little, that alone makes him more than half his power. Obviously someone less than half your power can't hut you (unless you specifically lower your guard).
Are you talking about the time Vegeta thrashed Buu a bit, then he got up like it was nothing, and then proceeded to power up due to anger and then kicked the crap out of Vegeta? If so, that implies the exact opposite of what you're insinuating. Buu was toying with Vegeta, plain and simple.
SS gotenks to be 40-50x stronger than base gotenks is what i can't believe.
SS gotenks is around SS3 goku, while base gotenks is stronger than piccolo. No way in hell is SS3 goku 50x piccolo from CG, let alone buu arc piccolo.
Unless Base Gotenks isn't actually stronger than Piccolo and they only acted like that for the comical buildup for the scene afterward. When Goku saw the boys' SSJ power, he thought that if they did fusion and got the same boost like the one he saw in the afterlife, they could beat Buu. If SSJ Gotenks gets a weaker fusion boost than Base Gotenks or any other Fusion, Goku's statements and confidence on how the fusion would beat Buu are far less dependable, to the point of being sheer dumb luck.
Consistent? lol.
Kid buu is close to SS3 goku in power, not much power advantage. Buff buu was significantly stronger than even super buu, & was essentially buu + S kaioshin. S kaioshin was weaker than kid buu. So, it puts buff buu at less than 2x kid buu, & super buu / SS3 gotenks at less than 2x SS3 goku.
Remember that SS3 goku & SS gotenks are in same realm of power.
That's assuming that Buu's absorptions work with additions for the kaioshins. Which we know already that anything Kaioshin related doesn't mix well for Buu, but nowhere is it stated indefinitely that it's as simple as addition, as Dai Kaioshin actually made him weaker.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:35 am

SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:So every character in the series has the same amount of potential/dormant power?
No, but that doesn't mean that their dormant powers can't grow along with the user's regular power. SS3/4 aren't the only forms related to dormant powers:
  • Oozaru was implied to be related with dormant powers in the Piccolo Daimao arc.
  • Super Saiyan drawing out dormant powers would explain why Goku went from almost having no power to almost being at full power against Freeza, since that would mean that SS added power to his current base power, it didn't amplify it like techniques (Kamehameha, Kaio-ken, etc) do.
  • Super Saiyan 2 was triggered by Gohan's hidden powers in Cell arc.
  • Super Saiyan 3 was stated to draw out the user's dormant powers to their utmost limits.
  • Rou Kaioshin's ritual drew out Gohan's dormant powers far beyond their limits, making his SS forms useless & making him far stronger than he would have been as a SS3 when he became Ultimate Gohan.
  • When Goku became a Golden Oozaru, it was stated that his dormant powers had been awakened.
  • Super Saiyan 4 was also stated to draw out the user's power to their utmost limits and gave the user power far greater than SS3 or Ultimate.
  • Vegeta, apparently, temporarily used a part of his Super Saiyan God dormant powers against Beerus in Super when he got angry (he became stronger than Super Vegetto!), and he drew all of them out through Whis' intense special "ki control" training (since he can become a Super Saiyan Blue without having become a Super Saiyan God first).
The Oozaru & Super Saiyan forms draw out dormant powers*, yet we know that Oozaru, SS, SS2, and SS3 specifically give stable increases (x10, x50, x100, and x400 base respectively). So, it appears that the user's dormant powers grow along with his regular power.

*I don't think Super Saiyan Grade 2 & Super Saiyan Grade 3 draw out dormant powers. These forms fill the user's muscles with ki, so I believe that this amplifies the power that is already there instead of drawing out even more power.
That's only if one choses to abide by the Daizenshuu.
Why should we choose? We know that Saiyan Halflings have greater dormant powers than full-blooded Saiyans. We know that SS3 hits a limit, and that Ultimate goes beyond that limit. Yet Gohan, who appears to still be Ultimate in GT, can now become a Super Saiyan & get stronger after training, and Goku & Vegeta, who are full-blooded Saiyans, are even stronger than Gohan, without the use of SS3. And Gohan can hypothetically turn into a Super Saiyan 4 and become even stronger (according to Dragon Ball Heroes).

Rou Kaioshin's ritual apparently couldn't touch the SS4 & SSG dormant powers, like the Super God Water couldn't touch the full Oozaru dormant powers or any of the SS dormant powers, even though it could supposedly draw out all of the dormant powers of the one who drank it. Saichouro's power couldn't draw out all of Gohan's hidden powers, or his Oozaru/SS dormant powers. And Babidi's magic couldn't touch Vegeta's SS3 & beyond dormant powers, even though it was supposed to draw out the user's dormant power beyond their limits.

The Saiyans are said to have bottomless dormant powers after all, so this would explain why their dormant powers are so hard to draw out. Up until Freeza arc, the Saiyans have been making monstrous gains through training or near-death power-ups. Vegeta said he reached his limits, and then he became a Super Saiyan. Neither of the Super Saiyans made monstrous gains again, until they started training in order to achieve Super Saiyan Full Power. After that, Goku said that he didn't have any room for improvement & that getting again inside the RoSaT would be useless for him, and the gains he made after 7 years in the AfterLife, 4 years on Earth, 4 months with Whis, and 3 years inside the RoSaT (if he is still weaker than Beerus) prove that he was correct. SS3 was supposed to be the limit, and Ultimate went beyond that limit. But then Golden Oozaru & SS4 proved that there was a limit beyond that limit. And then SSG proved that there is even more than that, not to mention SSB.

So, it appears that Saiyans have multiple limits in their dormant powers. It appears that their base level hits a limit** when they become strong enough to turn SS, which is why the near-death power-ups stop at that point. Then by mastering Super Saiyan, that limit is broken & their base power grows even more, but stops at another limit**. Then by going beyond SS, up to the final form beyond SS, which is SS3, brings the Saiyan to another limit. Then by going through a different line of transformations through Oozaru, and by reaching the final form of that line, they stop at yet another limit. And then they can go past that limit through SSG & absorbing its power, or through intense special "ki control" training that draws out the power of a SSG, and go even further with SSB.

**In these cases, by "limit", I don't mean that they can't get stronger at all anymore, but that it's much harder than it was before to become stronger. That's why the base Goku before SSG never surpassed their SS self from Freeza arc, Chaozu couldn't keep up with Tenshinhan after Freeza arc, Tenshinhan couldn't keep up with Kuririn after Freeza arc, Kuririn couldn't keep up with the base Saiyans after Freeza arc, and Piccolo couldn't keep up with the Super Saiyans after they mastered the form. They all reached their limits.


At least that's my opinion on this, based on all of the available information.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:54 am

Darkron2151 wrote:
apex_pretador wrote: It was stated that gohan's energy alone can revive majin buu at half power, not just half fill the meter.
No it wasn't. All that was said was that Gohan's energy restored almost half the energy needed. Nothing is said about Buu's power directly. It was insinuating that the energy was specifically for hatching Buu.
It was stated that gohan's energy is half of the power required to awake majin buu ANNNND majin buu will be at half power if he is awaken with gohan's power alone.
Why is he supposed to be weaker than fat buu? Fat buu is not stronger than kid buu, who was also only a part of him.
Super buu is essentially good buu + bad buu, and he's stronger than SS3 goku. Fat buu has high dormant power, but it doesn't mean he's stronger than kid buu or mr buu.
Because it was stated that Good Buu and Evil Buu were the products of Fat Buu splitting, with the latter getting the majority of the power.
It is hard to understand this , let alone explain. But the evil buu was like having dormant power of fat buu, & fat buu couldn't use his power to his fullest due to fat kaioshiin suppressing his evil power. Super buu is just fat buu using his power to his fullest, with evil buu in control. He was stronger than SS3 goku. Super buu was evil buu + good buu , so another absorption.
This stuff is a bit confusing,
Majin vegeta also was able to hurt fat buu a little, that alone makes him more than half his power. Obviously someone less than half your power can't hut you (unless you specifically lower your guard).
Are you talking about the time Vegeta thrashed Buu a bit, then he got up like it was nothing, and then proceeded to power up due to anger and then kicked the crap out of Vegeta? If so, that implies the exact opposite of what you're insinuating. Buu was toying with Vegeta, plain and simple.
I'm not saying buu wasn't playing with vegeta, but still, vegeta was strong enough to hurt him a little. Not that vegeta was anywhere near him, but he was strong enough to trouble him with his strongest attacks (see cui vs vegeta for example)
SS gotenks to be 40-50x stronger than base gotenks is what i can't believe.
SS gotenks is around SS3 goku, while base gotenks is stronger than piccolo. No way in hell is SS3 goku 50x piccolo from CG, let alone buu arc piccolo.
Unless Base Gotenks isn't actually stronger than Piccolo and they only acted like that for the comical buildup for the scene afterward. When Goku saw the boys' SSJ power, he thought that if they did fusion and got the same boost like the one he saw in the afterlife, they could beat Buu. If SSJ Gotenks gets a weaker fusion boost than Base Gotenks or any other Fusion, Goku's statements and confidence on how the fusion would beat Buu are far less dependable, to the point of being sheer dumb luck.
1. Piccolo & all others were astonished by base gotenks' power.
2. Everyone acted like base gotenks was really the strongest of all among them.
3. Piccolo was unable to catch base gotenks, who he knew couldn't beat buu.

The gap must be there, even if not big. Base gotenks might be weaker than majin vegeta, but not piccolo.
Consistent? lol.
Kid buu is close to SS3 goku in power, not much power advantage. Buff buu was significantly stronger than even super buu, & was essentially buu + S kaioshin. S kaioshin was weaker than kid buu. So, it puts buff buu at less than 2x kid buu, & super buu / SS3 gotenks at less than 2x SS3 goku.
Remember that SS3 goku & SS gotenks are in same realm of power.
That's assuming that Buu's absorptions work with additions for the kaioshins. Which we know already that anything Kaioshin related doesn't mix well for Buu, but nowhere is it stated indefinitely that it's as simple as addition, as Dai Kaioshin actually made him weaker.
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Even if you go by super buu, he is evil buu + fat buu. So, this absorption also means he's around 2x SS3 goku at best. Again, the only absorption which had unique effects on buu was fat kaioshin, & nothing was stated for S kaioshin absorption to be any different.
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Hugo Boss
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:30 am

Nikkolas wrote:This really isn't deserving of a new thread but I figure you guys can help me.

Itwas this forum I first heard the "Super Vegetto is perhaps stronger than SSJ4 Goku" bit from. But more recent posts say this is from some Chinese comic and isn't really usable? Can anyone enlighten me on this matter?
This tidbit comes from a description presented in Dragon Ball GT TV Special Film Animation Comic.
Spoiler:
If it's a legitimate source, it's up to you to consider or not, but I believe you could call it official content.

My opinion, it's a direct comparison between the power Goku gets when he transforms to SS4 and when he merges with Vegeta using Potara.
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